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Emulating Films via color profiles

zachary_goulko

New member
I love the convenience of digital, and with proper processing, you can really get a unique look, BUT, I would love to be able to emulate some films via color profiles. I wonder if it is possible to photograph a color target, with a particular film, and create a profile of how it maps certain colors, then have a profile created for your camera to emulate the color/gamut mapping of that film.

For example, polaroids have really dreamy and beautiful, purple/green tints to them, that I would love to replicate, but this takes lots of time in Photoshop, and is never quite the same.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Ben Lifson regularly uses his digital cameras to capture B&W. His whole workflow starts with conceptualizing the picture from the outset as a B&W picture.

He, however, uses cameras that allow previewing the image as B&W on the LCD screen. The RD-1 and the Lumix series offer this.

Maybe more users of these cameras can let us know their workflow for particular film looks. I would expect that the choices of film look for jpgs at least would be options in the camera, so Epson or Panasonic has done that work in firmware.

There are plugins from Fredmiranda.com and

http://www.pixelgenius.com/photokit/col-bw.html

Asher
 

Diane Fields

New member
I often preview B/W with the 5D as I did with the 20D. I set my custom functions for this but do not also record a jpeg. However, the preview on the LCD is b/w--or even with a 'red' (or other) filter--and can be tinted, as sepia, for instance.

Addendum--I should have said I was referencing Asher's comments about Ben Lifson being able to 'conceptualize' b/w from the getgo of his workflow. With the 5D I shoot in RAW--but when I'm thinking b/w ((mono often), then I usually switch to a picture style---mono, set it for the filter effect (red, yellow, orange, green, none) and the toning effect--sepia, blue, purple green--or none---and the preview on the LCD is in mono and helps tremendously in visualizing for my processing later. I could also set it for RAW + jpeg and have a mono jpeg plus the RAW, but I don't really have a use for the jpeg and it takes up room on the card. I also have the set button for toggling between neutral and mono in my picture styles so I can view either in color or mono (C. Fn. 1/2). Its a help in many cases.

Diane
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thanks Andy!

Could you comment on the workflow with the cameras that show on the LCD a B&W image. They can deliver a jpg. How is that quality and look from a camera-processed file compared to the looks obtainable in PS. Also in the B&W options in these cameras, is the RAW image delivered as a B&W RAW or is it "untouched" RAW as when shooting color?

Asher
 

Diane Fields

New member
Asher Kelman said:
Thanks Andy!

Could you comment on the workflow with the cameras that show on the LCD a B&W image. They can deliver a jpg. How is that quality and look from a camera-processed file compared to the looks obtainable in PS. Also in the B&W options in these cameras, is the RAW image delivered as a B&W RAW or is it "untouched" RAW as when shooting color?

Asher

Asher---the RAW is RAW--so you must process it as always. However, you can use the jpeg as is if you like. I still prefer to work with a RAW file and process it myself.

I know you asked Andrew--and I surely can't comment with the knowledge he has--but this is just my own experience. I only use the RAW with a mono picture style to give me a feeling for how the subject works for a mono image.

Diane
 

zachary_goulko

New member
I know that some cameras allow you to use presets for films and black and white, but what I had in mind is something that would actually give me full control in a RAW converter. For example in C1, I would like to be able to use a profile called 1DS II - Polaroid Profile, that would map the colors of my camera, to the colors of a particular film's response.

John,

I downloaded the silky pix software, but I didn't see any film presets. Where would I go about finding them?

Thanks in advance.
 

Edmund Ronald

New member
zachary_goulko said:
I know that some cameras allow you to use presets for films and black and white, but what I had in mind is something that would actually give me full control in a RAW converter. For example in C1, I would like to be able to use a profile called 1DS II - Polaroid Profile, that would map the colors of my camera, to the colors of a particular film's response.

A member of rg had sent me some curves, and I found densitometric info on some films too, and played with recreating standard emulsions. Problem is, the curves tool in PS uses Bezier and wrecks your curves, and also setting the tones really needs a good eye. Summary: An interesting exercise, but I'd prefer someone else to do the work for me.

