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In Perspective, Planet: Misrepresentation in a world press winning photo.
- Thread starter fahim mohammed
- Start date
George Holroyd
New member
Magnum, who?
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thanks, Fahim, for bringing this to us.
Frankly, my first reaction, before I clicked through, for that the award-winning picture, was the one showing an anguished Gaza funeral procession for a child with light added later, on the faces as if painted by Michelangelo on the roof of the Sistene Chapel!
The tragedy of the facts, "innocents killed by a horrible conflict", was transformed into "heaven's intervention" to raise the emotional and spiritual level, to make the children "saintly" and crowd witnesses to something like the crucifixion of Christ! Well, the picture still won the prize. No picture of the Syrian disaster, of innocents, Sunnis being slaughtered by intent and by the thousands can compete with the popular once again selected image of and from the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The facts were honest in the original picture, but the post-processing was artistic story telling and propaganda designed to fit the wishes of the prize givers. If, however, the resulting image was to be used in a memorial to the slain, then it would be more than apt, but as news, it's really inappropriate, wrong, manipulative and therefore a lie. Motivation does not allow news reporters to change the facts in a picture. For "art" or commemoration or propaganda, that's entirely up to the imagination and wishes of the artist and backers!
The totally fabricated story in the picture you actually referred to, was far worse than the doctored picture of the slain children. It never happened! It was the artful yes, but grossly deceitful work of news photographers who feel they are above reproach. They and their editors are a disgrace to photojournalism.
In both cases, the prizes should be withdrawn. No one doubts the destructive forces at play in the Rochester drug scene or the tragedy of the conflicts of war. It's the press's job, however, to be scrupulously honest or else we'll never trust them.
Asher
P.S. I remember seeing a picture in a London newspaper of a massacre of black Africans in the streets of Salisbury, (modern Harare, Zimbabwe). The caption declared to the effect that that the white racist police didn't even bother to have the corpses removed. Actually these were workers sleeping off lunch before returning to work on a job site and the grassy central island was a good place to take a nap!
Bob Rogers
New member
Also interesting that the man on the left seems to be illuminated by the wall to his left, despite the shadows on the building telling us where the sun is.
That Rochester story is something. Makes you wonder what was going through the photographer's head. The very brief time I worked at a newspaper the rule was three or fewer people get their names, and if you pose a subject, make note of it in the caption. They provided an example of a posed photo that they had run. It was a ribbon cutting ceremony and the photographer got there after the ribbon was cut. He had the people re-create the scene by holding the bits of ribbon together, all explained as such.
That Rochester story is something. Makes you wonder what was going through the photographer's head. The very brief time I worked at a newspaper the rule was three or fewer people get their names, and if you pose a subject, make note of it in the caption. They provided an example of a posed photo that they had run. It was a ribbon cutting ceremony and the photographer got there after the ribbon was cut. He had the people re-create the scene by holding the bits of ribbon together, all explained as such.
Doug Kerr
Well-known member
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
........... And now a word from Photographer Ken Jarecke on the Rochester Drug Images
The prizewinning photograph: not a sniper, not anything to do with the district with drugs, just posed to create the story in the news photographer's head! A photograph of a news event should be as taken, just color corrected. The documentary is know to be lit by the photographer, but any staging and posing for a story that one is creating needs to be fully disclosed. It has to document fact not export imagined concepts to a creative lie.
"Keller was the subject of a photo which was part of a series entitled “The Crescent” by Magnum photographer Paolo Pellegrin. The series was recently awarded second prize in the Stories category of the 2013 World Press Photo contest and a second place award in the Issue Reporting Picture Story category of the 2013 Picture of the Year International competition, with the individual photo earning Photographer of the Year — First Place in the Freelance/Agency category of the Picture of the Year awards – one of 50 images submitted for that category." Bagnews
(My red Courier, in the quotation, below!"
"Caption mistakes are one thing. Anyone can make that kind of mistake. Personally, I’m not a big fan of captions. I want viewers to see the photograph and then go to the caption to enhance and add to their understanding of the image. This controversy is no longer about poor, misleading or “lifted” captions. This is now about a self-proclaimed “documentary” photographer who manipulates people and uses them as props to illustrate a story narrative he’s made up in his head.
