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Trying to catch the wind....

janet Smith

pro member
IMG_0089AcleanSS001.jpg


This isn't an accident, it was a deliberate attempt to catch the movement and texture of the seed heads in the garden, I shot through delicate Miscanthus grass which was blowing strongly in the wind to the woody dried out stems behind, my question is does it work?
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Hi Janet
Asher did point me to this abandonned post as wind is par of my family!

I must admit that I know better the wind when it is over the sea than when it blows on fields, grass and the nice shepherdess…

On different subjects I've also been working on different dof with the same subject/frame and I wonder what would have brung different if you had shot (also) the foreground in focus and BG oof…

From your image I see poetry, nice framing and colors, but I don't feel the wind…
Why that? perhaps because wether it is on earth or on the sea, the wind does bring movement and one can't see any movement nor motion in this image (and yes, for me it is an image and not a pict).

When one look precisely and longer to it, the blurred and bent foreground could give the feel of movement, but then my brain is seeking for the whole grass/seed to undergo the forces of the wind.

You have started a very interesting but difficult subject. I like the idea… please try again, do experiment and research, I'll watch! and comment sooner than now;-)

Thanks for sharing and give your pardon OPFers to have forgotten this too old thread.

Very kind regards
Sometimes French sailors do like English fellows (but that's rare! since Trafalgar…;-)
 
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Charlotte Thompson

Well-known member
Hi Janest-

sorry not to come to this interesting post-please forgive my lateness-maybe you could add late fees on to us-

I do" feel" movement in this and it's hard to descrbe- it seems the rushing of the wind comes from behind the delicate flowers in the front-for me it's as if "they are standing still in the wind" my interpetation
I do love those tiny fragile flowers in the -how strong nature has made them agaisnt a wind force-
it is a very good imagination to try for this! I would keep trying to find the force again-what a great idea!

Charlotte-
 
Hi Janet,

This attempt seems very subtle. I would not have known that you were trying to represent the movement. Is it too late to try again? Usually, movement results in the flexible bits being out of focus and bent out of position. That is not what I see here. It is the background that is out of focus or moving. I'll bet that was your intent, but it is not obvious.

-Nat
 

DLibrach

New member
While 'wind' might not be the first thing that jumps to my mind, it is absolutely a wonderful image. It could open a whole conversation about seeing past what's right in front of you to the world beyond. Very creative and effective use of depth of field and I love the softness of the tones.

-David
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
IMG_0089AcleanSS001.jpg


This isn't an accident, it was a deliberate attempt to catch the movement and texture of the seed heads in the garden, I shot through delicate Miscanthus grass which was blowing strongly in the wind to the woody dried out stems behind, my question is does it work?

Janet,

My delay in commenting was due to not being sure how best one might show this energy in the seed heads.

Overlaying several sequential exposures: My thoughts are to light the front separately with flash so one can catch the delicate structures without building up the background. I'd then take a series of pictures with a rapid strobe to catch the movement and then overlay selectively with a careful movement blur, if that's not in your picture. You can choose first or second curtain flash to see how best you can get a feeling of movement.

The background moving will decrease one's ability to discern movement in the fine structures in the front. I'd worry about the background later.

Using one exposure and then photoshopping: Alternatively try getting a clear picture of the foreground with flash and wide aperture so background is not signifcant. Then make a copy and shift the positions of the seeds as if blown by the wind. A simple tiny rotation might be a good start and then meticulously distort the positions of each key seed in a separate layer in Edit,Transform, Warp or Distort. Then motion blur the adjusted layer.

That's it for now,

Asher
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
Hello Janet; I have also worked on similar compositions using plants, grasses, and other natural stuff so I like your direction and encourage you to pursue it. This particular image, to my eye is not as strong and image as I suspect that scene could provide you. Your color contrasts and exposure are ok, although you'll want to experiment a bit more. I very much like the back-handed diagonal striations that the out-of-focus foreground weeds create although it somewhat overwhelms the right half of the image. Color contrasts can be critical in guiding the eye through these types of images. And, of course, FORM selection and definition is alway critical, as the eye wants to immediately inventory familiar forms.

