Orphaning thread subscriptions by moving/splitting them

Hi Asher,

Sometimes a part of a thread becomes important (or off-topic) enough to place it in another top-level thread in it's own. This I applaud and see the need in doing so.

But when that happens to a complicated thread such as the one with art and monkeys, it becomes confusing/problematic due to the following reasons:
1) Some posts are left behind in the original thread, which may make the posts in the new one somewhat orphaned or out of context. In that case, the poster has to take care of quoting his/her original post again.
2) The posters who were "subscribed" to the original thread lose their subscriptions when a new one is created. I visit the site mostly based on the e-mail reminders I receive for new posts in the threads to which I am subscribed. In the example of arts/monkeys thread, it took me a day or two before realising that there was a new thread created elsewhere. So it may become confusing to say the least.

The first issue is not something you can solve by yourself. But re. the second one, is it not possible to copy the subscriptions from the original thread to the new one? Or at least warn the subscribed people by e-mail that this split has happened? TIA.

Cheers,

Cem

Cem, I don't know the answer to your question, but I have a suggestion FWIW. You are a frequent enough visitor and contributor that I think it might work well for you (and others).

I have a Favorites button for OPF that uses this URL:

"http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily"

That brings up the last 24 hours of threads, flagged with new material, threads I have posted in, etc. So far the traffic on the site is not so much that this is overwhelming, and it's a good way to keep up not only with the threads you've participated in, but also the new ones that you might want to join.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Hi Nill,

I appreciate the the suggestion, thanks. I already use the "Today's Posts" link you have mentioned, extensively indeed. In this particular situation it has failed to deliver since I have seen that there was a new post but I haven't realised that it was a split up from an older one to which I was subscribed. I did not have the time to check it out at that very moment and have forgotten to come back later. Eventually, I have discovered what was going on but it took some time.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not complaining at all. I thought that there might be a software option somewhere that'd make the copying of subscriptions possible to new threads. Otherwise, no harm done .

Cheers,

Cem

Well, note also that there is a little downwards-pointing arrow on the thread icon if you have posts in that thread. (I just figured this out myself.) I don't know whether it works when your thread has been split off, but I bet it does.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Well, shiver me timbers! (LOL)

Nill, I thank you sincerely. I have been wondering what those arrows meant, now I finally know.
Just hover on it for a while and it says: "you have N posts in this thread...". Great tip, thanks again.

Cheers,

Cem

Heh, I'm glad to know it myself, and you're the one who prompted me to figure it out — so thanks to you too! ;-)

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Cem,

We try hard to keep important threads on track. However we have to do this without censoring or deleting useful material. So when the "off topic" gets traction, we start a new thread.

What I must do from now on, is to always embed a reference to where children have gone and then reference back in these to the parent thread.

i have done that, but not always!

Will this cover our needs?

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

What I must do from now on, is to always embed a reference to where children have gone and then reference back in these to the parent thread.

i have done that, but not always!

Will this cover our needs?

Click to expand...

Hi Asher,

Since a follow up post to a split thread <posting off topic and looking guilty> will go out to subscribed members allowing them to choose to follow the new <still looking guilty> thread. So if that post could be automated it would solve the issue.

enjoy,

Sean

It is actually difficult to get an answer to suit all. As yet , I am not subscribed to any threads, but look at all. This will have to stop, I have to get organised. I use Nill's last post url, and new posts, but still miss some posts. I think some posts get lost in the transfer twixt threads.

I have asked for some threads to be split, when it is obvious that there is sort of four way cross posting going on. Often, the thread gets picked up again further down, in the wrong section. The problem most folk have, I guess, is when you are replying to a thread, unless you are quick, other posts have arrived. This is especially true in any image editing type of thread, or in my case when I delete most of what I want to say, really, really want to say, because it could either cause offense, or it may otherwise give an impression not intended.

Once the thread has been split, it probably needs the moderator to shuffle subsequent posts into the correct section.

I think, on the whole it works good enough, you can always duplicate parts of posts, if you think it helps. Its just difficult keeping folk on topic. I think I would get out 'the rod of iron' (how is the language is full of unintended meanings - heaven knows the inuendos that are intended and get missed, and those that get picked up but are not intended)

Best wishes,

Ray

I wouldn't want to get too heavy handed on the staying on topic thing. Digression is often the soul of a good discussion.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Ray West said:

It is actually difficult to get an answer to suit all............

Once the thread has been split, it probably needs the moderator to shuffle subsequent posts into the correct section.

I think, on the whole it works good enough, you can always duplicate parts of posts, if you think it helps.

Click to expand...

I only split up threads that have traction in an obviously unrelated subject that is blocking a principal and worthy topic from being followed.

Otherwise, "talmudic" diversions are welcome when nteresting since they add spice to the thread.

The main thing we have to do is to have pointers to the new offspring threads and then pointers back to the parent. With that, there's pretty well no problem,.

I am very selective about which posts in a thread I move together, and check for coherehce and for gaps in logic. Still, I'd love to know how to duplicate an existing post! Sometimes it is needed in two places!

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Still, I'd love to know how to duplicate an existing post! Sometimes it is needed in

Click to expand...

