In Perspective, Planet: Something interesting.

I found this very interesting. Maybe you might too.

Wonderful

Regards.

fahim mohammed said:

I found this very interesting. Maybe you might too.

Wonderful

Regards.

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Such videos are not new or really unique. I don't even know that the video is entirely done from MRI images and not from artistic rendering, especially, the infant acrobatically moving in the pelvis so as to escape and be born. There are major ethical concerns. I am more than a little surprised at the idea of doing MRI studies of a fetus. Is it safe? What might it do to future generations? Did they first do MRI studies in mice or chicks to check it was without bad consequences? Next Alexander Tsiaras seems to claim to have won a nobel Prize, but I can't find him in a search of the Official nobel Prize website.

I find this to be of the sort of self-promotion that is deceiving. It starts by describing how the "baby" divides into two cells as if the baby existed, whereas in fact the baby is merely, at this stage a potential future and experiment! Many times the developing egg doesn't work and is lost. What's special about the egg is that for those that develop and survive birth then from that point on there's a human being. Until then, it's a possibility. Certainly, when the fetus is developing, the mother should not take drugs and excess alcohol and have good nutrition if she wishes to have a healthy child. Despite all that good intent, a fertilized egg is not a person and not a baby. Saying so with pretty images, does not make it so. notice how the images have been optimized, likely as not graphically altered. There's no evidence, for example of sex organs, male or female, that I have noticed, indicating that the work is propaganda and not a scientific endeavor.

When there are just one or a few cells, once the undifferentiated cell divides, that could be split into 2 growing cell masses or 4 or whatever number you wish, as long as one has the technical skills and equipment and women fit to carry the cells to term you could end up with that number of pregnancies! However, a "bunch of cells" is just and only that that until it develops into a viable human being. One cannot pull apart arms and legs of a developed fetus, never mind an actual newborn baby, to get more of the same! So a bunch of cells is not a baby by any stretch of imagination!

This video production and the author's paid speech circuit, is really propaganda against birth control and early pregnancy termination, and although pretty, is not really about science! Best to imagine it as some publication from a Fox News Team as part of their opposition to Abortions. It's best then imagined after watching their cameras scan the legs and thighs of their pretty anchor women before switching to the wide angle that takes in the team of discussants once more. Essentially, one needs to think of hypocrisy and memic infection of ideas rather than the fabric of human investigation and science that Alexander Tsiaras wraps himself in at each of his appearances!

For more information, read this. Now I'm not and never have advocated abortions, even early ones. I'm not "Pro-life", just feel that sex education and family example and self respect should lead to responsible sexual behavior within the cultural values of that particular society. If one is going to allow sexual behavior of unmarried couples, then one needs to have birth control taught and made available.

I'm not thinking it's immoral to extinguish the life of a 10 day pile of cells or even a 2 month organized fetus inn some cases. To my way of thinking, pregnancy should be one of the greatest culminations joy and celebration. Pregnancy, when intended, planned and hoped is one of the greatest gifts a family can receive. It still needs to be nourished by emotional, social and health support systems for the couple. Failure of the latter elements leads to a rotting society, crime and misery.

I must admit that, for myself, I'm actually personally abhorrent of abortion as birth control; mainly because it's foolish and insulting to the wonderful gift of life and so traumatic. It's really stupid to deal with birth control as an emergency! Either be celibate or else be responsible and use condoms or whatever else suits you.

Despite my general distaste for abortion as a solution to birth control, I find no value in this video as far as social policy and promoting responsible behavior and birth control.

Back to the video and it's author. This fellows film package is just for for subverting our understanding of human development, introducing the term "baby" to apply to a fertilized ovum. Worse, it's presented in the manner of motivational speakers and gurus like and delivered as other like-minded, speakers bureau stars, like the magical-thinking Deepak Chopra. Such simple formulae to life can't actually solve real problems.

Asher

Wow Asher. What I wouldn't give to have your brain for just one day.

James Newman said:

Wow Asher. What I wouldn't give to have your brain for just one day.

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You should have my heart instead! It's even more enjoyable!

