Just for Fun No C&C will be given: A Chance Meeting

Paul Abbott · Oct 27, 2009

This is Paul Barkshire whom I happened to meet in Shoreditch, London. After talking with him, I asked him for his picture and he obliged.
He uses a Wista 10x8, which along with a tripod, he carries around with him in a shopping trolley. He has documented London all through the early eighties up to now.
He is currently documenting the last of the public houses (pubs) that are still standing, but disappearing fast.

Here is a link to his work: http://www.tweakerzine.com/paulbarkshire

Paul Abbott - Paul Barkshire, the Photographer

Asher Kelman · Oct 27, 2009

.....and his camera?

Paul, I like a portrait that reaches out to us as this does, with him sizing you up and also posing very well as if he was directing the shoot and interviewing you at the same time.

Asher

BTW, it looks like he rolls his own smokes!

Paul Abbott · Oct 28, 2009

Thanks, Asher.

I have had 32 hits on this post and no one has bothered to leave a word good or bad, either about my photo or this guys work. I can only assume that people cannot be bothered. Shame.

Cem_Usakligil · Oct 28, 2009

Paul Abbott said:
Thanks, Asher.

I have had 32 hits on this post and no one has bothered to leave a word good or bad, either about my photo or this guys work. I can only assume that people cannot be bothered. Shame.

Hi Paul,

You can read the answer I have given to a similar remark here. It is indeed a shame but it is also inevitable that some images will go unnoticed for whatever the reasons. It is also up to the OP to "refresh" their post if nobody answers at first. We can get disappointed and let it be or we can take action and ask again, by which time somebody will inevitably respond; even if that somebody is one of the OPF team. I use the "recent posts" option and do not proactively search for threads from the past two days or earlier. I know that most regulars do also the same. If a post gets pushed down the history, those of us who do use this method of browsing will probably miss it.

Cheers,

PS: I will come back to reply to the portrait later.

Bart_van_der_Wolf · Oct 28, 2009

Paul Abbott said:
Thanks, Asher.

I have had 32 hits on this post and no one has bothered to leave a word good or bad, either about my photo or this guys work. I can only assume that people cannot be bothered. Shame.

Hi Paul,

I rarely comment on other people's work if they are not able to respond in OPF. So discussing his work with others doesn't seem constructive to me. Without the input/feedback from the author, a lot of assumptions can be made, most are probably wrong.

The image you posted probably has much more significance for you (as a fellow Londoner) than for me. I am personally not fond of cutting off people's forehead in portraits, but others don't mind. Not much can be learned from that I'm afraid, hence my lack of reaction before.

Since you appear to be disappointed about the lack of response, I took the courtesy of leaving a remark, with not much to contribute I'm afraid.

I like your cityscapes much more (than this portrait), but I don't want to repeat myself with a "well done, I really like it", even if I do. If however you ask for a reaction, e.g. because you are trying out a different style and would welcome input on the path chosen, by all means ask (I'm not a mindreader) and I will (also) probably have something to say, FWIW.

Again, I like your cityscapes. This portrait however doesn't strike a chord with me necessarily (the hand is to bright/prominent/distracting), but YMMV.

Cheers,
Bart

Cem_Usakligil · Oct 28, 2009

As promised, here is my feedback on the portrait.

Asher Kelman said:
.....Paul, I like a portrait that reaches out to us as this does, with him sizing you up and also posing very well as if he was directing the shoot and interviewing you at the same time.

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:
....I am personally not fond of cutting off people's forehead in portraits, but others don't mind.
....
....(the hand is to bright/prominent/distracting), but YMMV.

I tend to agree with both Asher and Bart. I think that there is/was potential in this portrait which hasn't been utilized fully. I would not cut off the forehead as Bart says. Since you've cropped to square, is there perhaps more in the full frame? The bright hand can be easily burned in post processing so it is not a real issue. All said, I like the image due to the expression on his face. Perhaps it is because he reminds me of someone I know.

Cheers,

Asher Kelman · Oct 28, 2009

Mechanics of framing in the motif of a photograph!

Paul Abbott - Paul Barkshire, the Photographer

[

Bart and Cem,

So, both of you object to cut off foreheads!

Let's explore the opposite point of view as this is built into the actual picture! This photograph is of a man, known as a photographer. He's looking back at us and considerably controlling his image. The purposeful framing can be considered a motif. We know have the realm of "viewing" limited by the mechanics of framing, like looking through a viewfinder or window.

