• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Travelog: Looking at Los Angeles and Surrounding Communities: Religion - King Fahad Mosque

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I realized that beyond wishing Fahim greetings on Festivals, I knew very little about the Islamic Religion and had neveer vsited a Mosque since being in Turkey years back. At that time, I just was amazed at the beauty but had no opportunity to meet people.

This time I allowed enough time to meet folk studying the Koran and then for evening prayers.

First the location. This Mosque is in a busy street in Culver City, part of the Megopalis of Los Angeles with 12 million people within 10 miles of here.

Inside I met folk from Egypt, Senegal, Los Angeles and many other places. Everyone was welcoming and beyond courteous.

Here is a view from the street.


[Group 3]-_0070526__0070552-27Mosque_1200.jpg


Asher Kelman: King Fahad Mosque

Culver City, California, December 2017
 
Last edited:

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Notice the flock of birds flying by. I thought that was a sign of a welcome and it worked out like that!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I was invited to enter the inside of the mosque to join the evening prayer. I sat on a chair at the back. The security giard was especially kind and we spoke in French. He told me I could photograph but not the women. So I was very priviliged as I do not know the customs and thought it was generous.

First there was a rich voice on a loudspeaker chanting prayers. I couldnt see whee iot was coming from, but it was, I beleive the man from Senegal, formely French West Africa. Exceptionally beautiful voice. I didnt understand, but some of the words suggested a god of mercy, from my knowledge of Hebrew and that some roots are in common.



[Group 7]-_0070596__0070610-18 images_0000-Prayer standing_1200.jpg


Asher Kelman: King Fahad Mosque - Prayer # 1

Culver City, California, December 2017





[Group 7]-_0070596__0070610-18 images_0000-Prayer_1200.jpg


Asher Kelman: King Fahad Mosque - Prayer #2

Culver City, California, December 2017
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Unlike Churches and Synagogues, there are no pictures or stained glass windows with people or animals. This is because apparently one wants to avoid have folk worship the figure, like an idol of ancient times. So instead, there are beautiful tile and glass patterns. These seem to have evolved over hundereds of years to be a form of art in themselves. I will show some samples.

In addtion there are verses from the Kor'an which a number of people, but not everyone could read and translate for me. Some folk there, the Americans, dont seem to be able to fluently read Arabic. Others are very accomplished!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Inside the study room, there were hundereds of books on the shleves with guilded letter embossed. In addition, there was a tapestry that had been in Maccah on the venerated structure around which the pilgrims cycle. This is the Kaaba:

The Kaaba (Arabic: ٱلْكَعْبَة‎ al-kaʿbah IPA: [alˈkaʕba], "The Cube"), also referred as al-ka`bah al-musharrafah (The Holy Kaaba), is a building at the center of Islam's most sacred mosque, that is Al-Masjid Al-Ḥarām (Arabic: الـمَـسـجِـد الـحَـرَام‎, The Sacred Mosque), in Mecca, Hejaz, Saudi Arabia.[1] It is the most sacred site in Islam.[2] It is considered by Muslims to be the bayt Allāh, the "House of God", and has a similar role to the Tabernacle and Holy of Holies in Judaism. Wherever they are in the world, Muslims are expected to face the Kaaba when performing salat (prayer). From any point in the world, the direction facing the Kaaba is called the qibla.

_0070562.jpg


Asher Kelman: Tapestry from the Kaaba


Asher
 
Last edited:

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Asher,

This is interesting as it is very rare that a non muslim enters a Mosquée.
I am very happy that you were welcomed and authorized to shoot some photographs.
This shows open minded spirits!
Your images are impressive…
Next a visit into a Synagogue?

Signed: the atheist : )
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Asher,

Thanks so much for that wonderful photographic essay and the accompanying commentary.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thanks Doug, Tom and Nicolas for the visit.

I want to share more of the beauty that I expereinced.

The windows on the right of the tiled central prayer focus, where the Imam stands, has a wonderful floral pattern.