Before I could leave the house this morning, I had to photograph the second wave of rich red blooms of a lilly caught in light from the rising son, throwing shadows on the wall. I kept my son waiting, as I recorded the beauty.

Then arriving at his new home, we saw a lovely woman, about 22 skipping, with her dog, clothes, hair and body moving like free waves in slow motion. Elvis's words, "all Shook Up", flooded my brain. No need for gurus and certainly not MRI machines! The real wonders of life on this planet are all around us.

Asher

Hi, Asher,

Thanks for your thoughtful and thorough essay.

I was once asked at a cocktail party in DC if I were "pro-life".

I said, "Oh, yes, I think life is wonderful, and enjoy practicing 24 hours of it every day."

He of course missed my "needle" entirely, and said, "Then you support [such-and-such legislation prohibiting abortion]?"

I said, "Oh, you were speaking of favoring making abortion illegal? You should have said so."

I hate those silly "slogan" terms, which would be called euphemisms if they were in fact good.

Of course one of the most apt statements was seen on a bumper sticker in East Dallas about 25 years ago: "Against abortion? Don't have one."

I don't favor abortion. I don't favor divorce. I don't favor bankruptcy. I don't favor circuit breakers tripping.

But I don't think any of those should be illegal.

Best regards,

Doug

Like Doug, I too would like to thank you for your knowledgable input.

I know very little about such processes. So cannot add anything valuable.

But I did find it interesting, although now I realize that it might be propaganda containing major inaccuracies.

Best.

Doug Kerr said:

I hate those silly "slogan" terms, which would be called euphemisms if they were in fact good.

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Doug,

The Fox News imaginorium created the term, "Partial Birth Abortion" and a "War on Religion" to give support to the lie that liberals are trying to undermine the moral fiber of the Nation! Actually, as a physician, I felt pretty ignorant and wondered why I had never heard of this abortion procedure. Well they invented it and so that religion spread. Same in deriding Obama's health care proposals as "Obamacare", used as a perforative like slut of communism!

Doug Kerr said:

I don't favor abortion. I don't favor divorce. I don't favor bankruptcy. I don't favor circuit breakers tripping.

But I don't think any of those should be illegal.

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Well, Doug, I don't favor earthquakes, sinkholes or other tragedies like unwanted pregnancies either, but that's the nature of things! One could make all of them illegal too, but so what! Some folks will get into trouble one way or another. Knowing that, I'd just not make a list of ladders and ropes they can't use to get out of the cavern folk fall into.

We just have to do our best. First make sure we know what are cultural values are. Then match that to a fabric of rules with kindness. Everything must be related to the values we have. That's the start and end of i all and has to differ according to our ways of life.

If the "moral right", (who would ban birth control and abortions in any situations) want to show their moral worth, there are far more urgent causes to address: feed the hungry, educate inner city poor, provide for abused, abandoned and trafficked people in the USA and all over. The "Right to Life" starts with those who already breathe!

Asher

fahim mohammed said:

Like Doug, I too would like to thank you for your knowledgable input.

I know very little about such processes. So cannot add anything valuable.

But I did find it interesting, although now I realize that it might be propaganda containing major inaccuracies.

Click to expand...

Hi Fahim,

Don't worry, I've enjoyed watching this (somewhat 'stylized') take on the miracle of human procreation. While it raised a few smiles at the chosen visuals, I still like the generally thought provoking TED talks. The visualisation possibilities have certainly increased a lot. Some are better than others, so that's nothing new.

Cheers,
Bart

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

Hi Fahim,

Don't worry, I've enjoyed watching this (somewhat 'stylized') take on the miracle of human procreation. While it raised a few smiles at the chosen visuals, I still like the generally thought provoking TED talks. The visualisation possibilities have certainly increased a lot. Some are better than others, so that's nothing new.

Cheers,
Bart

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TED = Treat everyone Decently, The Evil Doctor, Technology Education and Design or what?




Asher

Propaganda that achieves art?

Maybe that is a theme to be pursued, although perhaps not by the members directly.

sccott

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

Hi Fahim,

Don't worry, I've enjoyed watching this (somewhat 'stylized') take on the miracle of human procreation. While it raised a few smiles at the chosen visuals, I still like the generally thought provoking TED talks. The visualisation possibilities have certainly increased a lot. Some are better than others, so that's nothing new.

