• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

A palette of the Gods

I spent a couple of afternoons photographing these fascinating creations, a palette of the Gods. I hope this is a suitable place to post this.

This is another contribution from my studies emphasizing transillumination. I am trying to retain the color and saturation, but moderated by transillumination to control the contrast and balance the light.

This is taken in front of the Plantation Garden Restaurant on Kauai, where there is an excellent display of orchids and other tropical plants.

I am trying to use the magenta/purple against the green background to create a color contrast.
One of the problems and also a strength of this composition is the intimate feeling created by filling the frame. But the trade off is that part of the blossom is cropped off. Does that annoy you?

Shot with Canon 5D and the 70-300 F4 IS DO lens set at 300mm and f5.6, hand held ISO 400 at 1/200 sec.
1328IMG_8639_web-med.jpg
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Nathaniel,

Thanks for sharing more of your studies with transillumination. The appearance of the flower petals is indeed uniquely enhanced this way. The glow in the bright parts of the petals set the stage for the key importance of the center of the flower where the insects are to be dawn.

This picture may work just as is, printed large. Still, I would have like far more detail of the center of the flower. I'm not sure about the cropping. If we could see draw-dropping detail, then the periphery of the flower would not matter. Maybe there is some issue in getting focus under these circumstances, but I do miss the detail.

So while it's utterly beautiful, I really don't think the concept is fully realized. But that is only my subjective view of things.

Asher
 
Asher,

Thanks for your comments. In the usual case I am happy to ascede to your experience and expertise. But I am wondering what detail is missing from the center of the flower? Except for the evident detail on the bottom petal, the visible part of the inner core (I think that's the technical term) is rather a neutral ceamy white. There is perhaps a little nubby texture that is not rendered there, but my concept it to capture the soft glow of the orchid, not to make a stark sharp rendering.

I find flower photography to be particularly challenging. In this case the breeze would puff up and I would lose focus, from time to time.

And while it is true that the concept is not fully realized, it is an excuse to go back and try again. I used to say that I could be happy taking pictures of nature's beauty, even without film in my camera. What is the digital equivlent, without a memory card?


-Nat
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Nat,

Maybe this picture will be perfect blown up too 16 inches high. Then one is confronted with the important part of the flower which you have images well. I just don't know.

As it is, the core, it seems to me, would be better with more detail. That with the added glow would to me be perfect. Then, no matter the size the image would be better balanced. no this is no rule I am proposing, just my own take on this one image.

If the flower is entirely images then softness is fine.

Asher

BTW, what are the lens and shutter details. Also with such beautiful images, you have not added the © Nathaniel Alpert to the IPTC code in your file.
 

janet Smith

pro member
I find flower photography to be particularly challenging

Hello Nat

I've tried photographing orchids, and must say that I found them akward to do, there are few native species of orchid here in the UK, the few there are tend to be tiny.

I was given one as a gift recently by a friend (looked similar to the one you have posted here) I took several attempts at photographing it, but didn't get anything I was entirely happy with. I do a lot of flower photography, take a look at my website if you like. From my point of view the compsition of this shot isn't quite working for me, particularly the cropping of the bottom petal and generally the tight framing, also it looks a bit soft, although as I say I know how difficult it is....

Could you taker another try and not frame it so tightly? or alternatively focus on one particular part of the flower getting tighter in?

I'll try to find time to dig my orchid shots out from my other hard drive, although there is one of them in my "Flower Portraits" gallery if you want to take a look, although as I say I was not entirely happy with it....
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Jan,

Imagine one is next to this and it's so large one could almost put your head in the central tube. At that size the cutting off the edges would not be important. What draws the bee in? The color of the petals and the scent and detail of the central tube. I think that the composition effect may depend on size.

I generally photograph orchids wide open aperture and a group of flowers against a light background. That seems to work for me.

This approach is novel, to me at least.

Asher
 

janet Smith

pro member
I generally photograph orchids wide open aperture and a group of flowers against a light background. That seems to work for me

IMG_0004cleanSS%20copy.jpg


Hi Asher

Here is the one I was referring to that I took a few months ago, like you I tend to work with a very wide aperture, if not wide open, I wanted to include the very bottom of the lower petal, I like the shape.

This was taken in my kitchen on the working top, by the window, so it was back lit. I still haven't got any that I'm satisfied with. I'll have to try again sometime....

Do you have any examples of your orchids that you could show us?
 