IMG_5950.jpg


Asher Kelman: KFM Floral windows




IMG_6000 copy.jpg


Asher Kelman: KFM Floral windows


The net effect on mood is that, although one is uplifted by beauty, one is not seduced to a story about humans that woukld distract from submission and closeness ot God. This is very different from Judaism where symbols might be used, like the 7 Branched Candelebrium from Kind solomon's Temple or the Shofar or even the Star of David. Likewise, there are no Christ like figures of a savior for souls. Such a statue would be considered close to idolatorous as one cannot bow down to any statues or fugres of humans or animals.

So inside the Mosque, there is a purity of subject: humility and submission, not reference to even Mohammed, (PBUH), as the prayers are to Allahahu Achba, not for the Prophet, Mohammed, to intercede, as far as I gather. So for me, right now, at least, the theology of the Muslim prayer process is tentative in my understanding. But for sure, it removes all ideas of people, veneration of objects and the like. For sure, a Buddha would be very foreign indeed, to say the least and couldnt be ever brought into the sanctuary. even for a temporary exhibition.

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Tiles are used as a reliable and durable manner to define parts of the sanctuary and embed artistic decoration without risking impropriety. For sure, there are libraries of mosaic designs available, some many hundreds of years old.

Interestingly, in Turkey, Mosques employed the best architects and if the fellow was Armenian Christian, that was fine too.


"Sinan, also called Mimar Sinan (“Architect Sinan”) or Mimar Koca Sinan (“Great Architect Sinan”) (born c. 1490, Ağırnaz, Turkey—died July 17, 1588, Constantinople [now Istanbul]), most celebrated of all Ottoman architects, whose ideas, perfected in the construction of mosques and other buildings, served as the basic themes for virtually all later Turkish religious and civic architecture.

The son of Greek or Armenian Christian parents, Sinan entered his father’s trade as a stone mason and carpenter. In 1512, however, he was drafted into the Janissary corps. Sinan, whose Christian name was Joseph, converted to Islam, and he began a lifelong service to the Ottoman royal house and to the great sultan Süleyman I (reigned 1520–66) in particular. Following a period of schooling and rigorous training, Sinan became a construction officer in the Ottoman army, eventually rising to chief of the artillery.

He first revealed his talents as an architect in the 1530s by designing and building military bridges and fortifications. In 1539 he completed his first nonmilitary building, and for the remaining 40 years of his life he was to work as the chief architect of the Ottoman Empire at a time when it was at the zenith of its political power and cultural brilliance. The number of projects Sinan undertook is massive—79 mosques, 34 palaces, 33 public baths, 19 tombs, 55 schools, 16 poorhouses, 7 madrasahs (religious schools), and 12 caravansaries, in addition to granaries, fountains, aqueducts, and hospitals. His three most famous works are the Şehzade Mosque and the Mosque of Süleyman I the Magnificent, both of which are in Istanbul, and the Selim Mosque at Edirne." Read more here




As a result of these elegant designs, certain features, like mosaic inscriptions in gold and ornate celing domes, have become synonymous with the finest and most ambitious mosque architecture.

Here, I do not know what architect they used or where the tile desgns originated and whether or not they used the locally avaialble mostly Mexican Hispanic labor to install the work.

In the front, there is a remarkable plaque honoring the dedication of the building to be a mosque.


IMG_5948.jpg


Asher Kelman: Tiled mosaic plaque naming the King Fahid Mosque


Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
It must have been a great and moving experience for you Asher. A fine mosque, great people and grand photos. Cheers, Mike

Thanks for stopping by, Mike. We need to hold a lantern to the world in which we live so we are not so ignorant that we do stupid things.

Asher
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Tiles are used as a reliable and durable manner to define parts of the sanctuary and embed artistic decoration without risking impropriety. For sure, there are libraries of mosaic designs available, some many hundreds of years old.

A lovely shot of a lovely construct. Thanks.

Interesting to see the more formal (and more often seen decades ago) romanization of ابن ("ibn") rather than the today more common one ("bin").

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
So there was a woman waiting outside. I didnt approach her but I found I had included her in this picture.


