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Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!
Bullwinkel
- Thread starter Ron Morse
- Start date
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Ron,
They are very impressive. Could you say which ones are best?
If you were going to keep only 4 which would you keep? Write that down and email me, then maybe we could have a poll! We'll see how your ideas match with everyone elses, What do you think?
Asher
They are very impressive. Could you say which ones are best?
If you were going to keep only 4 which would you keep? Write that down and email me, then maybe we could have a poll! We'll see how your ideas match with everyone elses, What do you think?
Asher
Before commenting on the photography aspect, I hope you took the time to experience this exciting event. I know I have a definite tendency to get so involved in photography that I forget to live in the moment and drink in a unique experience like this. Even if it means missing a few shots, I personally think it's important to put down the camera, and fully experience a moment like this.
Second, this series illustrates what I find to be the most tedious/frustrating aspect of my photography, and one of the somewhat unique downsides of shooting digitally - you can come back with a huge number of images to sort through! Sometimes there is one or two "killer" shots, and the job is relatively easy, but quite often there is a large number of shots, each of which has some virtue and some defect(s), many of which are quite similar, and choosing which to keep can drive me crazy.
I find that I get more and more demanding as time goes on, and my delete finger gets lots of exercise. I don't know how many times I've had to give a 'thumbs down' to shots that were "close but no cigar"! But as frustrating as it can be, I push myself, and really try to keep only the best images. I'll make exceptions for unique species or situations, and keep an image with faults that would ordinarily justify deletion, to have a record of something, or as a memory keep-sake. But in a situation like this, I would try hard to cull down to the one or two images that are truly worth keeping.
One of the first things I key in on is whether or not the eye is in virtually perfect focus. My personal standard, widely but probably not universally held, is that if the eye isn't in focus, the image isn't worth keeping. At the very least it has to be close enough that judicious post-processing can save the day.
On this basis, I would save the 2nd image in the overall series, and the last. I might also keep the first image in your second post.
The next criteria I use would be overall composition, background, exposure, etc. Fortunately, in this series the 2 (or 3) with the best focus also seem to excel by these standards as well.
I also hope you were shooting Raw, as I think that the "keeper" images have it in them to be improved considerably in terms of white balance (these look a bit on the 'cool' side to me), shadow detail and overall tonality, sharpening, etc. I wouldn't mind having a crack at the Raw files of one of these.
Overall, I think you have 2 or 3 images definitely worth keeping, that capture the uniqueness of an experience like this.
Second, this series illustrates what I find to be the most tedious/frustrating aspect of my photography, and one of the somewhat unique downsides of shooting digitally - you can come back with a huge number of images to sort through! Sometimes there is one or two "killer" shots, and the job is relatively easy, but quite often there is a large number of shots, each of which has some virtue and some defect(s), many of which are quite similar, and choosing which to keep can drive me crazy.
I find that I get more and more demanding as time goes on, and my delete finger gets lots of exercise. I don't know how many times I've had to give a 'thumbs down' to shots that were "close but no cigar"! But as frustrating as it can be, I push myself, and really try to keep only the best images. I'll make exceptions for unique species or situations, and keep an image with faults that would ordinarily justify deletion, to have a record of something, or as a memory keep-sake. But in a situation like this, I would try hard to cull down to the one or two images that are truly worth keeping.
One of the first things I key in on is whether or not the eye is in virtually perfect focus. My personal standard, widely but probably not universally held, is that if the eye isn't in focus, the image isn't worth keeping. At the very least it has to be close enough that judicious post-processing can save the day.
On this basis, I would save the 2nd image in the overall series, and the last. I might also keep the first image in your second post.
The next criteria I use would be overall composition, background, exposure, etc. Fortunately, in this series the 2 (or 3) with the best focus also seem to excel by these standards as well.
I also hope you were shooting Raw, as I think that the "keeper" images have it in them to be improved considerably in terms of white balance (these look a bit on the 'cool' side to me), shadow detail and overall tonality, sharpening, etc. I wouldn't mind having a crack at the Raw files of one of these.
Overall, I think you have 2 or 3 images definitely worth keeping, that capture the uniqueness of an experience like this.
Asher Kelman said:
Asher,
Thank you. As far as the best shots I can honestly say that I am not proud of a single picture. My one and only reason for posting them is to share a, I think, fairly unique experiance.
I can e-mail you what in my opinion are the best of these not so good shots.
As I said in my 20D post I am having major problems with focus that I always blamed on myself until I used my cousins D2X and last week his new D80.
Don,
As I said in my answer to Asher I am not happy with any of these. I only posted them to show the moment.