But what I think needs reworking/reshooting here is the mixture of sharp and dull focus. In my experience, and again to my eye, If anything is near crisp focus you have to let the eye resolve it completely. Otherwise it makes the entire scene look like a mistake or dud. Specifically, that dry flower top in the upper right of the image is partially obscured and makes the entire scene appear more accidental than intentional.

Keep going with this! Choose your scenes and focal lengths very carefully. Take your time when shooting, preferably with a tripod. Pay special attention to focus and contrasts. Forget WHAT you're shooting and just look at the viewfinder image as a painting. And expect to make ALOT of exposures before your get one keeper.

-------
Here are a few of mine (which I've actually not shown online) that might give you some encouragement. I look mostly for still compositions but will take what I can get.

medium.jpg
medium.jpg
medium.jpg
 

janet Smith

pro member
When one look precisely and longer to it, the blurred and bent foreground could give the feel of movement, but then my brain is seeking for the whole grass/seed to undergo the forces of the wind.

You have started a very interesting but difficult subject. I like the idea… please try again, do experiment and research, I'll watch! and comment sooner than now;-)

Thanks for sharing and give your pardon OPFers to have forgotten this too old thread.


Hi Nic

This was one of my first attempts now that winter is upon us to try and catch the seed heads and wind, this is an unusual shot I think, I was basically using the delicate grasses in the foreground which were blowing very hard as a kind of transparent curtain, through to the stationary strong woody seed heads and stems behind, I liked the feeling of a gentle veil of dancing grasses.

I have many more shots from the day I took this, I may try and find time to process them later. Today it is windy and snowing heavily, later I may venture out with many layers of clothing and see what else I can get, I'll post more as and when I get them. BTW English fellows often enjoy the comapny of French fellows....... Thanks for commenting, much appreciated, as always.
 

janet Smith

pro member
I do" feel" movement in this and it's hard to descrbe- it seems the rushing of the wind comes from behind the delicate flowers in the front-for me it's as if "they are standing still in the wind" my interpetation
I do love those tiny fragile flowers in the -how strong nature has made them agaisnt a wind force-
it is a very good imagination to try for this! I would keep trying to find the force again-what a great idea!


Hello Charlotte

Thanks for stopping by, you seem to have understood what I was trying to capture, I know that you share my love of wild flowers, I spend a lot of time in my garden, winter is particularly interesting to me when the garden is stripped of colour, reduced to texture and gnarled shapes, this is a theme I will continue to work on through the winter months....

Thanks for the encouragement, much appreciated.
 

janet Smith

pro member
It could open a whole conversation about seeing past what's right in front of you to the world beyond. Very creative and effective use of depth of field and I love the softness of the tones

Thank you so much for this David, this is exactly was I was trying to achieve, using the dancing grasses in the foreground as a veil through to what was behind, many thanks for commenting.
 

janet Smith

pro member
Is it too late to try again? Usually, movement results in the flexible bits being out of focus and bent out of position. That is not what I see here. It is the background that is out of focus or moving

Hi Nat

No, not too late to try again, my garden is a very windy one! I'm sure there'll be plenty more days, and I'm patient.... The background is in focus, the foreground is blurred, the delicate grasses in the foreground were blowing strongly..

Many thanks for commenting, much appreciated...
 

janet Smith

pro member
Hi Asher

Well as always you have given me interesting food for thought, rest assured I will be experimenting with your ideas, funnily enough I had been thinking about experimenting with flash, I'm even wondering about trying to shoot them at night blowing around, the possibilities are interesting to me, it's just coming light here and snowing heavily, could be interesting later on...