Hi Janet,

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I just visited you web site and I love your work. Your orchid photo is loverly, there is no denying it. The two orchid photos really demonstrate alternative approaches to composition. I am trying to envelop the viewer in the soft glowing petals and it is there that I have tried to obtain good focus. The idea of envolopment is achieved, at least in my concept, by the close viewpoint, letting some of the petals escape the frame. As I noted earlier, I am using transillumination to soften the shadows. In making this photo, I was imagining it as a large print on Epson Velvet, or similar paper. It is almost an impressionistic effect I am going for., not the sharpest focus which might produce a clinical, hard result.

On the other hand, I did ask for opinion, whether the cropping of that bottom petal was a deal-breaker. Apparently it is for you. That is what I wanted to know, but I can't go back to Kauai for at least anothe year. So, a retake will have to wait. I do have other attempts, but not the same flower, that I will post when I hae a chance. Perhaps you can comment on those as well.

I understand that you are not entirly happy with the orchid you posted. And so it is a bit unfair to analyze that. But still the contrasting approach may be useful to discuss. I am painfully ignorant of flower anatomy. So, I will just say that rather sexual-looking protuberance is the only thing in your photo that is in irelatively sharp focus. Even though all the petals are well inside the frame, none are sharply focused, particularly the one at the bottom. That lack of focus on the bottom petal is particularly distracting as my eye is drawn to it because of the color contrast.

This problem of selecting a region of good focus is really difficult. In natural light, on a breezy day it seems almost insoluble.

This comparison has helped me realize that both your and my composition suffer from the same basic problem. The center of the mind's attention is too dark. They probably would work better if, like a face in a portrait, it was brighter than the surround.

Best,

-Nat

Hello Nat

I've tried photographing orchids, and must say that I found them akward to do, there are few native species of orchid here in the UK, the few there are tend to be tiny.

I was given one as a gift recently by a friend (looked similar to the one you have posted here) I took several attempts at photographing it, but didn't get anything I was entirely happy with. I do a lot of flower photography, take a look at my website if you like. From my point of view the compsition of this shot isn't quite working for me, particularly the cropping of the bottom petal and generally the tight framing, also it looks a bit soft, although as I say I know how difficult it is....

Could you taker another try and not frame it so tightly? or alternatively focus on one particular part of the flower getting tighter in?

I'll try to find time to dig my orchid shots out from my other hard drive, although there is one of them in my "Flower Portraits" gallery if you want to take a look, although as I say I was not entirely happy with it....
 

janet Smith

pro member
I can't go back to Kauai for at least anothe year. So, a retake will have to wait. I do have other attempts, but not the same flower, that I will post when I hae a chance. Perhaps you can comment on those as well
Hi Nat

What a shame you can't go back, for a year.... I'll gladly comment on any more that you may post....

the contrasting approach may be useful to discuss. I am painfully ignorant of flower anatomy. So, I will just say that rather sexual-looking protuberance is the only thing in your photo that is in irelatively sharp focus.

Yes, this was my intention, I did take many variations focusing on different areas of the flower, my intention with this one was to have just the parts you have pointed out sharp, so at least I achieved that much, but I'm still not happy with it. As I say I found it a particularly diificult flower. You'll laugh when I tell you this, but I found the shot a little lacking in colour, so decided to add a bit of colour in there, the blue area is in fact an out of focus washing up liquid bottle on the working top! (I did take some without as well).

This problem of selecting a region of good focus is really difficult. In natural light, on a breezy day it seems almost insoluble

Yes you're right, flower photogtraphy isn't as easy as people think, at least I was indoors with this orchid, but most of my flower work is outside, I have a windy garden, so I know exactly what you mean...

This comparison has helped me realize that both your and my composition suffer from the same basic problem. The center of the mind's attention is too dark. They probably would work better if, like a face in a portrait, it was brighter than the surround

Well said, I couldn't agree more, I'll try to find time over the next few days to retrieve some of the other orchid shots, some where I have used smaller aperturers and see what you think. I go away for a month soon, so if I miss anything you post I'll try and pick them up when I come back...
 
Based on the comments of Asher Kelman and discussions, above, with Janet Smith, I thought the image might be improved somewhat by three maneuvers: 1. Add some "glow" light to the central portion. 2. Do some local sharpening. And 3. Darkening some of the translucense just outside the center. Does this add or subtract?


1328IMG_8639_web_revised.jpg
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Nathaniel,

Yes, the central tube is now more important. It will be even better when the center is printed at about the size of a human face. then we will look at the central tube and wander out from there to see what this center "belongs to".

I just saw a picture in someone's home of such a view of a flower. I'd never have remarked on the picture's construction, except it does follow what we have described here and the same solution! The center is more defined and important!

Asher
 
Top