This is the 21st century and as journalists we’ve had these conversations countless times. Walker Evans shouldn’t have moved the furniture. Gene Smith shouldn’t have sandwiched negatives. The guy who’s name I don’t remember shouldn’t have removed the Coke can. Were we not clear on this? I thought we’d moved on to questions that are harder to answer, like how much can we tweak our color palette?
Photographs aren’t a clear representation of reality. A skilled photographer willing to shamelessly manipulate a person can make them appear to be whatever they want. That’s why it’s important to have an ethical code of standards. Not just for the industry as a whole, but as an individual also."
See more at http://kennethjarecke.typepad.com/mostly_true/2013/02/just-make-it-happen.html
Asher
The prizewinning photograph: not a sniper, not anything to do with the district with drugs, just posed to create the story in the news photographer's head! A photograph of a news event should be as taken, just color corrected. The documentary is know to be lit by the photographer, but any staging and posing for a story that one is creating needs to be fully disclosed. It has to document fact not export imagined concepts to a creative lie.
"Keller was the subject of a photo which was part of a series entitled “The Crescent” by Magnum photographer Paolo Pellegrin. The series was recently awarded second prize in the Stories category of the 2013 World Press Photo contest and a second place award in the Issue Reporting Picture Story category of the 2013 Picture of the Year International competition, with the individual photo earning Photographer of the Year — First Place in the Freelance/Agency category of the Picture of the Year awards – one of 50 images submitted for that category." Bagnews
(My red Courier, in the quotation, below!"
"Caption mistakes are one thing. Anyone can make that kind of mistake. Personally, I’m not a big fan of captions. I want viewers to see the photograph and then go to the caption to enhance and add to their understanding of the image. This controversy is no longer about poor, misleading or “lifted” captions. This is now about a self-proclaimed “documentary” photographer who manipulates people and uses them as props to illustrate a story narrative he’s made up in his head.
I thought these issues had been worked out by now. You don’t use people for props.
You don’t manipulate them into doing things they aren’t doing and you don’t ask
them to pose for you and then pretend it’s a situation that you’ve happened upon.
You don’t manipulate them into doing things they aren’t doing and you don’t ask
them to pose for you and then pretend it’s a situation that you’ve happened upon.
This is the 21st century and as journalists we’ve had these conversations countless times. Walker Evans shouldn’t have moved the furniture. Gene Smith shouldn’t have sandwiched negatives. The guy who’s name I don’t remember shouldn’t have removed the Coke can. Were we not clear on this? I thought we’d moved on to questions that are harder to answer, like how much can we tweak our color palette?
Photographs aren’t a clear representation of reality. A skilled photographer willing to shamelessly manipulate a person can make them appear to be whatever they want. That’s why it’s important to have an ethical code of standards. Not just for the industry as a whole, but as an individual also."
See more at http://kennethjarecke.typepad.com/mostly_true/2013/02/just-make-it-happen.html
Asher
Tom dinning
Registrant*
All sounds a bit pious to me. What do they say about politician? How do you know if they are lying? Their lips are moving. Maybe it's the same with journo's. only in this case they are taking photos. Seems like there's a lot of stone throwing here with words to match. I am taken back to Monty Python here and see a few photographers in disguise with bags of stones in their hands and something resembling a camera tucked under their thawb.
On the one hand we know what is capable in photography, we know a little about human nature, we believe ourselves to be astute yet we are shocked when we are caught out or misled. All of a sudden we claim foul play and rattle around in indignation demanding something to be done and standards to be raised.
We know that the photograph isn't a real image of the world. Well, neither is our view point.
Prepare to be shocked and horrified by the deceit of you fellow man and woman. They are not all like you and I.
On the one hand we know what is capable in photography, we know a little about human nature, we believe ourselves to be astute yet we are shocked when we are caught out or misled. All of a sudden we claim foul play and rattle around in indignation demanding something to be done and standards to be raised.
We know that the photograph isn't a real image of the world. Well, neither is our view point.