Edmund
 

Ray West

New member
I think, if you used the 'profile prism' software from ddisoftware.com you could scan in a polaroid of one of the targets, and prepare a camera icc profile. I suspect you would have to also subtract the values, or something similar, to the values obtained by scanning in the target taken with your digital camera. You can edit profiles with said software. It only costs $79.00, but is windows only.

A possible alternative would be to examine one of the free velvia/provea ps actions, and insert appropiate values to get the polaroid colour cast, grain, etc.

hth,

Best wishes,
 

zachary_goulko

New member
This is exactly what I had in mind. To shoot a color target with several different films, such as Polaroid. Then shoot the same target with a digital camera, and create a transitional profile to be used in a color managed RAW converter such as C1 for the digital files to respond as a particular film would. Just not exactly sure how to go about it.

I have a color target from Color Eyes 20/20, as well as a spectrophotometer to create my own if needed. Perhaps contacting Integrated Color Solutions and requesting this in a new version wouldn't be a bad idea.
 

Andrew Rodney

New member
You can just mess with the Calibrate Tab in ACR which is in essence a "profile editor" (shift the primaries of the proprietary profile).

Scanning a target to build a camera profile?
 
but the film look is much more than the color curves....
there is so much "rabbish+ grain" in the film, and the curve is much softer at its ends for some way of "compression", its not done with a color correction. i just drumscanned some 35mm cromes and i was shocked by the bad quality from them, having not seen longer times 35mm scans....
but printed.... they look great. at least till A4. crazy how the eyes are changing,- now i complain about so fine noise in the shadows with my mf back,- and comparing this even to 4x5" (drum)scans the pure quality is so much higher from every- even the worst - digital mf shot.....
but printed,- film can still shines also,- not so at 100% in the computer. funny.
 

Edmund Ronald

New member
Robsteve was looking at creating curves mimicking film. I also found and played around with some measured densitometric data from old photo magazines. Got some interesting results and learnt a lot about what makes a "look". I myself shelved this work for lack of good curve digitization tools, but I now have some new software. Hmmmmmm.

Edmund
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Well Edmund,



Looks like you have a unique project for yourself. What might you be able to do?

Your mathematics background should give you an advantage! Will the "hmmmmmmm?" to "Ah Ha!"?

Asher
 

Bev Sampson

New member
Interesting thread. I have been searching for a profile for my Canon 1DMKII to simulate Kodak Portra. I have posted on a few forums to no avail. Does anyone know if such a profile exists. If not, I would think it could be a money maker. Skin tones with Portra were exceptional.

Bev
 

zachary_goulko

New member
I will contact Jack Bingham of Integrated Color to find out if this is possible, and if so, then how. This is something that I have much need and interest for.
 

Bev Sampson

New member
zachary_goulko said:
I will contact Jack Bingham of Integrated Color to find out if this is possible, and if so, then how. This is something that I have much need and interest for.

Thank you Zachary. I will patiently await your findings.

Bev
 

Edmund Ronald

New member
Beverly Sampson said:
Interesting thread. I have been searching for a profile for my Canon 1DMKII to simulate Kodak Portra. I have posted on a few forums to no avail. Does anyone know if such a profile exists. If not, I would think it could be a money maker. Skin tones with Portra were exceptional.

Bev

Yeah, we had a simulated Portra. The problem is, the individual cameras deviate a lot so you have to really apply these things on an image per image basis.
 

Alain Briot

pro member
Dx0 4.0 has a number of "film-look" profiles built in. The new version will be released later this month for PC and in October for Mac. A demo is already available.
 

Amy Goalen

New member
Capture 1 Pro

I've read through the responses on this thread and no one mentioned C1Pro. This digital capture software from Phase One has a feature called "styles". These are profiles that can be applied that emulate many different film types.

I've never used this feature for professional purposes, but it certainly works quite well. You can even make your own if you know how to manipulate the software. For that matter you can create similar profile if you are a Leaf user as well.

Amy Goalen
Leaf/Phase One software trainer
Digital Technician
 
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