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  #31  
Old August 23rd, 2015, 01:05 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Here, Antonio, your composition removes any barriers between the image principal content and our rich experience. The angle you've chosen excludes everything non-essential from our view and has the conveyor belt, itself, projected dynamically towards us, consistent with its function of moving the bread forward towards us.

BTW, this cannot likely be improved with a larger format camera unless the DOF change happens to add some power!

Well done!

Asher
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  #32  
Old August 23rd, 2015, 04:37 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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You Asher and your great approaches on images, as always...

And I have seen other very welcome critics...

Thank you for the encouraging lines !

I hope in a few days, to be able to re-shoot here using a large wide-angle lens. Wider than 30mm !

I have "conquered" the guys working here and I can tell you that the bread is very good !

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  #33  
Old August 31st, 2015, 12:19 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Default Bread Project strickes again

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  #34  
Old August 31st, 2015, 12:58 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Default ... and again in several essais.

This one is to be repeated with a bread inside near the cloth !

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  #35  
Old August 31st, 2015, 01:31 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
I really like this Antonio, it works for me and has impact as well as meaning and status! I wonder whether this is complete or you might still be optimizing this shot?

An extra component in lighting or atmosphere might increase the drama.

Asher
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  #36  
Old August 31st, 2015, 02:10 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Thank you Asher.
I made these images as well as a bunch of others, today. A few hours ago...
These are not the final ones, they are just essais but the essential is there already.

I only used the available light and it was a late afternoon with cloudy sky.
I realized that either I have to make some shots in daylight with the help of some kind of extra light - flash or whatever - or I wait until the night comes and use ambiente and others lights.

I am going there now. Now it is dark and we just had dinner. Local time: 21h and they will be working until 23h

Thank you for commenting !

Forgot to say: Extreme wide angle is fantastic in this situation.
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  #37  
Old August 31st, 2015, 02:26 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
Thank you Asher.
I made these images as well as a bunch of others, today. A few hours ago...
These are not the final ones, they are just essais but the essential is there already.

I only used the available light and it was a late afternoon with cloudy sky.
I realized that either I have to make some shots in daylight with the help of some kind of extra light - flash or whatever - or I wait until the night comes and use ambiente and others lights.

I am going there now. Now it is dark and we just had dinner. Local time: 21h and they will be working until 23h

Thank you for commenting !

Forgot to say: Extreme wide angle is fantastic in this situation.
Glad to see you using extreme wide angle. As I always preach, that's the straighforward way of getting the subject with it's valuable context too!

I would suggest that the baker add a light shower of flower and you catch that with flash or else include the expression of a baker or the face of a boy or girl looking through the window!

This is a really fabulous project but a lot of work. Remember to give the guys wine or a case of beer as well as prints, even small ones for now!

Asher
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  #38  
Old August 31st, 2015, 03:44 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Thank you for the tips.

Regarding the beer... I've already done so !

Been there. It turned out not to be a proficuous visit this time... I made some photographs yes but... bah !
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  #39  
Old September 1st, 2015, 02:38 AM
Wolfgang Plattner Wolfgang Plattner is offline
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Hi Antonio

just dropped in here by accident ... shame on me!
Chapeau for this great artwork on an old and necessary handcraft ... I had smomething similar in mind, as one of my favorite local shops is our bakery - but: they do their work from 1:00 to 6:00 that's simply too early for my old bones :-))
Thank you for your (in any way) delicious photos!
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  #40  
Old September 1st, 2015, 05:48 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Thank you for stopping by.

This bakery works from 16.30h to 23.00h and at 3.00h, someone who has the keys go, fatch and distributes the bread.

Regards
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  #41  
Old September 2nd, 2015, 05:38 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Hi Antonio,

I am following this new project of yours with great interest. Your work is progressing and your focus is increasing; it seems that new ideas for composition are starting to form in your head. You have started with a couple of general context shots and are looking more closely at the details now. What a joy it is being able to follow your journey here.
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  #42  
Old September 2nd, 2015, 07:30 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Thank you for your comment Cem. Much appreciated ! Indeed !

My expectations in the pursuit of wide angle photographs were confirmed with the arrival and experimenting in action the great 7-14 Olympus (14-28) f/2.8 which focuses as close as 20 centimeters. Of course, when the lens is focused at this distance and even using it's widest aperture the DOF is not very, very obvious, but enough to make nice images. And I like that ! It gives me pleasure !
This very knead/mixing movement has been taken other angles as bellow in raw, not worked on.
I need to be placed in a better position to get the moment he throws some flour inside. As he cooperates, I can ask to do so repeatedly until I get the final photograph.
Anyway, next Saturday I will be visiting another bakery using similar processes. I hope to get more beautiful photographs.