Arter I took a couple of shots I looked at the LCD and could see the old focus problem rearing its head again. The moose was standing still. I was standing still. I was using the 70-200 f2.8 with the IS on at not 100 feet. I tried all the focus points then the last 4 shown were with center focus point only I think. I was getting so frustrated that While I intended to zoom in I forgot and kept shooting at 70mm.
All I did with these is process one in DPP and copy the recipe to the rest since I was so discouraged. I usually like to frame my shots well but these are all a big crop.
I went from film straight to the 20D and have had nothing but focus problems unless I am right on top of something. I was convinced it was me until I used my cousins D2X and his new D80. Both gave me excellent pictures.
I have taken probable 10,000 tropical fish and aquarium pictures and am very confident of the results every time other than the pose or a fish getting out of the flash zone. I shoot horse shows almost every weekend during the summer and have a high percentage of out of focus shots that I delete.
I am not great at PS so if I have to spend more than 5 minutes on a shot I just delete it.
Since the horse shows are over for the season I'm waiting to see what canon comes out with early in 2007 and I will have a new camera. Probably a new 1DMIIN or replacement.
Tell me which raw and I will gladly send it where ever you direct me.
As I said in my answer to Asher I am not happy with any of these. I only posted them to show the moment.
Arter I took a couple of shots I looked at the LCD and could see the old focus problem rearing its head again. The moose was standing still. I was standing still. I was using the 70-200 f2.8 with the IS on at not 100 feet. I tried all the focus points then the last 4 shown were with center focus point only I think. I was getting so frustrated that While I intended to zoom in I forgot and kept shooting at 70mm.
All I did with these is process one in DPP and copy the recipe to the rest since I was so discouraged. I usually like to frame my shots well but these are all a big crop.
I went from film straight to the 20D and have had nothing but focus problems unless I am right on top of something. I was convinced it was me until I used my cousins D2X and his new D80. Both gave me excellent pictures.
I have taken probable 10,000 tropical fish and aquarium pictures and am very confident of the results every time other than the pose or a fish getting out of the flash zone. I shoot horse shows almost every weekend during the summer and have a high percentage of out of focus shots that I delete.
I am not great at PS so if I have to spend more than 5 minutes on a shot I just delete it.
Since the horse shows are over for the season I'm waiting to see what canon comes out with early in 2007 and I will have a new camera. Probably a new 1DMIIN or replacement.
Tell me which raw and I will gladly send it where ever you direct me.
Don Cohen said:
I sent it Don but got this message back.
dlc@dlcphoto.com
Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 12): 558 sorry, that message size exceeds my databytes limit (#5.3.4)
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Don, Why don't you repost it for him with a link in the Retouch forum to be optimized. Your evaluation is so on the the right track! This by the way, is one of those opportunities for the agile and aring and not for the tripod bound.
Ron decide whether or not to give a Title (and mood, meaning you have in mind) and so define something of where the image should end up thematically, or else give no title. In the latter case, we will optimize it according to just our own free inspiration coming from this unique picture.
Next, Ron, We'll try to think of some simple ways you can get going in PS with the least pain.
That will be a good topic for the Introduction to Digital Photography Forum and if you post there, we'll start you off with some basic steps helpful links.
You have an impressive start!
Asher
Ron decide whether or not to give a Title (and mood, meaning you have in mind) and so define something of where the image should end up thematically, or else give no title. In the latter case, we will optimize it according to just our own free inspiration coming from this unique picture.
Next, Ron, We'll try to think of some simple ways you can get going in PS with the least pain.
That will be a good topic for the Introduction to Digital Photography Forum and if you post there, we'll start you off with some basic steps helpful links.
You have an impressive start!
Asher
Ron,
Looks like your ISP limits email file size, preventing you from sending. The limit for mine is 10mb/email, so if it's bigger than that, mine would stop it as well.
Two options (at least):
Your ISP should provide some webspace for personal website, etc. You can find out through them how much, how to post, etc. You can then provide a link to it, and I or anybody else can download it.
There are public sites to upload, many of which for free I believe, so you can use one of these. I haven't used them, but have seen others using them, so don't know the URL's or names off-hand - can anybody recommend a public site for Ron to upload his image?
Asher - I'll be happy to post a link, etc. in the Retouch forum if Ron can find a way to get it posted.
Best,
Looks like your ISP limits email file size, preventing you from sending. The limit for mine is 10mb/email, so if it's bigger than that, mine would stop it as well.
Two options (at least):
Your ISP should provide some webspace for personal website, etc. You can find out through them how much, how to post, etc. You can then provide a link to it, and I or anybody else can download it.
There are public sites to upload, many of which for free I believe, so you can use one of these. I haven't used them, but have seen others using them, so don't know the URL's or names off-hand - can anybody recommend a public site for Ron to upload his image?
Asher - I'll be happy to post a link, etc. in the Retouch forum if Ron can find a way to get it posted.