Something like:

[EDIT] Erased by Nicolas Claris - Please don't post any code

Or something similar. One would have to see the database schema to really know. Note the 1 should be an I to make insert but the software for the site rejected a post with even pseudo SQL in it.

not remotely talmudic,

Sean <smile>

Please don't try to interfere with the data base, you never know what can happen, it's safer to do a back-up before any trial.
I guess we'll all have to use Vbulletin as it comes.

PM me or Asher for any enquiry, don't publish any code... even if you know what you're doing, some other may use it wrong...

Thank you very much

duplicating a post

In a previous post Nicolas stated

Please don't try to interfere with the data base, you never know what can happen, it's safer to do a back-up before any trial.
I guess we'll all have to use Vbulletin as it comes.

PM me or Asher for any enquiry, don't publish any code... even if you know what you're doing, some other may use it wrong...

Thank you very much
__________________
Nicolas Claris
www.claris.fr - UPC
Reply With Quote

Click to expand...

Or even


In a previous post, Nicolas requested that we don't try to interfere with the data base, you never know what can happen, as it's safer to do a back-up before any trial.

both do the job for me.

Best wishes,

Ray

(you could add the url to the thread, whatever, but here its pretty obvious where it came from.)

Nicolas Claris said:

Please don't try to interfere with the data base, you never know what can happen, it's safer to do a back-up before any trial.
I guess we'll all have to use Vbulletin as it comes.

PM me or Asher for any enquiry, don't publish any code... even if you know what you're doing, some other may use it wrong...

Click to expand...

Nicolas,

There was nothing to worry about with that code unless there was a SQL injection bug in the parser. And to make such code viable one needs access to the database schema (table layout) and such pseudo code is very common in many forums. i.e.,

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/bugs36.php?do=view&bugid=119
http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?97,122708,122708#msg-122708
http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=443477&tstart=0
...

Using such code requires knowing the database schema and having command line or query tool access to the database maing a pseudo code snippet next to useless.

What you have done instead of removing a threat is removed an honest professional answer. Perhaps too professional but in no way remotely dangerous without the knowledge to make the syntax be correct and access to the database. The reality is that several tables probably need to be modified and the whole set of changes needs to be done in a transaction to ensure atomicity of the operations. I would want several hours if not a day to study the schema before attempting such a thing.

Moving on to the issue at hand.

Asher Kelman said:

I am very selective about which posts in a thread I move together, and check for coherehce and for gaps in logic. Still, I'd love to know how to duplicate an existing post! Sometimes it is needed in two places!

Click to expand...

Rather than moving posts to a new thread:

1. Copy the entire thread to a new thread. (What I have read suggests this worked in vBulletin 3 so hopefully it still exits.)
2. Rename the new copy of the thread.
3. Prune undesired posts from both threads.
4. Use the diminuative font sizes and/or colors on the unrelated portions of duplicate posts. (This step is for clarity not to get the job done.)
5. Post a pointer to the new thread in the old one.

This will allow you to have a copy of any post in either thread retaining continuity. I am unsure if this would be more work or less, but it is a vBulletin solution rather than a SQL solution.

enjoy,

Sean

What you have done instead of removing a threat is removed an honest professional answer. Perhaps too professional but in no way remotely dangerous without the knowledge to make the syntax be correct and access to the database. The reality is that several tables probably need to be modified and the whole set of changes needs to be done in a transaction to ensure atomicity of the operations. I would want several hours if not a day to study the schema before attempting such a thing.

Click to expand...

Sean
please accept my apologize if I did offend you, that was of course not my intention.
I would prefer that kind of dicussion being done trhu PM, not online, I don't want to spend hours online with NON pro (which obviously is not YOUR case) that would like to talk about SQL, there are fora for this matter as well.
As I make my living with photography (and derivated works) I don't have much time to devote to php/database etc, and therefore, as the fora do their work, I don't wish to spend more, provided that issues are not so "problematic".
I wish we talk about photography or more general mood, butnot php etc, we're not there to rewrite Vbulletin (which I didn't choose) which after all does not work that bad.

Thanks for reading me, and once more if you have any suggestion on VBulletin, please PM them to Asher or me, you're welcome.

Wow! See what happens when I go to see Jean Renoir's "Grand Illusion", all hell breaks loose and the French are practically at war!

Actually, the guys that mess with data bases maliciously spend all day doing it. It is frghtening so I undertand and even appreciate you guarding he fort so well! Sean, you might indeed have a great suggestion of duplicating the thread. I have not found it until now. I'll let you offer ideas to Nicolas by PM and that is really appreciated.

If you look at the thread started bu Guy Tal on "what does art mean to you" and I gather this is in the conteext of photographic art, we have got these long proofs from poetry! Now obviously the actual responses are being drwarfed. So I will have to do some surgery.

What Imight do is to copy a whole a post that is needed in both topics and then paste it in blue in the new thread so both the new and the daughter threads are whole and logical. I generally reread everything. It may look funny for you Ray, but I do take care that the sense and logic if present !! continues.

Otherwise, threads get constipated or suffocated, according to which is the woprse for you!

Asher