CaptureOne 4.5 pro is out!

and you may download it (even a 30 days free trial)

here

Both for Mac and PCs

So far, phenomenal disappointment. There are so many obstacles in the way that it is hard to begin to consider the image quality of the conversions.

Ralph Eisenberg said:

So far, phenomenal disappointment. There are so many obstacles in the way that it is hard to begin to consider the image quality of the conversions.

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Hi Ralph,

I have just downloaded it. Can you point me in the direction of those disappointments please? I am not an existing user of C1 so I would not know where to look at.

Cheers,

For those who give it a try, please check to see if you can save 'most' of your settings. I finally gave up on 4.1 since many of the settings could not be saved, so that every time you started work on a new set of files, most of the settings had to be recreated. Looking over the manual that comes with 4.5, it seems that you can create 100 personal 'recipes', which might do the trick. I've downloaded it all, but don't want to go through the hassle of installing it if this major problem has not been resolved, particularly when Lightroom does such a good job these days.

Perhaps I'm being cynical (I call it learning from experience), but I'm not optimistic even if I have a couple of C1 Pro upgrades left on my license.

Mike

Cem_Usakligil said:

Hi Ralph,

I have just downloaded it. Can you point me in the direction of those disappointments please? I am not an existing user of C1 so I would not know where to look at.

Cheers,

Click to expand...

I've been using it since C1 (now CO) became available on the Mac, so my mindset and expectations are somewhat different from yours for that reason alone. While I'm quite sure (if i extrapolate from 4.1) that their conversion quality should be at a very high level, I feel that they've just thrown quite a few monkey wrenches into the smoothness of their workflow, they have removed features that I found extremely useful, they deteriorated key features of their UI, and the list goes on...

I've licensed C1 Pro since 2005 when I was searching for a home platform. I really could never get into the groove with C1 Pro 3.x. It just seemed unnecessarily cluttered and technical, an interface and work environment model from a very different culture. So I've long since abandoned it and have lived in Adobe's Lightroom for nearly two years.

With the release of C1 Pro 4 I've revisited the product. (Why not, since I have a free upgrade.) While it no longer looks like I'm performing some sort of gas chromatograph experiment it still feels awful to me. Granted, this model would have seemed groovy in, say, 2005. But the world has made great leaps forward and it now seems awkwardly old and unnaturally segmented. It's also still is a terrible litterbug, leaving cache file folders everywhere.

So with that general impression, and having experimented with files from my M8, 1Ds III, 5D, and Rebel XSi I observe no advantage whatsoever with C1 Pro (over Lightroom/ACR). It still features a PGR (Pain / Gain Ratio) far above 1.0 for me. So I again bid Capture One a fond farewell.

Got Capture1 4.5 PRO (DB)

I just downloaded the very long promised Capture One from Phase One to use with my P25..

There used to be tree versions of C1, the PRO, light and DB. The last one works only with digital back files, but is always provided free of charge. Now there is one download -one for MacOS, other for PC, etc-- and the program installs accordingly to what you have in your system. In my case DB. The files from my Nikon D300 are read by the program as if I had the PRO, but I can't click the "process" button...

It looks almost the same as the last version that I had of C1, but this one comes with SESSIONS, something that I missed before.

I will talk about the things I see are new in no particular order, for example: there is a new category of controls from the main list that now reads:

*LIBRARY (Sessinos folders/Sessions Albums -with "For My Web"- Sessions Favorites and Folders-

*CAPTURE (this one was missing in earlier non PRO versions) ICC profiles Capture Naming Camera -when attached...

*QUICK (Styles/Base Characteristics like ICC Profile, Curves/White Balance -Kelvin, Ting- /Exposure,Contrast, Bringhtnes, Saturation/ HDR Hight Dinamic Range and Process Summary...

*COLOR (White Balance Color Balance -Hue-Sat.- SKIN TONE and COLOR EDITOR -- This used to be a stand alone program and I see that they decided to embed it here...

