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Mel Gibson's Arrest Photos of arrest reports

john armstrong

New member
and Gibson is allowed to make movies?

Certainly hope that the public looks more closely at Gibson's record before they pay to see anymore of his movies. This guy is a disgrace but then many of us new he was off his rocker before this incident.
 

Harvey Moore

New member
Mel Gibson is a self admitted alcoholic, exhibiting typical alcoholic behavior while drinking.

This affects many people in all walks of life, including professions that attract public exposure. I see nothing productive in documenting that behavior, especially in a photography forum.
 

Gary Ayala

New member
I dunno ...

Harvey Moore said:
Mel Gibson is a self admitted alcoholic, exhibiting typical alcoholic behavior while drinking.

This affects many people in all walks of life, including professions that attract public exposure. I see nothing productive in documenting that behavior, especially in a photography forum.

I won't get into "public figures" et cetera arguement. I friend once told me to review all my actions as if they would be on the front page of the LA Times (I live in SoCal). I have tried to follow that advice.

If you are about to engaged into, or perform some action which you would rather not be revealed to the entire world ... then don't do it. If Gibson admits to a problem with substance abuse then he needs to live a life style which accommodates this affliction.

I suspect millions of people in this world have changed their life style to accommodate afflictions (from substance abuse to diabetes to gambling to over eating, et al).

Gibson, with his world wide reputation could have been a hero, but now he's a goat. He could have been the champion for helping those with substance abuse. The headslines could have read "Gibson Opens New Clinic" or "Gibson wins Oscar for Abuse Movie" or "Gibson Initiates Abuse Foundation" (similar to Live Strong). But hindsight is 20/20.

We all know the difference between right and wrong. But most of us (including myself) will fudge and allow "what we want to do at this very moment" overcome what is best in the long run.

Gibson was weak ... and it is sad to see such weakness in one who otherwise seems so successful and strong. The negative publicity, regardless of venue is appropriate. Gibson knows better than most, that being a public figure is a two edged sword. It has allowed him to acquire great wealth ... and now it is exposing a weakness. Hopefully, Gibson can make this publicity into a positive and reach out and help himself and others be strong.
 
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Dierk Haasis

pro member
Oh man, this guy is a human being, not a god! He's, more precisely, an extrovert or he wouldn't be an actor and director. And since when are actors the ones I or my children should listen to as role models?

"Gibson was weak ...", bad enough he wears his catholicism on the sleeve but whyt kind of argument for or against another man's (or woman's) behaviour is this, "weak"? "Oh, come on, be strong, you are William Wallace, you are Mad Max; behave yourself!" Next thing is he chains a bad driver to to a smouldering petrol tank and hands him a saw. That what we expect of him?

I really hate this attitude towards celebrities - "be better than me because I can't; and even if I could I don't have the publicity."
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
We all admire people with charm, good looks and success. That's why we go for "stars". However, they know that in real life they are noticable and can like the ficitious people they portray, have there true nature revealed by ordinary things that happen.

Part of any movie is to test the protagonist and by putting him in many scenes where there is a "gap" between what people want & expect versus reality.

In this way, we learn more of what fiber exists underneath outward appearances.

In a movie, it often takes 2 acts to reveal, scene by scene, such deep character.

Drink does reveal these facets and in one stroke!

It doesn't, however create disrespect that demeans a women nor driven obsessional disgusting racism that isn't there already and firmly entrenched.

I'm disappointed.

Asher
 
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Dierk Haasis

pro member
Asher Kelman said:
It doesn't, however create disrespect that demeans a women nor driven obsessional disgusting racism that isn't there already and firmly entrenched.

I'm disappointed.

Well, disappointment stems solely from our own expectations - if you expect too much you'll get disappointed [this is actually a more refrained, more sober rephrasing of my first post to this topic].

As for racism and sexism, be careful what you think about others [Mr Gibson would invoke the splinter-beam saying of the Bible]. I guess nobody sees himself as a racist or a sexist, nevertheless our evolutionary make-up gives us a few deeply ingrained "views" usually only coming up when we are freed of our rational inhibitions - by alcohol, drugs, sometimes just by a bunch of good friends.