Prepare to be shocked and horrified by the deceit of you fellow man and woman. They are not all like you and I.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I'd like to point out that we have a number of classes of photography that folk mistake for photojournalism. There are three broad divisions to consider:
The problem with todays, so-called, photojournalist competitions is that they have become so privileged and arrogant, that they reward prizes to conceptual art as if it represents "worthy reporting of news" on our planet. This is a huge disservice to their own standing and to our trust of "news" in general!
Asher
- Photojournalists takes pictures that truly represent what happened without purposeful distortion or artistic editing beyond minor global color correction or brightness and contrast. None of these changes can alter the essence of the viewers experience to manipulate the viewers take on the subject, for or against any motivations. The photographer, should, (when there are few folk in the picture), confirm each of their identities wherever possible. Certainly, people shown to be deceased, should not be seen in a subsequent "war" photograph, by the same lucky photographer, helping rescue new "victims" buried under rubble in another village. Not hard to understand!
- Documentary photographers may light the subject but can't pose one person, as if they are another or suggesting they do something which does not naturally occur by that person and in that place and under those circumstances. Also, extra props in amongst war debris, like children's dolls or a toddlers shoes, extra flames or rocket trails are fabrications and not allowed.
- Conceptual artists, like poets, have ideas in their heads which they export to something we can all experience. It can be true, far-fetched, physically impossible or a lie. There's no requirement, except by common decency of a civilized person, to take into account any "truth" or facts, as the art product is just a figment of the imagination.
The problem with todays, so-called, photojournalist competitions is that they have become so privileged and arrogant, that they reward prizes to conceptual art as if it represents "worthy reporting of news" on our planet. This is a huge disservice to their own standing and to our trust of "news" in general!
Asher
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Piety? No common sense so we can say, noli illegitimi ad carborundum
Tom,
Good observations but perhaps rather too cynical a filter. We have a right to be pious when it comes to protecting our most valuable treasures and resources. That means
I'm sure you can add more!
When we ask for ethics in all these areas, it's not some fundamentalist bible-thumping cry for morality, but a requirement for those in whose hands we place our treasured resources, "Do not break that trust!"
Well here I can agree that man has brilliantly developed the greatest skill in deception. Unlike wild creatures with highly adapted, but fixed camouflage, we are able to be really creative and dance any dance we choose to practice well. For example, to live a lavish lifestyle one could pose as vegetarian teetotaler New Testament minister and be extracting millions from the flock to support a life of jets, filet mignon and full-bloodied debauchery! ......and if one gave political donations, would be invited to the governors ball to boot!
As the great latin sages say, "noli illegitimi carborundum" or "nil illegitimi ad carborundum"
We just can't left the buggers grind us down! Call it piety, even self delusional, but to me, it's just simple common sense! I believe most folk are kind, considerate and honest, but I can't stand being screwed by folk patting each other on the back for how smart they are when they break our trust.
There's a saying I heard, "Trust in God, but tie up your camel!"
Asher
Tom,
Good observations but perhaps rather too cynical a filter. We have a right to be pious when it comes to protecting our most valuable treasures and resources. That means
- coaches, priests and scoutmasters can't abuse our children in their trust,
- doctors can't create operations or treatments based on maximizing earnings
- water and air cannot be polluted without respect for folk downstream
- women can't be trafficked as sex slaves or cheap workers to rich countries
- we have clean hands
- honest news reporting is a condition needed for democracy and free choice to work
I'm sure you can add more!
When we ask for ethics in all these areas, it's not some fundamentalist bible-thumping cry for morality, but a requirement for those in whose hands we place our treasured resources, "Do not break that trust!"
Well here I can agree that man has brilliantly developed the greatest skill in deception. Unlike wild creatures with highly adapted, but fixed camouflage, we are able to be really creative and dance any dance we choose to practice well. For example, to live a lavish lifestyle one could pose as vegetarian teetotaler New Testament minister and be extracting millions from the flock to support a life of jets, filet mignon and full-bloodied debauchery! ......and if one gave political donations, would be invited to the governors ball to boot!
As the great latin sages say, "noli illegitimi carborundum" or "nil illegitimi ad carborundum"
We just can't left the buggers grind us down! Call it piety, even self delusional, but to me, it's just simple common sense! I believe most folk are kind, considerate and honest, but I can't stand being screwed by folk patting each other on the back for how smart they are when they break our trust.
