some beautyful panoramas:

http://www.autopano.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=18854#p18854

best, Klaus

p.s.: sorry maybe this had to be in "travel" . . !? I put it here, cause it´s stitched and rendered.

Klaus Esser said:

http://www.autopano.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=18854#p18854

best, Klaus

p.s.: sorry maybe this had to be in "travel" . . !? I put it here, cause it´s stitched and rendered.

Click to expand...

Klaus,

Which are your pictures? There's so many of them? Are you "TAF"?

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Klaus,

Which are your pictures? There's so many of them? Are you "TAF"?

Asher

Click to expand...

Bonsoir Asher
no, he is "klausesser"

I assume Klaus did post this link for our pleasure to see the panos…

Asher Kelman said:

Klaus,

Which are your pictures? There's so many of them? Are you "TAF"?

Asher

Click to expand...

Hi Asher, hi Nicolas!

No - i´m really sorry . . whish i´d have made them . . ;-)

The point is: he shot without a tripod, not to speak of a pano-head, and the results are great - i think.
Besides of the wonderful locations and light.
Very often there´s a situation you think: "ah man, i would need a real wideangle lens". And you don´t have one. Then you may think: "oh, man - would i only have packed a tripod and panohead . . . "
In such situations: don´t be afraid to shoot a range of pictures in one or some rows by hand and stitch them nevertheless. It can work - as you see . . . and you can produce very highres pictures with a very wide angle. Using your standard camera and lens.

Most actual stitch-programs provide enough tolerance for shooting hand-held.

best, Klaus

Hi Klauss

good to see you back here!

I will be in Dusseldorf for the Boot Messe (I have a stand there) from Jan.19 to 27 would be nice to meet! PM me if you have some time for…

Klaus Esser said:

Hi Asher, hi Nicolas!

No - i´m really sorry . . whish i´d have made them . . ;-)

The point is: he shot without a tripod, not to speak of a pano-head, and the results are great - i think.
Besides of the wonderful locations and light.
Very often there´s a situation you think: "ah man, i would need a real wideangle lens". And you don´t have one. Then you may think: "oh, man - would i only have packed a tripod and panohead . . . "
In such situations: don´t be afraid to shoot a range of pictures in one or some rows by hand and stitch them nevertheless. It can work - as you see . . . and you can produce very highres pictures with a very wide angle. Using your standard camera and lens.

Most actual stitch-programs provide enough tolerance for shooting hand-held.

best, Klaus

Click to expand...

Now I undestand you Klaus!

I only use one lens most of the time and stich with APP. It really is easy. Of course, a rigid system will be better!

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

I only use one lens most of the time and stich with APP. It really is easy. Of course, a rigid system will be better!

Click to expand...

While a specific pano rotation setup will cause fewer problems in postprocessing (especially in foreground parallax), a bit of shooting technique can help handheld shots.

Important: Do not rotate/pivot around your neck, but pivot around an imaginary point (entry pupil) that's approximately* located at 2x the focal length in front of the film/sensor plane, on the optical axis.

* Approximately, because the actual location depends on the optical design of the lens, and focus distance.

Bart

Nicolas Claris said:

Hi Klauss

good to see you back here!

I will be in Dusseldorf for the Boot Messe (I have a stand there) from Jan.19 to 27 would be nice to meet! PM me if you have some time for…

Click to expand...

Hi Nicolas!

That would be fun! I´ll send you a PM!

best, Klaus

Asher Kelman said:

Exactly, Bart, that's what I do. I swing my imaginary optical axis point 2" in front of the lens. Here's an example. This is part of a recent shoot in Colarado. I did a shoot with 3 Brazilian Girls and this is the place where I did the shoot. So while they were climbing down, I made this quick pano of a whole bunch of portrait images. Exact no I'll add later with EXIF.

Asher

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Hi Asher!