We as humans have a tendency toward xenophobia, which can easily look like blatant racism in our modern PC [not the machine] world. My theory is that this streak of healthy xenophobia - or do you know what the dark stranger on your front lawn has in his big bag? - leads to every kind of insulting behaviour to anybody who is remotely different from us. Thus sexism is not specifically directed against women, it's just that sex is the easiest difference observable between any man and woman.

Another point easily forgotten about our psychology: We are automatically looking for differences, we are really good in finding them within an instant*. And we use these under stress to insult others. A woman is angering you and you will surely spill out sexist remarks. The opponent is a man with decidedly differing facial features [I forgot what the politically correct term for people with a direct genetic connection to our forefathers in Africa is], you call him a "nigger" - or a "wok", "Schlitzauge" if he is of Asian decent. You will even use any kind of disability to insult an opponent. Not nice but true.

This does not mean I endorse it, actually I find it quite disgusting that people seem to think it is their duty to dis-inhibit themselves so far. In the case of a Catholic like Mr Gibson, he just goes to church next Sunday, confesses his sins, gets a minor penalty and every thing's fine. [Note the satirical tone.]

In one respect you are perfectly right to blame Mad Mel: As long as he uses his celebrity status for the good [although I don't see any good in proselytising, but then I am an ardent atheist], he has to bear the burden of being a public figure. He cannot suddenly ask reporters to lay off him.




*Our visual cortex works just like MPEG, filtering out everything which does not change, recognising only changes in a scene.
 

Don Lashier

New member
The Hindus have a word for this - karma.

AFA his rant that the Jews are responsible for all the wars of the world, I might somewhat agree with him if he were to broaden that to "religion", although "avarice" would need to be included and more recently "oil". I find it ironic that Mel's own proclaimed attitudes are exactly what incite to war.

- DL
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Dierk Haasis.......... A. I guess nobody sees himself as a racist or a sexist said:
world. My theory is that this streak of healthy xenophobia - or do you know what the dark stranger on your front lawn has in his big bag? - leads to every kind of insulting behaviour to anybody who is remotely different from us. Thus sexism is not specifically directed against women, it's just that sex is the easiest difference observable between any man and woman.

.

I have added A & B to point to text, for brevity.

A. There is no evolutionary make up that naturally programs a man to be racist or anti-semetic and demand to know if a police officer is "Jewish"! Children do not have racist behavior. They get trained. It so happens Mel's father is known as saying the Holocaust is a myth. Both are obsessed with the so called "crime" of Deicide. The Catholic Church moved away from this with "Nostre Aetate) and Pacem in Terres" but the Gibson own "Independant" Catholic Church doesnt go along with this, as Mel's movie demonstrated so well.

B. The dark stranger on the front lawn, a vagrant is a cause of questioning if he's white. Tell me about it!
Xeonphobia is not healthy. It is taught. If the people in the next village eat your people, then it might be something worth teaching. Otherwise, not :)

Sexism is part of life, both ways. To some extent that is acceptable just needs to be bashed from time to time.
This cannot be mistaken for what Gibson is reported to have done.

We cannot allow degrading a trained and respected pollice officer by calling her by her "tits". That is not sexism. That is degradation and denial of everything that female officer has worked so hard for, likely without the benefit of good looks, charm or money. This alone, should be enough to remove him from public view in disgrace. However, he's too rich, charming and successful, so he gets away with it, blaming everything on ETOH.

It is, I believe important to not go to the PC route of saying "I don't want to be judgemental". Sorry, that and accountable is important too!

Asher
 

Don Lashier

New member
Asher Kelman said:
It is, I believe important to not go to the PC route of saying "I don't want to be judgemental". Sorry, that and accountable is important too!

Asher

Mel used his notoriety to broadcast his message, so I see nothing wrong with publicity and discussion about this event.

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you ." Matthew 7:12

Karma again.

- DL
 

Dierk Haasis

pro member
Asher, I don't deny Mr Gibson's (jr. and sr.) dubious politics, I also don't doubt that many of the specifics of Mel's drunken hatred are based upon his upbringing. That, however, does not mean xenophobia is a cultural thing.

Sure, the particularities - hating women, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Shi'ites, Sunnites, Scots, Germans, the elder, teenagers, people with 6 toes, folks with a green spot behind the left ear - are cultural, as is the action often taken against the ones hated. All of this is based upon a once very helpful notion that it be safer for oneself to distrust strangers. And a stranger was everybody not being in your village or tribe.