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  #43  
Old September 5th, 2015, 05:36 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Another bakery. 30 kms from home.
Two young men work till 4 in the morning ! Hard work. I came home at 0 h.
Now, with flash. Hard work for me also because they were always moving around. However, I got some nice pictures for this project.
Slowly, I am building the set. I want to reach 20 great images.
I do the images and redo them, over and over. I compare. I trash and regret the next minute.
The files are huge. Need a new Mac. Retina Display. Too much money.
When I have enough to work on the photo, I go away.
I look and I see. Sometimes I look and I don't see. Later, I look and I see. Sometimes I never see, just look.
I am having fun ! LOL
Wait for more. They will come some day ! God bless the 14 mm !

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  #44  
Old September 5th, 2015, 07:37 AM
Andy brown Andy brown is offline
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More good stuff Antonio.
Good looking dough that.
I made pizzas a few days ago. Making the dough is the most important part. I've come to really enjoy it.
What is your ambition with the set of 20?
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  #45  
Old September 6th, 2015, 05:56 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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I want to get 20 good images because that makes a set I can propose to be published in magazines and - when printed - can make an interesting exhibition.

At the moment I am just photographing and making choices. Later, I will fine tune the criteria with my own standards.

For example, the one I post herewith is not one of the best. The flash is too present. Most probably I will be able to make another session.

Thank you for commenting Andy.
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  #46  
Old September 6th, 2015, 11:18 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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This will be one of the final works !

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  #47  
Old September 6th, 2015, 11:38 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
Another bakery. 30 kms from home.
Two young men work till 4 in the morning ! Hard work. I came home at 0 h.
Now, with flash. Hard work for me also because they were always moving around. However, I got some nice pictures for this project.
Slowly, I am building the set. I want to reach 20 great images.
I do the images and redo them, over and over. I compare. I trash and regret the next minute.
The files are huge. Need a new Mac. Retina Display. Too much money.
When I have enough to work on the photo, I go away.
I look and I see. Sometimes I look and I don't see. Later, I look and I see. Sometimes I never see, just look.
I am having fun ! LOL
Wait for more. They will come some day ! God bless the 14 mm !

At last! This has a good command of the sense of the action of "making" bread. I have come to the belief that that ultra wide angle is indispensable for getting both the action and the environmental context.

Kudos, Antonio!

This extra effort is paying off!

Asher
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  #48  
Old September 6th, 2015, 11:45 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Default A few words on choice of ultrawide lenses for such a series!

Antonio,

One could achieve the same result with "stitching" adjacent overlapping frames or else go for investment in an ultra wide. To many photographers,14 mm is considered a very specialized focal length and almost for most purposes, an unneeded luxury. This demanding series shows how this needs to be rethought. In fact, acquiring the skills, experience and instinct to use an ultrawide with people doing a task will pay off over and over again. Suddenly we add to the frame social or environmental context! This enriches the picture and turns a mere documentation of a procedure into a statement of human endeavor!

As to focal length, 14 mm is an excellent choice, and compared to stitching, say from a 28mm lens, means one has to get the central action in one shot and then have two overlapping side shots to get in the b.g. However, this now commits us to a lot of work on the computer, which is really a waste of one's time if one has the right lens for the job! For action shots like this, stitching, although perfectly doable in skilled hands, is grossly inefficient and becomes a "black hole" to swallow up time!

Ultra wide lenses, especially for full frame cameras can be very expensive, but in real economics, the time saved is enormous! Samsung has a 14mm lens for DSLRs at just $319 from B&H. For to get rid of vertical distortion, Venus, a Chinese company has just released an amazing 15mn macro lens with 6mn of vertical shift for Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras and it's just about $550!

But, Antonio, the fine results with your compact and mature Olympus system, shows that price of these extraordinary optics can be had for much more reasonable price than for us dinosaurs insisting on "full frame cameras! Up to 16x 20" I expect that little practical benefit can be seen from the larger format "big brother" usual sensors of DSLRs!

(The Sony A7R may do better just because of the extra bite of the amassed pixels, more distinguishable DOF and greater dynamic range.)

Still, no matter the actual format, I now realize that a 14 mm focal length, (or as here it's 7mm version in the 4/3 system), is not a luxury, but part of one's toolkit if one wants to get the person doing a job in context like this!

Of course, for extra detail of static scenes, stitching delivers!

A good lesson to be learned here!

Asher
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  #49  
Old September 6th, 2015, 11:54 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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When using the 14mm for this work one has to be careful as not to make photographs introducing very strong perspective deformations.

In the first bakery in Palmela - near Setubal - I use the 30mm and then I realized that it was too narrow for those small rooms. Later when I came back with the 14 the captures begun to make more sense.
However, strong perspective deformations must be avoided like the one herewith.
I think small perspective deformations are acceptable.
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  #50  
Old September 6th, 2015, 12:14 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
When using the 14mm for this work one has to be careful as not to make photographs introducing very strong perspective deformations.