Great shot! But - where are the Brazilian girls ?
Lucky you to have those landscapes in Colorado - we here in the Duesseldorf area don´t even have the snow . . . ;-)

best, Klaus

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

While a specific pano rotation setup will cause fewer problems in postprocessing (especially in foreground parallax), a bit of shooting technique can help handheld shots.

Important: Do not rotate/pivot around your neck, but pivot around an imaginary point (entry pupil) that's approximately* located at 2x the focal length in front of the film/sensor plane, on the optical axis.

* Approximately, because the actual location depends on the optical design of the lens, and focus distance.

Bart

Click to expand...

Hi Bart!

Right! I did a sperical pano by handheld - about 60 shots. I used the outer AF-fields of my 20D as markers and rotated arround my forefoot/toes (?). Used a 20mm Nikons-lens.
I think i showed it here already - if i did not:

http://www.klausesser.de/platzvr.htm (needs Shockwave)

I really was surprised how easy it worked.

best, Klaus

Asher Kelman said:

Here is the pano in color, still assymetical: ...

I prefer to leave the image assymetrcial, however, there is discomfort in soing so,

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Hi Asher,

How about using the last crop, but including the left side of the earlier image. That would IMHO offer a better balance between diagonals leading the eye into the image (bottom left to top right, maintain asymmetry, and yet keep the right hand side interesting enough to avoid wandering out of the image (you then might even consider darkening the right hand edge a bit, similar to the original left edge, to assist in creating a natural perceptual boundary).

Bart

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

Hi Asher,

How about using the last crop, but including the left side of the earlier image. That would IMHO offer a better balance between diagonals leading the eye into the image (bottom left to top right, maintain asymmetry, and yet keep the right hand side interesting enough to avoid wandering out of the image (you then might even consider darkening the right hand edge a bit, similar to the original left edge, to assist in creating a natural perceptual boundary).

Click to expand...

I wondered whether you'd ask for this, Bart!


Asher

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

(you then might even consider darkening the right hand edge a bit, similar to the original left edge, to assist in creating a natural perceptual boundary).

Click to expand...

Bart,

Thanks for venturing to join me by this cold waterfall! The picture is now relit!

Asher

Please feel free to comment on the waterfall.

I'm now going to present a hand held 21 shot 3 row freezing cold but fun pano of the mountainside just before one descends to the frozen Boulder water falls. The girls turned up over 3 hours late, but when they came they were very enthusiastic so we bundled in a car and raced off to the canyons as the light was fading. They we so excited to be part of this very fast tourist's shoot.

BTW, a wooden or carbon fiber monopod with a spike would have been a major help! I'll remember for next time. The issue was not slipping on the ice and getting pictures fast.



This picture is 500 MB and very sharp, ~ 30" wide at 300 dpi. This jpg is a of course compressed down a lot! I take the picture of the girls either the last shot in the series. That's why they are in hysterics, never having scene someone machine gunning a mountain with a camera!

I promise you it was a blast. I hope you enjoy this too.

Asher

Hi Asher

I love the composition of this last one, the diagonals created by the moon/girls, top of the hill on LHS and the bridge, looks like you had great fun. I note that you used AutoPano Pro, is this easy to use?

I go to Scotland just after the New Year, hoping for some cold weather, so far the winter has been generally mild here, being a lover of winter I would have loved being where you were. We'll be visiting Glencoe amongst other areas while we're away, so hopefully I'll have some good Pano's to show you when I come back in about 4 weeks time, Happy New Year to you and all at OPF.

janet Smith said:

I note that you used AutoPano Pro, is this easy to use?

Click to expand...

Hi Janet,

Just like all applications, and especially the specialized ones, it takes getting used to. Once you start getting comfortable with the jargon, it's easy enough to use. When you intend to do a lot of stitching, the automation is a real timesaver and the results are quite good.

Taking 'good' images with the intent to stitch to start with, pays off in terms of automation results. The sloppier the image taking is prepared, the more manual intervention will be needed.