Paul Abbot's forehead-cut works for me. We must realize that Paul Berkshire, (as an experienced photographer), looks back from a guarded position and usurps a dominance in making this picture. He knows perfectly well what will be seen. Responding to this, the guy with his camera is simply engraving his own mark over the sitter's projected vision. In effect, Paul Berkshire, the British Photographer, is shown through a tiny window with his smoke, almost like a tough street guy confined to a prison cell. That's how our own British Photographer regains control.

Asher

Charlotte Thompson · Oct 28, 2009

Paul

I saw this photo yesterday but am recovering from the flu-today I am feeling so much better and had to come back to comment-
I really like the shot and as Asher said and I also noticed right off was his strong stare into you as a photograher, excellent catch even though the hand seems a bit light-
it certainly shows for me at least "this is an artist" one who has been around the block which is so important that a portrait be caught "as the spirit it is" nice catch
do you do any more of him? are you interested in this kind of candid portrait work
I think you have a talent for it-the top of the head slightly being gone isn't a big deal as far as I am concerend -I crop tops of heads off a lot- depends on what is importrant in the shot and what you see as importance

Charlotte-

Cem_Usakligil · Oct 28, 2009

Asher Kelman said:
.....This photograph is of a man, known as a photographer. He's looking back at us and considerably controlling his image. The purposeful framing can be considered a motif. ....
...
We must realize that Paul Berkshire, (as an experienced photographer), looks back from a guarded position and usurps a dominance in making this picture. He knows perfectly well what will be seen. Responding to this, the guy with his camera is simply engraving his own mark over the sitter's projected vision. ...

I respectfully disagree. A portrait should stand on its own regardless of the occupation of the sitter. What difference does it make if he is a photographer or not?

Cheers,

Bart_van_der_Wolf · Oct 28, 2009

Asher Kelman said:
Bart and Cem,

So, both of you object to cut off foreheads!

In general, yes I do. But there's a time and place for everything, so I'm not dogmatic about it. E.g. if the subject would have had dark hair, it would have made a nice framing of the facial features. Now it risks leading the eye out of the frame. Perhaps, given the image as is, I would have tried a crop just a bit above the ear. That would make the hand even more prominent, and it starts to play a role of its own (which might be appropriate for a craftsman, or just as a compositional element).

Anyway, Paul's overall composition in the frame is, as usual, quite good. We already knew that from his cityscapes, so our expectations are raised. But making good portraits is very difficult.

We must realize that Paul Berkshire, (as an experienced photographer), looks back from a guarded position and usurps a dominance in making this picture. He knows perfectly well what will be seen.

I'm not so sure, unless he has his portrait taken often, and he has seen those results. Most photographers don't like to pose for a portrait, but Paul Barkshire is 'present', that's for sure.

Responding to this, the guy with his camera is simply engraving his own mark over the sitter's projected vision.

That sounds a bit too mechanical to me. In my book, a good portrait lets the observer see beyond the facade, into the soul of the subject. Paul's image has some of that and, if it were not for the distractions (bright areas that don't contribute but distract IMHO), the stare is intriguing. Maybe the '***' is an extention of Paul B's persona (in which case it's a valuable addition), but that would be an assumption, I don't know if it's valid.

Maybe there are other shots from the same session, maybe this was the best, maybe this was the only one?

Cheers,
Bart

Asher Kelman · Oct 28, 2009

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:
In general, yes I do. But there's a time and place for everything, so I'm not dogmatic about it. E.g. if the subject would have had dark hair, it would have made a nice framing of the facial features. Now it risks leading the eye out of the frame.

Yes, that works against this small degree of crop. One wants that missing piece!

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:
Perhaps, given the image as is, I would have tried a crop just a bit above the ear.

... definitive enough that we stop looking for this missing part to complete the greater distraction of a smaller missing portion. You make a good point here.

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:
That would make the hand even more prominent, and it starts to play a role of its own (which might be appropriate for a craftsman, or just as a compositional element).[/agreed]

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

............. if it were not for the distractions (bright areas that don't contribute but distract IMHO), the stare is intriguing.

Click to expand...

Bart,

I missed this effect, I must admit, but it bears weight. Knowing which bright spots to remove is not straightforward. How would you approach this task?