Best,
Curious, Ron; I was pretty sure my per email limit is 10mb. Let's try a different email address:
doncohen at adelphia dot net.
If it recurs, I'll research it further with my ISP's.
(BTW, the reason I make the address a bit 'cryptic' is to reduce the chance of the email address being picked up by 'webbots' leading to even more spam than I already get!).
doncohen at adelphia dot net.
If it recurs, I'll research it further with my ISP's.
(BTW, the reason I make the address a bit 'cryptic' is to reduce the chance of the email address being picked up by 'webbots' leading to even more spam than I already get!).
Your end wouldn't accept it again Don.
Message this time.
Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 12): 552 Message size exceeds fixed maximum message size: 10485760 bytes
(BTW, the reason I make the address a bit 'cryptic' is to reduce the chance of the email address being picked up by 'webbots' leading to even more spam than I already get!).
Point taken.
Message this time.
Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 12): 552 Message size exceeds fixed maximum message size: 10485760 bytes
(BTW, the reason I make the address a bit 'cryptic' is to reduce the chance of the email address being picked up by 'webbots' leading to even more spam than I already get!).
Point taken.
Hi Ron,
Yup - received just fine. Sorry for the delay, but I've been out for the evening (playing Volleyball, my primary other passion besides photography!).
It's about time for me to hit the sack, and I'm in the office all day tomorrow, with another volleyball game in the evening. So it may be a day or two before I can get it posted to my site, create a post/link for it here, etc. Maybe quicker, but I wanted to let you know I got it.
BTW, where in Maine are you? We spent 10 weeks near Waterville, ME during my ophthalmology residency, and absolutely loved it. We vacation from time to time in Bar Harbor, and have been a few other places in Maine and New England (in addition to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick) for photography.
Best,
Yup - received just fine. Sorry for the delay, but I've been out for the evening (playing Volleyball, my primary other passion besides photography!).
It's about time for me to hit the sack, and I'm in the office all day tomorrow, with another volleyball game in the evening. So it may be a day or two before I can get it posted to my site, create a post/link for it here, etc. Maybe quicker, but I wanted to let you know I got it.
BTW, where in Maine are you? We spent 10 weeks near Waterville, ME during my ophthalmology residency, and absolutely loved it. We vacation from time to time in Bar Harbor, and have been a few other places in Maine and New England (in addition to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick) for photography.
Best,
I just stopped by the comp on the way to bed myself.
We live in the Bangor Brewer area. Before I retired 2 years ago I traveled extensively. Sometimes gone for over a year. Now I hate to leave Maine for more than a few days.
Another shot where I was getting looked over pretty close.
Don't judge by the animals left eye. It is blue so I would say that he got blinded in that eye by a branch or something. Maybe I shouldn't be telling you anything about eyes Don.
We live in the Bangor Brewer area. Before I retired 2 years ago I traveled extensively. Sometimes gone for over a year. Now I hate to leave Maine for more than a few days.
Another shot where I was getting looked over pretty close.
Don't judge by the animals left eye. It is blue so I would say that he got blinded in that eye by a branch or something. Maybe I shouldn't be telling you anything about eyes Don.
OK, found some time while eating lunch, and uploaded the original Raw file here:
http://www.dlcphoto.com/Temp/Morse_9764.CR2
If you download it, you may get a .TIFF extension - just change it to CR2 manually to work with it.
FWIW, here is my version of it. I cropped it a little wider, to give a greater sense of the beautiful setting, adjusted color balance, used some Shadows/Highlights Tool, Levels, Saturation, and Unsharp Mask (selectively sharpening the moose's eye/head as well).
One other observation - looking at the EXIF data, I found an aperture of f/2.8, shutter speed 1/30 second, and ISO 200. Even with the 70-200's wonderful IS, I would consider 1/30 second borderline at best to get acceptably sharp images in a situation like this, and would suggest bumping up to 400 or even 800. I would much rather deal with noise in post-processing in order to have a shutter speed more conducive to giving me a sharp image.
Ron - I'll leave it up to you if you would like to start a new thread in the Retouching forum, giving the link to the raw file there, as I didn't feel comfortable doing it myself, since it's your image, and I really don't know if this is the direction you would like to go. If you'd rather leave all the discussion here, that's just fine with me as well.
To me, you ended up with a few very nice moose images!
http://www.dlcphoto.com/Temp/Morse_9764.CR2
If you download it, you may get a .TIFF extension - just change it to CR2 manually to work with it.
FWIW, here is my version of it. I cropped it a little wider, to give a greater sense of the beautiful setting, adjusted color balance, used some Shadows/Highlights Tool, Levels, Saturation, and Unsharp Mask (selectively sharpening the moose's eye/head as well).