Add to this the feeling of superiority, rationalised on creation myths - everybody's own tribe is the Chosen People - and you have a powerful drive for war and genocide. It started with a raid on the neighbouring tribe to get girls and developed to the Trojan War, the Crusades, the World War [for me 1 and 2 are two parts of the same book], the Intifadas, the 9/11 Attacks ...

For the most part the Enlightenment helped us to understand this and do away with wholesale irrational violence. Unfortunately the psychological basis is still there, easily triggered by alcohol, drugs, peer pressure, job loss and many more. I find it deeply disturbing that the War on Enlightenment waged by several Muslim tribalists led lots of people in the West [pars pro toto], especially some leaders, to counter with the notion that to fight against Muslimswe need to forego Enlightnement, instead relying on our own flavour of anti-rationality.

I know where they are coming from, succumbing to the exact same deep xenophobia we all share, but I say disturbing because the may after all win. The personal behaviour of Mel Gibson in the case cited by you is an obvious symptom of this [as, BTW, is the very strange disourse about Israel fighting Hezbollah and Hamas, and the even stranger alliances formed by leftists, pacifists and Nazis in Germany about the matter].

The exception I took and still take is about the celebrity Mel Gibson that gets slammed here. Would you have posted the same article about Gary Fitzgerald Hume*? I doubt it, actually there wouldn't have been a report.

Not taking the PC route is rather difficult. Let's leave out that nobody ever accused me of being PC before ...

Isn't it PC to ask from celebrities to behave better than the average person because they are role models? Or is it only PC if you criticise them for behaviour that is totally legal and acceptable in general but not good in a role model (think smoking)? Perhaps PC is if you don't criticise for bad behaviour because they are, after all, just humans?

PC never was a viable concept, it's just another name for hypocritical behaviour. Anyone with a little bit of education and socail skills always knew how to behave under what circumstances. PC was just another way to come up with (rather foggy) rules about what is and what is not acceptable. Unfortunately they tried to put these rules into stone [how's that for imagery: fog put into stone]. Those idiots really think it makes a difference how something is called. Don't need Gertrude Stein to tell me how dumb this notion is.

So, who is PC, I asking for a bit of slack for Mr Gibson, or you condemning him for bad behaviour? [trick question, there is no answer]



*This is a made up name, based upon an American writer, a Scottish philosopher and an American cartoonist.
 

Roger Lambert

New member
Dierk Haasis said:
The exception I took and still take is about the celebrity Mel Gibson that gets slammed here. .

The problem I have with Mel Gibson's celebrity is that he uses his wholesome boy-next-door cinematic charms to clandestinely finance repulsively antisemitic projects. And all the while remains mum and specifically unapologetic about his racist views and actions.

To invoke Godwins Law, he is a Nazi in sheeps clothing.
 

Dierk Haasis

pro member
Roger Lambert said:
The problem I have with Mel Gibson's celebrity is that he uses his wholesome boy-next-door cinematic charms to clandestinely finance repulsively antisemitic projects. And all the while remains mum and specifically unapologetic about his racist views and actions.

This, for me, is a valid criticism. It has relatively little to do with Mel Gibson being an actor (=> public figure) but with his political and religious views. I wholeheartedly agree with this.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Dierk Haasis said:
A. Asher, I don't deny Mr. Gibson's (jr. and sr.) dubious politics, .... Drunken hatred

B. Sure, the particularities - hating women, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Shiites, Sunnites, Scots, Germans, the elder, teenagers, people with 6 toes, folks with a green spot behind the left ear - are cultural,

C. Add to this the feeling of superiority, rationalized on creation myths - everybody's own tribe is the Chosen People -

D. Not taking the PC route is rather difficult. Let's leave out that nobody ever accused me of being PC before ...

Again reducing Dierk's thesis to letters A, B and C.

A. The adjectives "dubious" and "drunken" do not qualify for principal descriptors of the Gibson’s opprobrium. His politics are not dubious, they are deceitful. His hatred cannot be wrapped up in a conveniently available shroud to as a gift to those of us who empathize with the illness of alcoholism and understand the "boys will be boys" attitude when drink unmasks vile hatred.