Asher

Bart_van_der_Wolf · Oct 28, 2009

Asher Kelman said:
Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

That would make the hand even more prominent, and it starts to play a role of its own (which might be appropriate for a craftsman, or just as a compositional element).

Click to expand...

Agreed

Bart,

I missed this effect, I must admit, but it bears weight. Knowing which bright spots to remove is not straightforward. How would you approach this task?

Given the shot as is, after toning down the brightness of the hand by selecting it and using a curves adjustment, cropping, and a slight vignetting, something like this:

Copyright Paul Abbott, edit by Bart.

Cheers,
Bart

Mike Shimwell · Oct 28, 2009

Interesting discussion.

I saw this before heading off to work this morning and the thought that crossed my mind was how this works in comparison to your pictures of homeless people, that are being sent to Boris Johnson. There is a familiar theme here - Paul barkshire looks directky at us, his expression veering between a guarded agression and amusement (obviously my reading!). Although you have chosen a tight crop - I don't mind the cut off head - I am wondering what separates this from your other portraits.

But, maybe that is the point and is enough?

Mike

Paul Abbott · Oct 29, 2009

I am seriously surprised that some of you don't appreciate the act of cropping a subjects head in a portrait.
Many masters of photography do it, David Bailey and Steve Pyke do it, to name just two, so thats good enough for me. It presents great emphasis on the eyes, and it is an absolutely valid aspect to portraiture and should never be disregarded, I feel.

http://pyke-eye.com/writers.html

This portrait just had a crop on the left and right sides. I agree, I need to process it a little better.
Before taking this shot, I did direct him. I asked him if he could raise his cigarette to his mouth and I then took the shot. I have since sent him a copy of this photograph by email.

Bart, I like what you've done with the hand, but not the crop, I think that really is too tight in this instance, and it creates an imbalance, leaving his hand to dominate the image a little, I feel.

I appreciate you guys replying, and I appreciate the openness on this forum, I really do. I am 'open' like this on other forums and people don't like it, but then I don't do 'pussyfooting' around, i'm 'straight up'. Thanks guys.

PS - I tend not to like to keep bringing my photo to the top above others for no reason. What I always do though (in respect of the image), is to comment on whats already there before I post my own new photo, I do this out of regard and respect.

Asher Kelman · Oct 30, 2009

Paul Abbott said:
I am seriously surprised that some of you don't appreciate the act of cropping a subjects head in a portrait.
Many masters of photography do it, David Bailey and Steve Pyke do it, to name just two, so thats good enough for me. It presents great emphasis on the eyes, and it is an absolutely valid aspect to portraiture and should never be disregarded, I feel.

http://pyke-eye.com/writers.html

Steve's work is a great example to buttress the option of crops of the forehead in focusing attention better. Most of Pyke's crops like this perform very well. Just one gave me pause.

I too like Bart noticing the brightness of the hand. He has a sensitivity to this and it's a good reminder. It's really great that not everyone want's to crop in the same way as otherwise there's by no individual expression in preparing and processing what we shoot for presentation to others. I happen to like wider views for context when a whole person is shown and aggressive cropping to become intimate. However, that requires art in getting the subject at the expressive moment and that you have aced here.

The fact that your picture still grabs folks attention is proof of this.

asher

Sandra Jones · Oct 30, 2009

Paul Abbott said:
Thanks, Asher.

I have had 32 hits on this post and no one has bothered to leave a word good or bad, either about my photo or this guys work. I can only assume that people cannot be bothered. Shame.

3 hits came from me and I would have commented earlier, but I can't see your picture. Note from Photobucket says it's been moved or deleted. ??

fahim mohammed · Oct 30, 2009

What Sandra said above.

Paul Abbott · Oct 31, 2009

Yeah, i'm sorry guys. I explained to Asher what had happened the other night. I accidentally deleted my host account due to being drunk and morose.

Asher Kelman · Nov 2, 2009

..and I will repair all the links when you send me the new ones!

Asher

Just for Fun No C&C will be given: A Chance Meeting

Paul Abbott

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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief

Paul Abbott

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Cem_Usakligil

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Cem_Usakligil

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Asher Kelman

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Charlotte Thompson

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Cem_Usakligil

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Asher Kelman

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Mike Shimwell

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Paul Abbott

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Asher Kelman

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Sandra Jones

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fahim mohammed

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Paul Abbott

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Asher Kelman

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