There's a saying I heard, "Trust in God, but tie up your camel!"
Asher
Tom dinning
Registrant*
You are right, Asher my friend; cynical is what I am.
I would like to add to the list from Christine's Book of Ethics:
Don't make a mess when you cook.
Never be late.
Never disagree with Christine.
Included in the same book are such things as:
Screw the bastards for every cent they have.
Never pay full price
Don't love your neighbour if they have noisy kids or dogs.
I'm not in any way suggesting these things are good or bad. My ethics probably don't vary much fro yours or the next bloke really. But as with people i deal with I take the premise that they might try to scew me just a bit for their own glory. I still deal with them but with caution.
I vote, for example but don't trust pollies all that much. I buy cars from time to time but I know the salesman is pushing his luck when he tells me its the best deal in town. I know there are factories out there where **** is being pumped upstream but I also know my neighbour pours his greasy leftovers into the sink and flushes it into the system. So do I from time to time.
You see, I suspect its happening. There is evidence to support that suspicion. I don't know who is doing it so i am sceptical of everyone. I look at a photo in the paper and know enough to be confident in saying: that may not be as it appears.
It would be delightful if we didn't have to have this conversation and all is as you would like it. We can strive but know that such a state is unlikely and certainly not the case at the moment.
So, I continue to be sceptical, cynical and cautious.
Here's the dilemma I face. If someone asks me if I think a photo is thruthful in its representation I can answer in one of two ways: "probably" or "probably not". One answer is that of a sceptic and the other is that of a non-sceptic. Are they not the same answer?
I would like to add to the list from Christine's Book of Ethics:
Don't make a mess when you cook.
Never be late.
Never disagree with Christine.
Included in the same book are such things as:
Screw the bastards for every cent they have.
Never pay full price
Don't love your neighbour if they have noisy kids or dogs.
I'm not in any way suggesting these things are good or bad. My ethics probably don't vary much fro yours or the next bloke really. But as with people i deal with I take the premise that they might try to scew me just a bit for their own glory. I still deal with them but with caution.
I vote, for example but don't trust pollies all that much. I buy cars from time to time but I know the salesman is pushing his luck when he tells me its the best deal in town. I know there are factories out there where **** is being pumped upstream but I also know my neighbour pours his greasy leftovers into the sink and flushes it into the system. So do I from time to time.
You see, I suspect its happening. There is evidence to support that suspicion. I don't know who is doing it so i am sceptical of everyone. I look at a photo in the paper and know enough to be confident in saying: that may not be as it appears.
It would be delightful if we didn't have to have this conversation and all is as you would like it. We can strive but know that such a state is unlikely and certainly not the case at the moment.
So, I continue to be sceptical, cynical and cautious.
Here's the dilemma I face. If someone asks me if I think a photo is thruthful in its representation I can answer in one of two ways: "probably" or "probably not". One answer is that of a sceptic and the other is that of a non-sceptic. Are they not the same answer?
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I'll not be cooking when I arrive, so there's no problem there. My wife will be busy tidying up dead leaves on your house plants but won't demand silk or even high there count Egyptian cotton sheets. We won't burn the furniture for our midnight Dervish dance.
Asher
Tom dinning
Registrant*
What is it with women and dead leaves?
If a large asteroid was about to create another Ice Age tomorrow Christine would have me picking up the dead leaves today.
I should show that journo's photo to her when she gets home. I know what her response will be.
"There's muck on the kitchen cupboard handles", at which time I will set up the electron microscope to find molecules of debrie that escaped my nuking of the kitchen after lunch.
And she does this with only one good eye.
You guys have your discrepencies in the truth alleged in a few photos. Ha!
You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!
Turn up here and you'll soon be informed.
fahim mohammed
Well-known member
Let me quote Asher:
" There's a saying I heard, "Trust in God, but tie up your camel!" End of quote.
A cynic, not trusting his eyes, would keep worrying, and keep looking back wondering if the date palm
he/she had tied the camel to was not in reality a mirage in the desert!!
I believe that people are basically good and trustworthy. I expect them to uphold that trust.
Have been burnt a few times. But that is a part of the experience.
I would not have it any other way.