One other observation - looking at the EXIF data, I found an aperture of f/2.8, shutter speed 1/30 second, and ISO 200. Even with the 70-200's wonderful IS, I would consider 1/30 second borderline at best to get acceptably sharp images in a situation like this, and would suggest bumping up to 400 or even 800. I would much rather deal with noise in post-processing in order to have a shutter speed more conducive to giving me a sharp image.
Ron - I'll leave it up to you if you would like to start a new thread in the Retouching forum, giving the link to the raw file there, as I didn't feel comfortable doing it myself, since it's your image, and I really don't know if this is the direction you would like to go. If you'd rather leave all the discussion here, that's just fine with me as well.
To me, you ended up with a few very nice moose images!
Nill Toulme
New member
Interesting comments on culling Don. You think you have culling problems — I usually come home from a sports event with 1000 to 1500 frames!
As you say, many of the choices are easy and it gets easier the more you do it. FWIW, though, one thing that has helped me a lot on the "marginal" shots is the "Ten Second Rule" that somebody graciously tipped me to a couple of years ago. That is, if you find yourself looking at an image for more than ten seconds trying to decide whether it's a keeper — it isn't. That guideline has saved me a lot of wasted seconds ever since. ;-)
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
As you say, many of the choices are easy and it gets easier the more you do it. FWIW, though, one thing that has helped me a lot on the "marginal" shots is the "Ten Second Rule" that somebody graciously tipped me to a couple of years ago. That is, if you find yourself looking at an image for more than ten seconds trying to decide whether it's a keeper — it isn't. That guideline has saved me a lot of wasted seconds ever since. ;-)
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
Don Cohen said:OK, found some time while eating lunch, and uploaded the original Raw file here:
http://www.dlcphoto.com/Temp/Morse_9764.CR2
If you download it, you may get a .TIFF extension - just change it to CR2 manually to work with it.
FWIW, here is my version of it. I cropped it a little wider, to give a greater sense of the beautiful setting, adjusted color balance, used some Shadows/Highlights Tool, Levels, Saturation, and Unsharp Mask (selectively sharpening the moose's eye/head as well).
One other observation - looking at the EXIF data, I found an aperture of f/2.8, shutter speed 1/30 second, and ISO 200. Even with the 70-200's wonderful IS, I would consider 1/30 second borderline at best to get acceptably sharp images in a situation like this, and would suggest bumping up to 400 or even 800. I would much rather deal with noise in post-processing in order to have a shutter speed more conducive to giving me a sharp image.
Ron - I'll leave it up to you if you would like to start a new thread in the Retouching forum, giving the link to the raw file there, as I didn't feel comfortable doing it myself, since it's your image, and I really don't know if this is the direction you would like to go. If you'd rather leave all the discussion here, that's just fine with me as well.
To me, you ended up with a few very nice moose images!
Don,
By all means put them in the retouch forum. I would love to see what everyone does with it.
I agree with the ISO and I would have done different if I could see it in the viewfinder all the time.
A problem that I had with all these shots is that I had rotator cuff surgery 3 1/2 weeks before. My doctor told me not to use the camera for 6 weeks. I had to lean backwards trying to get the bulk of the weight on my left arm but it was still a fairly painful ordeal to get the shots. With the pain and excitement I didn't notice the shutter speed and even forgot to zoom in to fill the frame.
As far as the picture goes. You very much improved on the detail. A big improvement over my quick version. The color is, I think, a little too warm in your version judging by what I saw. I think the color was closer actually to what I had but lacking as a photo compaired to what you did.
Nill - that "10 Second Rule" sounds like a great idea!
Ron - When I was posting my 'interpretation' I was about to change it again, thinking the same thing, that it was a bit too "warm" but got ran a bit short on time, and went ahead as it was! Sometimes I'll tweak the color balance to please my eye, instead of trying to precisely duplicate the conditions - a little "artistic license" I suppose
I'll go ahead and start a thread in the Retouching forum, include a link to the Raw file, and see what we get!
BTW, I'll sometimes use a Monopod when shooting with the 70-200 or 100-400 - gives me a bit more stability while maintaining maneuverability, and makes it a little easier on the arms!
Ron - When I was posting my 'interpretation' I was about to change it again, thinking the same thing, that it was a bit too "warm" but got ran a bit short on time, and went ahead as it was! Sometimes I'll tweak the color balance to please my eye, instead of trying to precisely duplicate the conditions - a little "artistic license" I suppose
I'll go ahead and start a thread in the Retouching forum, include a link to the Raw file, and see what we get!
BTW, I'll sometimes use a Monopod when shooting with the 70-200 or 100-400 - gives me a bit more stability while maintaining maneuverability, and makes it a little easier on the arms!