Cheers,
Bart

Click to expand...

Thank you Bart.
Cheers.

A couple of observations.

Asher Kelman said:

Doug,
The Fox News imaginorium created the term, "Partial Birth Abortion" and a "War on Religion" to give support to the lie that liberals are trying to undermine the moral fiber of the Nation! Actually, as a physician, I felt pretty ignorant and wondered why I had never heard of this abortion procedure. Well they invented it and so that religion spread. Same in deriding Obama's health care proposals as "Obamacare", used as a perforative like slut of communism!

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There is such a thing as late-term abortion, is there not? Why rely on semantics? The abortion debate pre-dates Fox News, setting them up as your boogeyman doesn't add any weight to your argument. Trotting out Fox News as a strawman is lazy and ineffective.

There are a great many people in the United States who believe in limited government, to the extent possible. The Affordable Healthcare Act (Obamacare, if you like) represents a progression towards the European social model. Many folks just don't want to go there and they feel slighted by the limited debate and back-room deals that seemed to occur when the thing was voted on. The fact that most of the people who passed it didn't seem to read the Bill is horrifying, at least to my mind. This isn't a left/right thing either, it is about self-determination.

Many Christians feel persecuted for being mocked and disrespected by the political, media, and entertainment industries. Not very inclusive, is it? Forgetting to invite those wacky Christians to the great diversity circle jerk wasn't very nice, I don't blame them for being pissed.

Well, Doug, I don't favor earthquakes, sinkholes or other tragedies like unwanted pregnancies either, but that's the nature of things! One could make all of them illegal too, but so what! Some folks will get into trouble one way or another. Knowing that, I'd just not make a list of ladders and ropes they can't use to get out of the cavern folk fall into.

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You appear to have made an argument in favor of limiting government power and overreach; "get out of my uterus", as it were. Self-determination is a wonderful thing. Feel free to apply that logic to the debate over an individual's right to self-defense.

We just have to do our best. First make sure we know what are cultural values are. Then match that to a fabric of rules with kindness. Everything must be related to the values we have. That's the start and end of i all and has to differ according to our ways of life.

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Cultural values? You can't expect people to share cultural values you big silly! The United States is a beautiful rainbow of cultures and beliefs, the last thing we want is for people to assimilate. Not very culturally-aware of you, Asher.

If the "moral right", (who would ban birth control and abortions in any situations) want to show their moral worth, there are far more urgent causes to address: feed the hungry, educate inner city poor, provide for abused, abandoned and trafficked people in the USA and all over. The "Right to Life" starts with those who already breathe!

Click to expand...

It's the government's job to address hunger, witness the government fining those who attempt to feed the poor. It is the government's job to educate, witness the great strides the Department of Education has made in this arena. As for providing for the abused and trafficked the world over, would you have the United States police the world, Asher? Or, rather, would you have the US continue to police the world and even expand it's power?

Let me reiterate, none of this is a matter of left versus right.

George Holroyd said:

There is such a thing as late-term abortion, is there not? Why rely on semantics? The abortion debate pre-dates Fox News, setting them up as your boogeyman doesn't add any weight to your argument. Trotting out Fox News as a strawman is lazy and ineffective.

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George,

Let me just deal with the Fox News-Bogeyman conundrum and get it out of the way. I happen to like Fox News for it's reporting where CNN, ABC and NBC have narrow political agendas. To get a balance I watch the BBC, Fox News, Al Jazeera and Nippon News. So fox News is part of the perspectives coming from different positions and in that context is contributory to "fair and balanced".

There exploitation of woman is crude and obvious. Although they literally preach "family values" they find any excuse to titillate with slow motion pictures of Victoria's Secret models breasts and thighs. Even cutting to that when an academic woman's advocate was discussing the topic! she protested and they gave a lame excuse. Actually she was on there so they could run their sexy images again!

They select women for their anchors, editorials and hosting with striking figures, dressed in short skirts. At each session the cameras find some artistic excuse, always ignoring the men, to come back into the discussants with a shot sliding up the woman's legs and thighs and then going to a wider shot to take in all the discussants.