APP has a new 1.4 version out, it looks good.

Bart

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

Just like all applications, and especially the specialized ones, it takes getting used to. Once you start getting comfortable with the jargon, it's easy enough to use. When you intend to do a lot of stitching, the automation is a real timesaver and the results are quite good.

Taking 'good' images with the intent to stitch to start with, pays off in terms of automation results. The sloppier the image taking is prepared, the more manual intervention will be needed.

Click to expand...

For sure, Bart, you are correct! I could have done much better with a mechanical setup so my total composition would not be at the mercy of my memory as to whether or not some edge was properly covered.

Free-hand picture taking saves time. However it does add more effort at the other end when one has to deliver the final picture. One sheet of 8x10 film would have been more efficent. However, using just one lens with such a compact versatile camera is amazing, versatile and almost limitless for the creative photographer.

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

APP has a new 1.4 version out, it looks good.

Click to expand...

What's new? I wish APP would have more tutorials. I still find a lot of the possibilites just out of range. Even what tutorials they have are not so easy to use since these require other software to work but they don't specify what is needed. When people give out PDF's, there's usually a button to download a reader.

I wonder whether the digital mafia who make their livelhood as gurus have yet made DVD's on APP?

Still, there is such a thrill each time I assemble a pano with APP. I out them on my MacBook Pro and then use my G5 tower to do other work or have dinner and when I return, my Panos are there.

It's at that time that I know whether I have made goofs. These are much less now as I implemet my philosophy of always grabbing much more than I ever think I'd need. Guess what, everything is needed!

Why? Sometimes the beauty one sees is so only because of the context made by what surounds it.

Asher

janet Smith said:

Hi Asher

Hi Asher

I love the composition of this last one, the diagonals created by the moon/girls, top of the hill on LHS and the bridge, looks like you had great fun. I note that you used AutoPano Pro, is this easy to use?

Click to expand...

YES!

Janet, you'll find APP is so easy to use. You can literally dump a whole hard drive into the program. It would mean that you have given away you computer to French gremlins for a day. So APP can recognize by the time and lens used a set of images. You can set the number of points the program will need to find in adjacent images. One can even choose between different algorithms. However, there is no easy way og finding a reason to use one method over another. Still, even with this disclaimer, the program is easy to use, but harder to get really expert on. So taking advantage of tools to correct for Yaw or verticals etc is not so obvious at all.

Don't waste time doing panos that you didn't take with care. It's so easy to take pictures properly. All in manual, never leave the camera to choose its own shutter speed or aperture. As long as you do that and don't wave the camera around, your pictures will wow you.

janet Smith said:

I go to Scotland just after the New Year, hoping for some cold weather, so far the winter has been generally mild here, being a lover of winter I would have loved being where you were. We'll be visiting Glencoe amongst other areas while we're away, so hopefully I'll have some good Pano's to show you when I come back in about 4 weeks time, Happy New Year to you and all at OPF.

Click to expand...

Good luck in Scotland. I have such a romantic fairy tale image of Scotland with "Speed bonnie boat" and images of Purple Heather, and Mountain Thyme in those ballads.

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

YES! Janet, you'll find APP is so easy to use. You can literally dump a whole hard drive into the program. It would mean that you have given away you computer to French gremlins for a day.............Good luck in Scotland. I have such a romantic fairy tale image of Scotland with "Speed bonnie boat" and images of Purple Heather, and Mountain Thyme in those ballads

Click to expand...

Hi Asher

Thank you for this, I will have to have a go with APP, I promise to do everything manually, always use my tripod etc. hopefully I'll bring back something good, fairy tale castles and all! We'll be going to Castle Tioram & Castle Stalker and maybe a few more, fingers crossed for beautiful dawns & sunsets, and still windless moonlit nights, how I wish for the Aurora (never been lucky yet!) Think of me lugging all that gear up some hill somewhere!