[Group 2]-_0070568__0070573-6 images_waiting for evening prayers_1200.jpg



Asher Kelman: Inside Lobby of Mosque

King Fahad Mosque Culver City, California Novemember 2017

6 images, Canon 5DII 50mm 1.2L
stitched in Autopano Giga 4.0


I needed by Tilt/Shift 24mm II lens, but it is damaged. Domage! This series is a work in progress and I will be returning to expore further.


Asher
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Pilgrims circumbulate...not ‘ circle ‘.

The verse is from Surah Baqqara....

The following is the context translation.....

“ And ( mention ) when We made the House a place of return for the people and ( a place of security ).

And take ( O Believers ), FROM THE STANDINGS PLACE OF ABRAHAM, a place of prayer.

And We charged Abraham ( pbuh ) and Ismail ( pbuh ), saying,

‘ Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf ( circumbulation ) and those who are staying ( there ) for worship and those who bow and prostrate ( in prayer )

“.



Inside the study room, there were hundereds of books on the shleves with guilded letter embossed. In addition, there was a tapestry that had been in Maccah on the venerated structure around which the pilgrims cycle. This is the Kaaba:

The Kaaba (Arabic: ٱلْكَعْبَة‎ al-kaʿbah IPA: [alˈkaʕba], "The Cube"), also referred as al-ka`bah al-musharrafah (The Holy Kaaba), is a building at the center of Islam's most sacred mosque, that is Al-Masjid Al-Ḥarām (Arabic: الـمَـسـجِـد الـحَـرَام‎, The Sacred Mosque), in Mecca, Hejaz, Saudi Arabia.[1] It is the most sacred site in Islam.[2] It is considered by Muslims to be the bayt Allāh, the "House of God", and has a similar role to the Tabernacle and Holy of Holies in Judaism. Wherever they are in the world, Muslims are expected to face the Kaaba when performing salat (prayer). From any point in the world, the direction facing the Kaaba is called the qibla.

_0070562.jpg


Asher Kelman: Tapestry from the Kaaba


Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Pilgrims circumbulate...not ‘ circle ‘.

The verse is from Surah Baqqara....

The following is the context translation.....

“ And ( mention ) when We made the House a place of return for the people and ( a place of security ).

And take ( O Believers ), FROM THE STANDINGS PLACE OF ABRAHAM, a place of prayer.

And We charged Abraham ( pbuh ) and Ismail ( pbuh ), saying,

‘ Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf ( circumbulation ) and those who are staying ( there ) for worship and those who bow and prostrate ( in prayer )

“.


Thanks, Fahim, for the helpful translation. I was amazed that the King Fahad Mosque, managed to acquire such a unique tapestry. Is there just one tapestry per year and where exactly is it placed in its original place in Maccah.

I don't quite understand the distinction between "circumambulation", a new term for me, and "circle", unless the latter has connotations which are some way negative or unfitting.

Feel free to add your insight and any corrections to our related thread here. Also, any chance you can read the text on the blue quote in post #14?

Asher
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
The second verse very loosely can be translated as follows:

It directly addresses the followers of the Torot and Bible...

‘ o! People of the Books..why do you argue (deny, dissent, contradict by changing and wrongful interpretation ) Abraham ( pbuh ), and that which has been revealed to you in the Torot, and the Bible. ‘.

The tapestry is from the covering of the Holy Kaaba, which is changed every year. Check the making of this cover. The replaced cover is given to a tribe which to this day hold the key to the door of the Holy Kaaba.

I, too, have a verse from such a covering.

The covering is called a KISWAH.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Fabulous, Fahim!

This is a really valuable help. I guessed it was something like that from my young and so courteous Egyptian "guide" who had difficulty translating it. But he did get the essence, without the eloquence. What is the Arabic word used, for this complex term, "argue" so I can study it. Interesting that you had to use so many descriptors to provide the sufficient range of meaning. Must be a very rich and grand word in Arabic with a lot of poetic utility and relationships.

By "Torat", you mean Torah, plural?

I will have to discover where the story of Abraham ,(z'l'), diverges in our cultural narratives.

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
توراة Is the word I am trying to locate in the mosaic tile, in the text. Haha! It is hard!

Then I want to find your word there for "argue"

Asher
 
Top