" There's a saying I heard, "Trust in God, but tie up your camel!" End of quote.
A cynic, not trusting his eyes, would keep worrying, and keep looking back wondering if the date palm
he/she had tied the camel to was not in reality a mirage in the desert!!
I believe that people are basically good and trustworthy. I expect them to uphold that trust.
Have been burnt a few times. But that is a part of the experience.
I would not have it any other way.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Zealots against blasphemy of Allah, trusting humanity, rise up to defend free speech
Let me share with you how amazingly practical and beautiful trust can be.
Keld Navntoft/Scanpix: Lars Hedegaard, center, the target of a shooting,
spoke last week at the Danish Parliament. Published: February 27, 2013
The picture is accurate in that it represents what the camera saw that day, but cameras do not recognize evil. We'd need a creative prize-winning manipulative photographer to unmask this smart, elegant looking gentleman for the primitive hateful, xenophobic anti-muslim propagandist he really is. It doesn't show with any good lens or any type of film or digital sensor.
Read more here how Danish Muslims, the very targets of his venom stood up to defend his right to speak his mind. Yes that's right! The argued that however foolish, inflammatory, misguided and dangerous his hate speech is, it must be allowed without resorting to violence to shut him up. For in silencing the bad, one also ends up silencing the fresh words we need. That's the essence of this post. From here on it's my tiresome polemics again!
Comment: Now some words needed for completion. To me, this spontaneous and surprising outburst, (by previously considered fiery Danish Muslims), shows we have real prospects for dialog. These new voices are the precious raindrops for our civilizations to survive the droughts and scourges of the present. We need many new voices to address enemies we keep creating by national, ethnic, religious and economic fervor. That's why freedom of speech is so important. Yes it's hard for nationalists or autocratic rulers to hear dissent, but it's necessary in spite of the passion it can arouse . Insulating ourselves from ideas is futile. We are not living in so separate zones as some might wish or imagine. Instead, we're all are part of the singe body of man on this one tiny planet. There's just a thin margin of life and we're responsible for saving it for future generations. It's not acceptable just be speaking to those who like us! We hear out our friends. It's time and far more important to hear out, converse with and engage our enemies!
The Danish Muslims must have trust that humanity can ultimately overcome evil. I don't know of a better hand to play with! "Those people"!!!
Show me that Danish picture corrected and it will be worth a prize!
Asher
Let me share with you how amazingly practical and beautiful trust can be.
Keld Navntoft/Scanpix: Lars Hedegaard, center, the target of a shooting,
spoke last week at the Danish Parliament. Published: February 27, 2013
The picture is accurate in that it represents what the camera saw that day, but cameras do not recognize evil. We'd need a creative prize-winning manipulative photographer to unmask this smart, elegant looking gentleman for the primitive hateful, xenophobic anti-muslim propagandist he really is. It doesn't show with any good lens or any type of film or digital sensor.
Read more here how Danish Muslims, the very targets of his venom stood up to defend his right to speak his mind. Yes that's right! The argued that however foolish, inflammatory, misguided and dangerous his hate speech is, it must be allowed without resorting to violence to shut him up. For in silencing the bad, one also ends up silencing the fresh words we need. That's the essence of this post. From here on it's my tiresome polemics again!
Comment: Now some words needed for completion. To me, this spontaneous and surprising outburst, (by previously considered fiery Danish Muslims), shows we have real prospects for dialog. These new voices are the precious raindrops for our civilizations to survive the droughts and scourges of the present. We need many new voices to address enemies we keep creating by national, ethnic, religious and economic fervor. That's why freedom of speech is so important. Yes it's hard for nationalists or autocratic rulers to hear dissent, but it's necessary in spite of the passion it can arouse . Insulating ourselves from ideas is futile. We are not living in so separate zones as some might wish or imagine. Instead, we're all are part of the singe body of man on this one tiny planet. There's just a thin margin of life and we're responsible for saving it for future generations. It's not acceptable just be speaking to those who like us! We hear out our friends. It's time and far more important to hear out, converse with and engage our enemies!
The Danish Muslims must have trust that humanity can ultimately overcome evil. I don't know of a better hand to play with! "Those people"!!!
Show me that Danish picture corrected and it will be worth a prize!