Many thanks for your thoughts, ideas and time which I greatly appreciate.
 

janet Smith

pro member
I have also worked on similar compositions using plants, grasses, and other natural stuff so I like your direction and encourage you to pursue it. .....But what I think needs reworking/reshooting here is the mixture of sharp and dull focus.
Keep going with this! Forget WHAT you're shooting and just look at the viewfinder image as a painting. And expect to make ALOT of exposures before your get one keeper.


Hello Ken

Well, more very helpful feedback, thank you. You make several interesting points, I will get the tripod out next time, this was handheld, I was kind of moving with the grasses, following their movement as I shot through them, but next time, I will get the tripod out and am ready to make loads of exposures, this is a project I'm going to be working on through the winter, together with texture of the withering plants, which is particulalrly interesting to me as they get more gnarled and dessicated through the winter months.

Many thanks for your encouragement, it's very much appreciated
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hello Ken

Well, more very helpful feedback, thank you. You make several interesting points, I will get the tripod out next time, this was handheld, I was kind of moving with the grasses, following their movement as I shot through them, but next time, I will get the tripod out and am ready to make loads of exposures, this is a project I'm going to be working on through the winter, together with texture of the withering plants, which is particulalrly interesting to me as they get more gnarled and dessicated through the winter months.

Many thanks for your encouragement, it's very much appreciated

Hi Janet,

I am so happy that this project will be ongoing and it's going to be wonderful that we can, on a miniature scale, perhaps is repeat the exciting experience we have all had watching the adventures of Fahim the Nepal explorer and his Mount Everest conquering wife! We all know what you want and it will be great to see how you approach this.

I feel that getting one copy of the seeds or plant in perfect foucs and then departing from that position with a number of blurred transitions is what to go after. It can be stuccato but rapid stobe shots ot it can be a slow second shot with a dragged shutter and rear curtain flash.

Ken has a good point about having plant with defined structure. You project is far more challenging because the seeds are so delicate. You might practice indoors with a more substantial plant with a delicate flower and a fan to get the movement!

When it's perfected, then going out in the cold will be a quick and doable job. An assistant is essential!

Asher
 

janet Smith

pro member
I am so happy that this project will be ongoing and it's going to be wonderful that we can, on a miniature scale, perhaps is repeat the exciting experience we have all had watching the adventures of Fahim the Nepal explorer and his Mount Everest conquering wife! We all know what you want and it will be great to see how you approach this.....

You might practice indoors with a more substantial plant with a delicate flower and a fan to get the movement!

When it's perfected, then going out in the cold will be a quick and doable job. An assistant is essential!

More excellent advice, thank you Asher, I will post more but it's going to take some time.... My assistant is usually the four legged kind! but I'll drag Paul out to hold a reflector for me and help brace the tripod in the wind! Once again many thanks for your help and encouragement, it matters to me...
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Creating from Natural Elements of Form.

Hello Janet; I have also worked on similar compositions using plants, grasses, and other natural stuff so I like your direction and encourage you to pursue it. This particular image, to my eye is not as strong and image as I suspect that scene could provide you. Your color contrasts and exposure are ok, although you'll want to experiment a bit more. I very much like the back-handed diagonal striations that the out-of-focus foreground weeds create although it somewhat overwhelms the right half of the image. Color contrasts can be critical in guiding the eye through these types of images. And, of course, FORM selection and definition is alway critical, as the eye wants to immediately inventory familiar forms.

But what I think needs reworking/reshooting here is the mixture of sharp and dull focus. In my experience, and again to my eye, If anything is near crisp focus you have to let the eye resolve it completely. Otherwise it makes the entire scene look like a mistake or dud. Specifically, that dry flower top in the upper right of the image is partially obscured and makes the entire scene appear more accidental than intentional.

Hi Ken,

Your input is valuable. You have covered form, color contrast, composition, your "inventory of familiar things" and importantly the reference we have to some area that's well defined.