B. It is, at a minimum, disingenuous to equate hating women and whole ethnicities, (which has led to countless genocides and disgusting treatment of women as "animals") with "people with 6 toes” That, is something you might consider retracting Dierk.

"5-toed prejudice"? The latter when it rarely occurs is a tragedy, a loss of potential for one human being.

The REAL existing xenophobias (which are inculcated into innocent children), result in torture, rape, massacres and destruction of existence of whole cultures.

There are gold doors in Spain representing the spoils of South America and memorializing the wiping out of a people, their culture and their memory. The descendants of escapees carry bibles but no poems of the Incas.

C. I am not PC. I celebrate people’s differences. I treasure their cultures. I search for their art and metaphors.
However, I have no truck with PC.

Today, the Los Angeles Times and the BBC have confirmed the authenticity of the photographs of the police trancripts of Gibson’s two repulsive attitudes

1. Treating an educated, trained, competent female police officer as a sexual organ. This is not merely disrespect, nor "sexism". It is downright mean, horrible and depraved reduction of womanhood to triviality.

2. Nazi attitudes as wicked as Henry Ford's secret financing of the re worked Russian Tsarist's anti-Semitic forgery, the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion".

That still published garbage was the modern expression of the "wickedness" of Jews.

Mel Gibson's hatred is presented in propaganda celebrating his obsession with the crime of killing god by glorifying his own torture and death in "Braveheart".

He even made his terrible death current, yelling "Freedom!", instead of "Forgive them..."!

That dramatized punishment, by tortured death, was a hardly camouflaged mimicry of the Crucifixion.

It usurped "celebrated glory". In case we didn't understand, in his subsequent movie, he did it again in a more gory, slow, painful voyeuristic graphic detail. The Churches, stifled in expression since "Pacem in Terres" and "Nostre Aetate" of the mid 20th century, flocked like sheep to adulate.

Asher
 
Let's let this one go by...

A. I think Don is right. Gibson's karma has caught up with him.

B. I don't know enough about Gibson's secret life on the dark side to comment, and don't really want to know more. He's made enough money to do what he wants, even if he does get a year of house arrest, spent in a comfortable celebrity detox. And his image has gotten a reasonable tarnishing.

C. There are far more evil people in the world, evil in their impact. They have armies and governments and militias and bombs and rockets at their disposal. Their hypocracy far outstrips Gibson's situational apology. Sharing our views on who these are and what they are doing will not have the slightest impact on what they are doing, but it will sure get our juices flowing.

D. Does it belong here?

scott
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Scott,

My thanks for summarizing our point of view. The facts speak for themselves. We have done the subject justice.

The take away points are

1. Don't be fooled by charm and beauty wrapping hatred.

2. Don't teach children to hate. They are naturally friendly in a healthy environment.

Asher

BTW, I am not closing the thread, just I'm satisfied we took notice.
 

Guy Tal

Editor at Large
This just hit my mailbox:

" CNN Breaking News
-- Actor Mel Gibson enters rehab following his arrest on suspicion of driving under the influence of alcohol, his spokesman confirms."

Guy
 

Dierk Haasis

pro member
Asher Kelman said:
A. The adjectives "dubious" and "drunken" do not qualify for principal descriptors of the Gibson’s opprobrium.

Granted, not in general. Again - as hopefully made clear by a later post from me - I do not excuse his overall politics and religion, muddled as they may be. I just pointed out that under the influence we tend to say things we'd never act upon when sober [which is why many "politically" motivated slobs, like our own German Neo-Nazis, tend to drink a lot or use peer pressure to get high before getting real nasty].

As it was originally reported, the MG incident was just another look who's behaving; it was out of context, the guy in question was definitely not on top of his game. It may be, and lots of things point in that direction, that Mr G really behaved like he thinks.

That, is something you might consider retracting Dierk.

No. first, read the sentence again and you will find that the last two items I listed are deliberately chosen for ironic effect. Second, my point was that anything differentiating us "from others" will be used as an excuse.