Asher
Tom dinning
Registrant*
Is that a long bow you draw there, Asher? Or am I just a bit sick of hearing about free speech, extremists and Muslims? Or any other religious group for that matter, just in case I am accused of being biased.
And what's with the camels, Fahim? I'm lost.
It's a good thing there are people out there who think nice things about others, otherwise nothing would get done. Or would it? I got this far with a broken wheel. I figure I'll make it the rest of the way without too much trouble.
And if someone's god does greet me at the other end I want to see their credentials first, followed by a water tight buy-back scheme if I decide not to stay.
And what's with the camels, Fahim? I'm lost.
It's a good thing there are people out there who think nice things about others, otherwise nothing would get done. Or would it? I got this far with a broken wheel. I figure I'll make it the rest of the way without too much trouble.
And if someone's god does greet me at the other end I want to see their credentials first, followed by a water tight buy-back scheme if I decide not to stay.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Tom,
Anyone can believe in their own man in the sky as long as they don't bother me. Christians have campaigned for souls for 2 millennia, Muslims for almost as long! In the times when even entire continents were unknown, it didn't matter much because they couldn't destroy everything. Now we can! BTW, this week, tuna and other fish caught in California have traces of Cesium 137 from Fukushema, 6,702 miles, (10,783 Kilometers) away!
And we like life. I love my grankids and the joy I see in other people's faces for such small things that go right. I don't want us to to really screw up this place and have my offspring fighting anyone else's.
Meanwhile, I'll do things I enjoy, try to sprinkle breadcrumbs on the waters and if a lot of folk do that, we might all make it!
Asher
Anyone can believe in their own man in the sky as long as they don't bother me. Christians have campaigned for souls for 2 millennia, Muslims for almost as long! In the times when even entire continents were unknown, it didn't matter much because they couldn't destroy everything. Now we can! BTW, this week, tuna and other fish caught in California have traces of Cesium 137 from Fukushema, 6,702 miles, (10,783 Kilometers) away!
And we like life. I love my grankids and the joy I see in other people's faces for such small things that go right. I don't want us to to really screw up this place and have my offspring fighting anyone else's.
Meanwhile, I'll do things I enjoy, try to sprinkle breadcrumbs on the waters and if a lot of folk do that, we might all make it!
Asher
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
They say if you have to enquire about the price then you can't afford it. Same with heaven. If you get there, you don't ask for credentials, either you believe and your there or you do not and you'd never be there to ask questions in the first place, LOL!
When I get there, I'll make arrangements to have you transferred up from Hades and have the flames put out and then use my influence to get you your return ticket - Just in case, you ever get fed up with soft fleecy clouds and endless freshly-minted energetic virgins. I'm even going to get my kegs of Fosters and a barbecue with an endless supply of Hebrew National kosher hot dogs! Oh yes, then I must have Grey Poupon Dijon mustard too!
Asher
Tom dinning
Registrant*
Now you've got me thinking.
If I could guarantee the following I might consider turning religious.
A continuous left break over a reef.
Fish and chips and a bottle of chilled Chard.
Long balmy evenings with christine.
A never ending supply of dark chocolate.
My iPod fully loaded.
A pencil and paper.
Someone to argue with.
A shed.
If I could guarantee the following I might consider turning religious.
A continuous left break over a reef.
Fish and chips and a bottle of chilled Chard.
Long balmy evenings with christine.
A never ending supply of dark chocolate.
My iPod fully loaded.
A pencil and paper.
Someone to argue with.
A shed.
Charlotte Thompson
Well-known member
The photograph itself brings about excellent discussion__ For without so called "wrong" how can we explore so called "right" When I saw the said photo I knew immediately it was contrived perhaps because I deal in digital art and transparency overlay which to me is a sort of shadow dance__
A play on top of a play if you will_
and as far as Heaven goes give me days and nights with Denzel Washington
champagne _ and a great hammock_ my late Arabian horse Alia Bint Saheb _ Dreams upon Dreams
Charlotte
A play on top of a play if you will_
and as far as Heaven goes give me days and nights with Denzel Washington
champagne _ and a great hammock_ my late Arabian horse Alia Bint Saheb _ Dreams upon Dreams
Charlotte