*EXPOSURE (Exposure/Contrast/Brightness/Saturation HDR --again-- LEVELS - CURVES all is here in one big panel

* LENS ( This is the NEW panel and has Lens/Focal Length-Aperture-Chromatic Aberration /Color Cast/Purple Fringing / Distortion/ Sharpness falloff / Light Falloff/ Vignetting

* CROP ( Ratio-Size.. I think this is new: ROTATION with angle of rotation... AND: Overlay.
There is a "DROP IAGE" place and panel for: OPACITY/ SCALE/ HORIZONTAL/VERTICAL ... INTERESTING...

*DETAILS (is the panel for navigating and checking focus. This is not my favorite change, but it is fast on my computer... there is also: SHARPENING/NOISE REDUCTION/CLARITY/MOIRE

* METADATA ( This is wher all the EXIF data is shown BASIC/EXIF CAMERA/EXIF EXPOSURE/ --I can see here that the image I made with my 150mm is shown as captured with a 512mm ... don't believe all you see !

* ADJUSTMENTS (Is this a new panel? it is called "ADJUSTMENTS CLIPBOARD" and seams to be a place to check things from Exposure to lens correction... something to explore in the future...

* PROCESS RECIPES (FORMAT / 16 BIT-8 BITS / Compression / ICC Profile -again- /Resolution /Scale /sharpening -you can check here to disable it-- / Open with... PS CS3, for example / OUTPUT NAMING / PROCESS SUMMARY

* BATCH ( this is the last of the panels and it has a comprehensive historic survey of processed images -- for what I can see -- this I don't remember ever having seen in C1 before...

COLOR EDITOR

PROCESS HISTORIC SURVEY




ADJUSTMENT CLIPBOARD

Nicolas Claris said:

An interesting feed back just written by Leonardo can be read here

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Hi Nicolas,

I think that these two threads belong together here in this forum, so I have merged them.

Cheers,

Cem_Usakligil said:

Hi Nicolas,

I think that these two threads belong together here in this forum, so I have merged them.

Cheers,

Click to expand...

Yes you're fully right, wanted to do so and been called for something else! you got faster!-)

PS I moved it back to "Image Processing and Workflow" as Capture One is not only for MF but for processing most of DSLRs too…

I also have been ennoyed and not comfortable with the new GUI, as I have been the 1st time I discovered C1 pro, then I loved it…

I won't comment on the IQ, it is really to new and I don't have enough experience with it, but I think there are many new features and can't see what I could do before that I couldn't with this new version...

Before making definitive decision wether it is a good SW or not, I think we should try to move our own brains and try to understand how it works.

Would our brains being so lazy? let's give CO a chance, we may -or not- discover a good tool.
Honestly a few hours trials are not enough (would it be, I would have never bought C1)

Nicolas

I'm running the 4.1 (not pro) here. Is there - IQ-wise, aka render- and colorengine - a difference to the 4.5 Pro?

IQ is one of the big keyfactors for a converter in my book.


As for the GUI: personally I don't mind the 4 - 4.1 versions ; recalling some 4 years ago, I didn't liked it - vers 2.7(??) at all.

For some reason they have changed their approach to Sessions, which were introduced in v1.x as a foundational feature of the workflow. Instead of having the folder template of 'Captures, Processed and Trash', it has been decided to use 'Move to, Output and Trash'. I'm not sure that this is particularly helpful and it could invite some late-night irreversible errors. Independently of the poor ergonomics and illegibility of their dialogue box for creating sessions, there is no ready means of removing sessions that I can see from within the program. (And the User guide doesn't give a clue about this). Before, under the Organize tool, it was really quite easy to create and remove Sessions, something I've done thousands upon thousands of times.

I've never used sessions… :-(
it is not part of my DAM… I am only talking about the raw converter, which is IMO what we should be looking for with a… raw converter.
I have my own way to classify, post prod work, store and back-up which has nothing to do with the RC. Hence I can rework anyfile whenever I wish with whatever RC i wold prefer for such or such work…
One more time, I think we must be open minded and see what these guys have worked for… and even wait for some upcoming release, as they said that their new way of SW developping will enable them to react quickly… (and that's a good news when one sees the slow speed they had for relaeses of V 3…)

Nicolas,

I admire your political correctness and must learn from it. In that spirit allow me to reiterate that Sessions were a foundational component of the program introduced about 6 months after the program became available on the Mac, probably in some iteration of V1, and hence central to the workflow. Even if I process a Raw file in another converter, I find for my personal use and habit, the previous Sessions folder template structure and naming convention (Captures, Processed and Trash) very congenial to my way of working. It obliged me to name a shoot, often with quite a few Keywords, and having a session folder insured that I would have my Captures and Processed files separate, and that trashed files might be given a second look since they were not in the OS trash. I wasn't enthused about this feature when it was first introduced, but have now become accustomed to it and the organizational framework that it has provided me.