Then they want to be at the forefront of advocating for antiabortion philosophies and Christian values!

Actually, they are a business whose market is conservative America that, at times, happens to be culturally duplicitous too.

I have no argument for any community that has consistent and sincere cultural values, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or even atheist. find your identity, teach that to your children and respect others. Fox News, however, is just a pandering business and is hippo critical on family values and politics of the right. They supported Sarah Palin uncritically as if she was part of a savior return whilst denigrating Obama as if he was an impostor, allowing the deniers to have a bully pulpit against him.

I don't mind how whacky religions might appear, (with the exception of not educating women or marrying them off at an early age to aged men and such obvious unfairness). Al these cultures have profound beliefs and also good values to go with them. As long as they leave me and my family a space to twirl in, they can do what they wish. I just need my 100 meters squared!



Asher

As to Obamacare, it was created as a unifying and mocking term, where discussions were no longer needed. They added to that the term, "Death Panel", to suggest a gruesome cutting off of care to hopeless cases.

Actually, the current healthcare system, although perhaps the most advanced in the world, is a mining operation for the countries cash. Drug companies ply their products sometimes at multiples of prices sold in Canada through the same corporations distribution chains. An excess of expensive diagnostic machines are run by many local competing private and hospital systems, often, for just 7-8 hours a day so that patients are gouged with ridiculously high charges. Paradoxically, prices in medicine are generally outside free market pressure.

For HMO plans, however, an MRI test normally at $2,000 could be $250, as that sector of the market is competitive to some degree. In the hospital, patients with good insurance stand the common risk of financial gang rape as hoards of consultants are referred for opinions when, in many cases, one principal specialist and an occasional intervention by another specialist would be perfect. There's rampant overbilling and patients been seen by specialists many times after they have contributed all they have to offer. The patients are essentially milked often in in a 5-15 minutes lightening visit as the specialist goes through a list of 5 to thirty patients he "consults on" in several hospitals each night. There are many false billings that are routine and go unchallenged.

To contain costs, patients are booted out, hours after complex surgeries, and humanity suffers. Patients are now called "customers" to remove the element of responsibility and devotion to life we should have towards the sick. I remember having surgery and being shepherded in to my wife's car shortly thereafter and having to puke in the gutter several times on the way home.

There's great racial disparity between healthcare of Americans. The system is driven more by marketing and billing strategies than the goal of delivering excellent care regardless of the patient's origin or status in society.

So that's where the health plans of Hilary Clinton, George Romney and President Obama come in. It's an attempt to extend the caring and for that I'm grateful. Yes, the debate was insufficient. That I concede, but the opposition was memic and reflex, ignoring the core issues of greed and cold blooded lack of compassion.

Asher

George Holroyd said:

Many Christians feel persecuted for being mocked and disrespected by the political, media, and entertainment industries. Not very inclusive, is it? Forgetting to invite those wacky Christians to the great diversity circle jerk wasn't very nice, I don't blame them for being pissed.

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George,

In the USA, churches flourish. In a diverse society, of course folk might find others beliefs whacky. So what. Just do what you do in your sector. Leave everyone else alone!

George Holroyd said:

You appear to have made an argument in favor of limiting government power and overreach; "get out of my uterus", as it were.

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Actually, George, no! I just don't want to skirt logic and hearing arguments for superficial campaign slogans.

George Holroyd said:

Self-determination is a wonderful thing. Feel free to apply that logic to the debate over an individual's right to self-defense.

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Where's individual self-defense being threatened? No one is taking away guns, LOL! The truth is that having an automatic weapon does not protect the rights enshrined in the US constitution. What's protects those rights is the lazy public waking up and protesting or stopping the erosion of rights by "emergency" laws to deal with "terrorism". These have stripped away freedom from unreasonable search, right to a trial and the like. The government can intercept all emails, your computer at the airport and every text message. As a comedian recently quipped, having an automatic to protect, "Freedoms" is like having 20 bouncers at a strip joint when there are no strippers within! The fact is that Freedom is mostly threatened in the USA by the invasiveness of the government, complacency and ignorance of the public, not the paucity of personal weapons.