The Nazis went to great lengths to show why Jews are so different they cannot be counted as Germans. Most people, even Jews, till today believe there have been Germans and there have been Jews living in Germany before WW2. Most people (educated or not) still differentiate today between Germans and Jews living here; the same, BTW, holds true for all other European countries and for the USA. Did it ever occur to you that 'Jew' and 'German' are not in the same category? The Jews having lived in Germany before ethnic cleansing were - Germans. Many of them were very proud Germans, conservative, some thought Hitler was right apart from the Jew-thing.

The differences shown by the Nazi paper Stürmer were not gross oversimplifications, they were abysmally bad caricatures of the image some non-Jews had in their mind. No Jew ever looked like the pictures concocted by the Stürmer. They used exactly the "6-toe"-category to make Jews Untermenschen, sub-humans. Because it is easier to kill a being that is not part of Homo sapiens proper. As a cultural reference: in the 50s B-movies used the same kind of defining what we can kill without regret - 3 fingers and it is evil.

As a last point for that: I talked about arbitrariness, not actual genocide based upon a 6th toe. Thinking about it, the 'Big Nose'-joke from Monty Python's Life of Brian makes the same point.

The REAL existing xenophobias (which are inculcated into innocent children), result in torture, rape, massacres and destruction of existence of whole cultures.

Did I deny that? I was only trying to convey that the basic notion of "the others" is not a cultural thing, only the specifics of how to define the others. Even "innocent" children aren't free of that, they are not blank slates when they are born. Parents know quite well that it is virtually impossible to teach their children to play with all the other children, not to exclude one. They will still do that. Only Hollywood resolve this within 100 min - parodied more than once by The Simpsons, Malcolm in the Middle etc.

1. Treating an educated, trained, competent female police officer as a sexual organ. This is not merely disrespect, nor "sexism". It is downright mean, horrible and depraved reduction of womanhood to triviality.

Whatever you name it, it is the very definition of sexism at its lowest end: Differentiating by sex to negative ends. A classical sexist is a man seeing woman as sex objects (or as washing machines if you are Woody Allen*).

Mel Gibson's hatred is presented in propaganda celebrating his obsession with the crime of killing god by glorifying his own torture and death in "Braveheart".

He even made his terrible death current, yelling "Freedom!", instead of "Forgive them..."!

That dramatized punishment, by tortured death, was a hardly camouflaged mimicry of the Crucifixion.

I think you are a bit over the top here.

Before I start about William Wallace and Mr Gibson's retelling of the story, let me assure you that

a) I don't like Braveheart
b) I don't like religion at all.

William Wallace's fight was about freedom not forgiveness [in classical historical understanding]; Jesus Christ's pieta was about forgiveness. A work of art is always about the artists and his view of the world; I find it hard to fault Mel Gibson for that. His interpretation of William Wallce's fight or the pieta is as valid as Martin Scorcese's - I may not share it but that does not make it invalid.*

Personally I find Freedom, Liberty and Enlightenment worthwhile - the only worthwhile (apart from self-defense) - causes to fight for. I am glad there have been loads of young man fighting for a free Europe in the 40s. Otherwise I wouldn't have the ability to discuss such matters with you here. The problem is that, given most people find these causes worthwhile, political and religious leaders use the names and tag them onto their own ends. And these are most often the exact opposites of the names put on them.

At least islamic leaders are true enogh to proclaim their fight against Freedom, Liberty and Enlightenment. Would Christians were be as truthful [William Donohue may be [...].





*Apologies to Woody Allen and any of his fans.
**Since there is no actual historical evidence of Jesus Christ ever having lived - just a few meagre hints about great numbers of seers proclaiming themselves prophets or even the Messiah - anybody can do anything with this literary figure.
 

Don Lashier

New member
Does this thread now qualify for Godwin's Law? (pardon my bad form).

I had a best friend once (since died) would would go into a rage against Catholics whenever he got plastered - but he had an excuse - he was brought up in Catholic schools and every summer his parents sent him off to a Catholic Monastary. Poor bastard, no wonder he died of alcoholism at an early age..

- DL
 
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Dierk Haasis

pro member
Don Lashier said:
Does this thread now qualify for Godwin's Law? (pardon my bad form).

No, it doesn't. The Hitler-Nazi theme is not a comparison, particularly not one where Asher or I liken each other to them. It developed from the politics of Mel Gibson's father, which are instrumental in Mel's latest misbehaviour.