I like sessions and got very used to it, but, as Nicolas says, with time you should be able to design a system that works best for your work flow, and at the end it may even be more efficient and productive. Wen I first got my back and C1 it was such a help for me since every new assignment, in front of the client, literally, I "ordered" a new session set of files and began shooting. This, under the "fog of war" was dear to me.

All the changes in to the new black-background generation of C 1 was not so well received by most users including me, but now I'm beginning to get used and may one day even love it -maybe-.

I remember when I got good ad Photoshop, it was version 3. I distinctly remember thinking that "I will never upgrade to 4" I tend to not want things to move from where I'm used to find them...

Regarding performance, we would have to use it at least a week to compare results, but to me it looks faster for finding focus and processing times, but it is just first impression.

It seams to be a program with more options and generally better organized than before, the COLOR EDITOR is seldom used, for some reason, now that it is included in the C1 program I want to see if I get it ... and use it.

Lens corrections work, I tested them with my Mamiya 35mm (With the pre-4.5 version at least).

The list of all processed images may be good for a busy photographer.

Downloading and installation was plug-and-play for me, but you have to have the correct OS (I think is 10.5)

The good thing is that now there is a growing number of very good "digital laboratory" programs out there, and we can all take our dollars where we feel more at home... in my case, this is a free upgrade, so I may be a bit partisan about it... or.. call me the good cop...

I must admit that after some trials today, I've not been able to get the same image quality (works flow can be OK) with 4.5 than 3.7…
will have to dig more on 4.5.

A bit of desillusion though :-(

Nicolas, Can you elaborate on "I've not been able to get the same image quality"?

thanks

leonardobarreto.com said:

Nicolas, Can you elaborate on "I've not been able to get the same image quality"?

thanks

Click to expand...

Hi Leonardo,

Just to let you know. Nicolas has just departed for a shoot. I don't think that he will be able to reply soon but maybe he shall use his iPhone once he gets there ;-)

Cheers,

Cem, don't worry, I am having a relax week end, and Monday I may run son tests to see what difference in the file are there, but I am curious about it..

I also would like to find some sort of USER MANUAL for the program. For example: you can always --with the hand tool cursor-- double click on the image and it goes to 100% view ... then ... wright click and a floating temporary navigator window appears on top of the main image.

There must be a ton of tricks like this that are new and not obvious ... another is how to make changes to "ALL SELECTE IMAGES' with the SHIFT key... like batch processing or adjusting white balance etc...

take care Usakligil

LoL!

I am in the plane, waiting for take off...

Will post samples next week if still needed.

Ciao tutti!

Cem_Usakligil said:

Hi Leonardo,

Just to let you know. Nicolas has just departed for a shoot. I don't think that he will be able to reply soon but maybe he shall use his iPhone once he gets there ;-)

Cheers,

Click to expand...

leonardobarreto.com said:

I also would like to find some sort of USER MANUAL for the program. For example: you can always --with the hand tool cursor-- double click on the image and it goes to 100% view ... then ... wright click and a floating temporary navigator window appears on top of the main image
l

Click to expand...

Great find for the right click to get a floating window. This inches toward getting us some of the functionality of the old focus tool. When I raised this question on the Phase forum, the Phase representative had no clue about this feature of a floating navigator window. I still find the former focus too in 3.7.9 Pro better. But you have still made a great find.

I don't have the time right now to install and try out (my old system crashed and I've been preoccupied with setting up my new system, learning 64-bit Vista, etc.!), and seeing the comments at the PhaseOne forum made me disinclined to try it out.

One of the things I liked best about 3.7.x is the ability to quickly go from image to image, adjusting exposure, contrast, color balance, entirely with the keyboard, with various combinations of ctrol, alt, shift and the up/down cursors. There is a thread at PhasOne indicating that this extremely efficient functionality has been removed!

Is this true??