In the first bakery in Palmela - near Setubal - I use the 30mm and then I realized that it was too narrow for those small rooms. Later when I came back with the 14 the captures begun to make more sense.
However, strong perspective deformations must be avoided like the one herewith.
I think small perspective deformations are acceptable.




I would not be too scared of such deformation, Antonio!

Just know the distance right for human subjects with your particular lens. One can have control by arranging one's shooting position to put the bulbous giant machine in the background, so it's further away. Perspective has nothing to do with the lens, just lens to subject distance - only we realize it with wide angle lenses as so much of the closes "mass" is now included in the frame by the extreme angle of the lens. Switching to a 50mn focal length gets the identical perspective but only a portion of the object so one does not realize that distortion.

With the person in front, back up just enough so that the fellows nose is not distorted.

Once you settle on a lens to "first nose" distance, use that in all your shots and make sure the camera is level. Is there an electronic level in your camera? If not, a cube with several leveling bubbles can be so helpful. You may need a dual shoe adapter to accommodate the flash at the same time. With ultra wide angle lenses, the camera must be level and so, if there's room use a tripod. But in this case, a monopod with a level on the head would be perfect and not an incumbrance.

Asher
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  #51  
Old September 6th, 2015, 12:43 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Thank you Asher.
I am aware that I should have the camera leveled and yes it has a level.
I like strong perspectives and to do so I want to have one object in the foreground. In the last colored photo the great mass of orange is not working in aesthetically terms but in this one yes it does work !


The flash was with an assistant but when I repeat the session - I always want to repeat the sessions - I will have two flashes both on stands.
The image below has good light but I will drop it. The other previously shown of the same action, is better !
In this one the deformation doesn't bother me and the camera is leveled ! I think I am not going to photograph with levels and all that info stuff on the screen. I just work with my eyes and intuition.
What bothers me sometimes is the time the flash takes to recycle even with new batteries. After a while - Lithium-ion batteries - they begin to fail or perhaps I am too demanding...

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  #52  
Old September 6th, 2015, 04:44 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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  #53  
Old September 6th, 2015, 05:50 PM
Andy brown Andy brown is offline
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Antonio, great series but I worry this last one is a bit grungy looking.
Everything else looks clean and the bread and dough shots look delicious whereas this one looks a bit like any old dirty kitchen.

P.s I just tried to P.M you but it didn't go through, maybe your inbox is full.

Andy
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  #54  
Old September 7th, 2015, 06:16 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Thank you Andy for your valuable comment.
I see now that you this machine - in spite of being cleaned - looks here kind of dirty. Not because it looks old, used, but the cloth gives the bad touche.

I will let it out of the final collection and will try to make another photograph - or perhaps not - of the same machine because in the other bakery I can get the same - or similar - machine with better look.

My inbox is empty now

Health !
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  #55  
Old September 7th, 2015, 09:50 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Look at his tongue ! LOL

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  #56  
Old September 7th, 2015, 10:53 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Antonio,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
Look at his tongue ! LOL

Indeed! Very telling.

I am impressed by the way that all the vessels not currently being used or worked have their openings draped with white cloths (even the discharge mouth of what I take to be the "flour dispenser").

Best regards,

Doug
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  #57  
Old September 7th, 2015, 02:12 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Crises also arrives to bakeries and young people these days do not eat so much bread as before. At breakfast for example many people eats cereals instead.

So, this bakery has 4 ovens and now only 1 is working. Perhaps this bakery is not so successful as others because his owner also makes wine and is not concentrated on this business...

Thank you Doug for the comment !
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  #58  
Old September 7th, 2015, 07:33 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
Crises also arrives to bakeries and young people these days do not eat so much bread as before. At breakfast for example many people eats cereals instead.

So, this bakery has 4 ovens and now only 1 is working. Perhaps this bakery is not so successful as others because his owner also makes wine and is not concentrated on this business...

Thank you Doug for the comment !
Tragic!

I would hope that somewhere in Portugal new leaders will arise to put the economy back on track!

Asher
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  #59  
Old September 8th, 2015, 04:22 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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The question is not so simple Asher.
Portugal is a small country geographically at the corner of Europe subjected to the influence of the big ones, big banks, big corporations and so on...
Every government - whichever it is - will always be a puppet of the exterior.
The values are gone. Everywhere !
Much of the youth here, is abroad and the refugee crises only comes to enhance the misery and decay of not only Europe but also of this small country.
Lets move on to photography !
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  #60  
Old September 11th, 2015, 02:26 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Have you ever been to a bakery ?

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