This latter issue a very very good to emphasize. We do instantly compare with reference to what is sharply in focus if it's there at all. Before anything is processed on a higher level there are extraordinarily fast circuits trying to filter meaning in all the many points of interest to find what might be relevant to survival: danger or food.

When we use this, we can get the viewer's eye to follow where we want immediately and get them involved. That's why I suggested having one defined layer before building the "moved" or "moving" layer either stuccato or with an extension of the in focus stem or seed that's motion blurred in the picture, or by post processing. I don't know one can do this without one area that is sharply focussed.

Perhaps having a rock or a tree trunk could allow one to use only blurred leaves and seeds?

Pay special attention to focus and contrasts. Forget WHAT you're shooting and just look at the viewfinder image as a painting.

That you have done well in the pictures you kindly share:

medium.jpg
medium.jpg
medium.jpg


These images can be used as great references to what might be obtainable by observing not just the identities of what's there but what the whole matter constitutes as an experience, for that's all there will be recorded, a painting. These pictures are significant in the use of shape, pattern, texture, position of elements and color palettes of nature that are so agreeable and give us as sense of harmony.

Looking at these elements, the gestalt and not, as you say the identities, I'm reminded of plein air and Monet and how he used form, colors, textures and especially a deep study of, (and investment in), seasonal and angled lighting to create his, what I'd coin, "a singular unit of being". This is an experience that does not need the rest of the world for that time one looks at it.

So yes, I ask the reader to take a great step, a leap in which we might use as elements the kind that Ken's forms represent, but with thicker strokes and add color and special lighting to get one specially unique experience. It's a bold idea, but this is what I am thinking:

wheatstacks.jpg


Claude Monet Wheatstacks (End of Summer)
1890-91; Oil on canvas, 60 x 100 cm; The Art Institute of Chicago


Source is from the ibiblio.com website here.
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
I think it works differently, not better or worse, than your original image, Janet. It has a more dynamic breezy feeling due mainly to the out-of-focus diagonals.
 

janet Smith

pro member
It has a more dynamic breezy feeling due mainly to the out-of-focus diagonals.

Hello Ken

I'm encouraged by your comment, thank you. At least the feeling of wind seems to be coming across more in this one, I'm beginning to think I've set myself an impossible task here, but I intend to keep trying, I think tomorrow is set to be windy, so guess what I'll be doing! Just hoping the light isn't flat grey and dull...
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
If I may make a suggestion...think differently. Take different approaches on this sensual subject.

An astrophysicist was explaining to a group of reporters how a team had verified Einstein's theory of space-time being distortable by strong gravitational fields. He looked at one of the reporters who was wearing glasses and asked, "Are you wearing glasses?".

The reporter grinned at the self-evidence of his answer, "Yes.".

The physicist then said, "How do you know? You can't really see them. You can only see how they bend the light."

Well, that's what you're attempting to show. But flowers and weeds aren't the only things affected by the wind, are they?

If you want to shoot the breeze and are having a hard time thinking of new approaches try to imagine how you would avoid showing the affects of wind.
 

janet Smith

pro member
If I may make a suggestion...think differently. Take different approaches on this sensual subject.....flowers and weeds aren't the only things affected by the wind, are they?

If you want to shoot the breeze and are having a hard time thinking of new approaches try to imagine how you would avoid showing the affects of wind.

Hi Ken

Thank you for your considered respsonse, and for your suggestions, very helpful and thought provoking.

I'm wondering about introducing a stationary object into the shot, and using a long exposure, as one would shoot running water moving around a rock. I also liked Asher's suggestion of shooting one of the stems inside and layering with other images.

I can see this developing into a bit of an obsession! The possibilities of introducing movement into a still shot are interesting to me. But for now it's movement within the garden that I'm working on (together with texture - they kind of overlap), I want to try and show the winter garden in a different way, not just dull straw-like lifeless shapes....

We'll see what tomorrow brings, thanks for your time.
 
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