What happened in this thread may better be likened to 'feature creep'. I still find it highly interesting and on topic, BTW. Instead of taking the easy way out - stop short because going deeper is too exhausting, in Usenet parlance: Dead Horse or Off Topic - we try to come to grips what brought an American-Australian-American film star to his behaviour, and us to think we can judge him.

I, for my part, learned that Asher's reason was not the celebrity status of MG itself [in which case it would have just been a case of envy: "Look, he's just a slob."] but the overall politics and opinions of him.

Given the current situation of the world, leaving many in a confused state about what is happening, what are we fighting for, what will globalistation do to us and so on, I find it quite nice to have a forum and a thread where we can dig a little bit deeper. A forum not specifically dedicated to politics, religion, philosophy, sociology, but visited by real people leading to a discussion containing a good mix of theory (my part) and pragmatics.
 
Don Lashier said:
Does this thread now qualify for Godwin's Law? (

- DL

Nope. Godwin observed that any Internet discussion that is sufficiently heated and sustained approaches Hitler-centricity with probability one. This one started there, because of Gibson's particular obsessions.

Godwin recommended that such threads be closed once the H-word has been uttered because further discussion would be confused and inflammatory. This one has stayed civil, although I don't see much more to be said on the subject.

scott
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
This forum, IMHO, works. It allows free expression in a decent well thought out manner. There are no "handles' for insults to hide behind. No hit and run!

Asher
 

Chuck Fry

New member
Asher Kelman said:
However, he's too rich, charming and successful, so he gets away with it, blaming everything on ETOH.

I don't know about you, but I've witnessed people doing some very bizarre and out-of-character things when very drunk.

If you re-read Gibson's statements since the arrest, he owns up to the fact that he has had a long struggle with alcoholism. I don't read this as "forgive me, the booze made me do it" but as "I knew it was going to screw me up if I drank, then I drank anyway, and now I know I must make restitution". I don't see any of the blame-shifting and finger-pointing that so often occurs in celebrity arrests.

Certainly Gibson's behavior hasn't been admirable, but I find the Anti-Defamation League's response to be positively incendiary. Fortunately in the last few minutes the ADL has issued a press release accepting Mel's apology.

I would hope the members of this forum can forgive a fellow human being for his mistakes, just as you would hope your own are forgiven.
 

Dierk Haasis

pro member
Anybody seen the brilliant take of Stephen Colbert on the MG-sit? Or the much more subdued but equally as biting remark of Jon Steward ("I invited him for today's show[...] he didn't want to come. ... Maybe he just hates Jews.")?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Chuck!

"Not admirable"? Where did you find this descriptor?

Why would you replace "disgusting" with such words.

Why "stuggling with alcoholism" replacing "criminally" reckless driving 80 mph threatening every other person on the road?

People who are poor get to be dumped in jail. Nobody redacts and rewites reports.

Forget the antisemitism, how about the mistreatment of a trained educated respected officer as a piece of sexual trivialty?

Again "not admirable"?

I am not interested, at this time in his so-called "struggle with alcoholism".

I will not forgive him until he shows by deeds that he has changed his behavior.

"Stuggled" with disease applies to people that are dedicated to overcome disbilities and tragedy.

Here, "struggle with alcoholism", I'm afraid, is a shroud to cover over his normally held feelings, beliefs and attitude.

So I wouldn't choose "hasn't been admirable" rather "has been aweful"!

Had he been "struggling" he would have given up his driving license long ago!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
A good quote Chuck, but not in context. Anyway, it doesn't address "hasn't been admirable" to describe his reckless driving at 80 MPH, or his poisonous racist outbursts.

In any case, lhe lady in the story, about to be stoned, had hurt herself not others. But that is the story.

Here, we are in the real world.

We have a perfect right, no I should say, responsibilty, to denounce M.G. or any other racist. Admission, accountability, change in behavior and restitution commensurate with his wealth, would go a long way to him earning himself forgiveness.

There are many worthier causes for us to give gifts to!

Asher

(BTW, that story is for sure allegorical, since, no court issued such death sentences. A mob, perhaps, who knows? A court has to have 3 sober people warn the person beforehand that what they were about to do is wrong and a crime and could result in punishement).
 
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