It is not absolutely necessary to use a tripod, not to use a Pano stage. However, with each step you take from hand-held add a level of better order and less distortion and ultimately better resolution.

So good luck Janet.

Asher

janet Smith said:

... I promise to do everything manually, always use my tripod etc.

Click to expand...

Hi Janet,

If anything, keep your aperture constant. If not, then your 'tiles' will have different DOF which can cause problems when blending the overlapping areas. Keeping focus constant will usually help as well. When you also keep your shutter time the same, the exposure becomes constant which will be easier to blend without visible brightness seams, although there are some advanced tweaks possible to circumvent that.

Tripods may help with longer exposures (in general anyway), but they don't pivot in the correct position for panoramas without dedicated pano hardware. The problems will be mostly in the foreground areas. Tele shots are most forgiving.

The larger the differences (exposure, clouds movement, people in image, rotation errors) between tiles are, the larger the overlap needs to be. Normally something like 10-30% overlap with some detail should be enough, 50% or more in 'dynamic' situations. It also helps to shoot the tiles in the opposite direction of major movement (clouds, people, traffic), because it will reduce multiple appearances and repeated structures.

Looking forwards to the results. Scotland is still on my list.

Bart

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

If anything, keep your aperture constant. If not, then your 'tiles' will have different DOF which can cause problems when blending the overlapping areas. Keeping focus constant will usually help as well. When you also keep your shutter time the same, the exposure becomes constant which will be easier to blend without visible brightness seams, although there are some advanced tweaks possible to circumvent that............Looking forwards to the results. Scotland is still on my list

Click to expand...

Hi Bart

Wonderfully detailed information, thank you very much, last time I took some shots up in the far NW of Scotland in June the light was very intense with great variation from very bright to a little more shaded despite using manual settings as I moved around the resulting blended Pano showed banding at the seams, you mention possible tweaks to circumvent that, could you explain what these are?

Yes, you'll no doubt have read about my going up to Scotland all the time, I fell in love with Scotland as a child, that love has never changed, there are beautiful white beaches, mountainous areas, and Lochs everywhere, if ever you are going let me know and I'll let you know some great places to visit....... Our next trip up is going to be to the Isle of Harris, which has loads of huge white beaches and few people, not everyone's 'cup of tea' weather can be bad, not much to do but chill out and walk, but suits us perfectly......

Thank you for your help, which is very much appreciated.

janet Smith said:

... banding at the seams, you mention possible tweaks to circumvent that, could you explain what these are?

Click to expand...

It's difficult with APP, it's easier with some less automated stitchers which require/allow more manual intervention. I usally choose 'Smartblend' as the actual blending engine, which already does a good job, and it allows optional parameters to influence the smoothness of the luminosity transition between tiles. I've yet to find out how to modify the optional parameters in APP, because I've mostly used PTAssembler (MS Windows only) for my stitching.

In extreme cases Smartblend can level the brightness differences quite well, but it will require a large overlap, 50% or more.

You can also play with the individual tiles themselves before stitching, adding a luminosity gradient to reduce the tile-to-tile differences. As said, preparation before shooting will save a lot of time afterwards.

Bart

Hi Janet,

One problem, is if there are clouds moving in front of the sun during the exposure period. So, you either need to wait for a big enough gap, or a big enough cloud, or wait for the next gap/next cloud and hope the light is the same. (clouds effect the brightness, and the nature (diffusion/colour) of the light. Other than that, if it's distant views with nothing of interest in the foreground, you can stitch together almost anything, even change position, for the sort of views you will probably be taking. It is entirely different for architecture, foreground interest, and so on, where greater precision is needed. As Bart is basically saying, set everything to manual, use plenty of overlap.

Best wishes,

Ray

Hi Bart & Ray

Thank you both for more really helpful information, I'll be bearing all this in mind and will hopefully bring back something good to show you. I'll remember to allow plenty of overlap, think I'm going to print all this off and take it with me..........

Fingers crossed for snow and ice!