I myself have no issue with everyone having guns! Just not the whacky folk or kids. Some screening and the guns can flow. Just require regular training in safety and proper use and health checks.

Asher

So why all this diversion away from the O.P. topic, "Something Interesting"? It's because the work of art linked to is impressive for sure, but really just propaganda! No one questions folks rights to beliefs. However, campaigns as "artistic wonders" should be exposed for what they are. Firstly they are devised to attract people across all political and social strata by virtue of beauty, wonder and technical mastery to seduce the audience to it's voice. Then it uses terminology which is plain false. What they want to infuse into people's brain is a new meaning for the word "baby". A baby breathes. Cells are just that. Major falsity to say otherwise.

All this from a guy who has no taste for termination of life! I have always been against abortions in most cases. But the right to life must be first to the people who breathe.

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Their exploitation of woman is crude and obvious. Although they literally preach "family values" they find any excuse to titillate with slow motion pictures of Victoria's Secret models breasts and thighs. Even cutting to that when an academic woman's advocate was discussing the topic! she protested and they gave a lame excuse. Actually she was on there so they could run their sexy images again!

They select women for their anchors, editorials and hosting with striking figures, dressed in short skirts. At each session the cameras find some artistic excuse, always ignoring the men, to come back into the discussants with a shot sliding up the woman's legs and thighs and then going to a wider shot to take in all the discussants.

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Pardon my ignorance, but I don't watch US TV (or much TV altogether actually). I understand from your description that they film strikingly sexy women so as to titillate their audience. As a man I can understand the appeal of that, but do they also film some men in the same manner? As far as I know, the majority of their audience are women.

Jerome Marot said:

Pardon my ignorance, but I don't watch US TV (or much TV altogether actually). I understand from your description that they film strikingly sexy women so as to titillate their audience. As a man I can understand the appeal of that, but do they also film some men in the same manner? As far as I know, the majority of their audience are women.

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Well Fox News is distinct in this respect, "Fox News viewers are older, male, upper- or upper-middle class and Republican, and describe themselves as conservative." This NYTimes Snapshot of Fox News Viewers is worth reading.

Asher

If the viewers are predominantly male (and presumably heterosexual), that would indeed explain why the titillating women. Thank you.

Where's individual self-defense being threatened? No one is taking away guns, LOL!

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Where did I write that individual self-defense was being threatened and for that matter, in which comment did I declare that anyone was going to take guns away? The way I read your comment about not limiting one's options rang true for the argument against gun control. Why should the government limit an individual's means of self-defense?

I'm no more in favor of outlawing abortion than I am in outlawing guns.

As a comedian recently quipped, having an automatic to protect, "Freedoms" is like having 20 bouncers at a strip joint when there are no strippers within! The fact is that Freedom is mostly threatened in the USA by the invasiveness of the government, complacency and ignorance of the public, not the paucity of personal weapons.

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That would be the same invasive government you would ask to manage the nation's healthcare? You can't have it both ways, Asher.

Asher Kelman said:

Well Fox News is distinct in this respect, "Fox News viewers are older, male, upper- or upper-middle class and Republican, and describe themselves as conservative." This NYTimes Snapshot of Fox News Viewers is worth reading.

Asher

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What on earth does Fox News have to with the original post? Did they commission the video or something? Personally, I can't stand Fox but that doesn't change the fact that adding them to this conversation is pointless.

George Holroyd said:

What on earth does Fox News have to with the original post? Did they commission the video or something? Personally, I can't stand Fox but that doesn't change the fact that adding them to this conversation is pointless.

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Same tactics and insincerity, that's all! I admire as much as I question folks with strong beliefs. I respect Jim Galli for his sincerity and being true to his beliefs, however whacky to me, (like the imminence of the "coming of the apocalypse" and the last chances to be saved beforehand), as he's no hypocrite and he allows me my own 100 meters square of space to swing my ideas in. I merely used Fox News as an easily understandable example of the sort of moral dishonesty the video is invested with. Just a shortcut to understanding how truth and beauty is manipulated.

Asher