Don, I'm sorry to hear that "I don't have the time right now to install and try out (my old system crashed and I've been preoccupied with setting up my new system, learning 64-bit Vista, etc.!)"

The best way to have more time for your work is to move from Vista to MacOS, I hear that it has -Vista- more than 5 million lines of code, or, in other words, many more millions of "moving parts" that are not really needed, but that is a never ending other question..

There is -or there are?- a lot of opinions regarding C1 4.5 and all other C1's. I used to not like it compared to the earlier versions, but now I'm beginning to do so and may one day even get to love it.

The program is a lot more complete than before and is very flexible. All the TABS can be changed, all the tools float, and you can make your own TAB's.

If you wright click on any TAB you get a long menu of all the functions that can be turn on-off. For example, if you are editing High Dynamic Range you can, in seconds, bring in the CURVES, LEVELS, NAVEGATOR and HISTOGRAM to see in real time the effects of the HDR. Also you can make a duplicate of the image you are working with and place it alongside the other to compare. The you open the VIEWER window with the two images side to side --better if you are using two displays-- and, with the hand tool cursor on, double ckick to get to 100% anywhere the cursor is, and dobule click again to go to FIT TO SIZE, --or-- right click anywhere to get the floating NAVIGATOR.

All of this is made to work super fast and to arrange your tools --a large menu of tools-- in the most comfortable way accordingly to the task of the day...

Some photographers may like this, others will just read negative posts of others and decide that is not "good enough", and that's fine, there are plenty of options out there and for some reason the best product is not always the one with more users ... just look a VISTA and the amount of users it has...

While it is assuredly worthwhile to look at positive new features, if one takes the program seriously, it then might be considered legitimate to point out former crucial, workflow-enhancing aspects that are no longer present. I think that being able to adjust numerical values from the keyboard in appropriate fields is one such aspect, as Don has indicated.

Ralph, I agree with what you say, I was just not familiar with the feature you and Don are refering to and don't understand why Phase One would live it out, it would be worthwhile to ask them. I will post something in the users forum to see what is the story about this particular astpect...

I have asked them. The feature is not yet ready, apparently.

They seam to be working on features that are not yet ready, for example FTP web uploading is even in the menu but gray...

By the way, have you seen the tone of the posts of the Owners Forum? few positive comments and pouring negative ones, is this what Phase calls:

"Capture One 4 PRO has been designed to enhance the image quality of professional digital captures. It is built on a darkroom paradigm to enhance images and minimize the need for post-production. The workflow is responsive and flexible, adapting to a photographer’s needs....."

Probably it is a combination of people not finding things --the Users Guide tells you only the obvious basic things--, features not yet implemented -like this case-...

or it may be a case of a small company that is way over their heads competing with the likes of ADOBE and APPLE.

If I was Phase I would take $100 out of the PRO version just as to compensate for the time we where waiting and to make users more inclined to go walk alone while 4.5 matures in to all its potential.

Leonardo:

Thanks for your concern! The crash, though, was not OS related - it was hardware failure, which will happen with Vista or Mac, or anything else for that matter. I actually did look at Mac as an option, not extensively, but came away with the distinct impression that it would cost 50% to 100% more for equivalent hardware power, relative to the Dell system I ended up with.

I have been reasonably happy with Capture One 3.7.4 for a number of years now, primarily with the efficiency of the workflow, and the image quality. And I'm sure 4.5 brings some new things to the table, that I might like.

But as Ralph points out, to gain these, at the expense of losing something that is pretty crucial, at least to my personal workflow, seems ill-advised.

But thanks for confirming what others have indicated, as far as losing those keyboard shortcuts.

leonardobarreto.com said:

Nicolas, Can you elaborate on "I've not been able to get the same image quality"?

thanks

Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay, but I've been quite busy…

Today I have done some more extensive test on this image:



I have developped the raw file shot with a 1Ds3 with:
C1pro 3.7.4
C1pro 4.5
LightRoom2

C1pro 3.7.4 was far better than the 2 others, in terms of micro contrats, cripsness, details, noise, shadows, quality/richness of colors…

LR2 was even better than C1pro 4.5…

I am not talking about GUI, for which I guess I could get used after some more time, but just the image quality is not there…


:-{

Nicolas,

Are you using the same ICC profiles?