Does working with MF or LF make you feel different?

David A. Goldfarb said:

.........
If you have square objects at varying distances from the lens, then it's very difficult to get them all to look square at the same time by using PS perspective controls from a single image, so you have to combine images or select and correct different planes separately and keep all the edges clean and everything looking natural. It's much easier just to use front rise when shooting up at such a structure and get it right in the camera.

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Yep, correct!

As for resolution, a shifted 4/5 or 13 x 18 fits more than required for a A-3, 42 x 30 cm

Another concern is the light condition:

some shots will be done soon, to document todays's situation, but the building will be finished in highsummer; getting up early is not such a problem, but in these medieval cities, the courtjards are very small, therefore there's a big difference in light between the ground and the 5 tf floor.

Using digital would be a advantage, by enfusing or kind, to mix some bracket shots.
AFAIK, that would be much more difficult with films, even when using negs.

Michael Fontana said:

Jumping in again, with some questions:

A museum want me to documentate a reconstruction/extension of it, this ending up in a cataloge, about 80 shots, all, including 15 pages in size A-3.

As it will be finished in summer 2010, and the museum is in the old town, surrounded by rather small courtyards, the light conditions don't look very promising.

How big will be the improvement by using a MFback, instead of the 1 Ds-2, in these nasty light conditions? Still I can use my stitch set-up.

Nicolas?

Keep your finger crossed, it's a interesting project, and I'd like to shoot it...

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Hi Michael
not sure to understand correctly the questionning…
How high will the museum be?
will you be able to shoot from a high position or will you have to shoot from ground level?
what do you lean by "nasty light conditions"?
if you're talking about low light and shadows, I guess the Sinarback will give you more details and less noise and so smoother gradients, I have tried 16 seconds poses @ 100 ISO without any trouble, plus the fact that the Sinar file accepts more in depth PP than the 1DS2…
With a MF back, you'll have to stitch to, but you know how to do that!

What Asher said is a good alternative, you shoot the very wide image and then scan just the lower part and it would be the same as if you shifted the lens, there is so much resolution on a 8x10 that it would be as good.

I would love to see samples of 8x10 images with the 8x10 with the 110mm Super Symmar XL How big is this lens? probably massive, no?

I want to get a lens for my 8x10, so I'm interested in the topic...

Ben Rubinstein said:

Forgive me for being stupid but why does the first post look like it was taken from half way through another thread and if so how the heck am I supposed to read it?

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see post # 4 above…

leonardobarreto.com said:

I would love to see samples of 8x10 images with the 8x10 with the 110mm Super Symmar XL How big is this lens? probably massive, no?

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Not particularly. It's in a Copal 1 shutter (medium sized) and has a 67mm filter thread. You can download the specs from www.schneideroptics.com.

leonardobarreto.com said:

What Asher said is a good alternative, you shoot the very wide image and then scan just the lower part and it would be the same as if you shifted the lens, there is so much resolution on a 8x10 that it would be as good.

I would love to see samples of 8x10 images with the 8x10 with the 110mm Super Symmar XL How big is this lens? probably massive, no?

I want to get a lens for my 8x10, so I'm interested in the topic...

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Hi Leonardo,

I'm going to try to borrow one from the guy who is selling the central filter for the 150mm lens. He has the 110 Super Symmar XL too and I am wondering about it for internal architecture and to take pictures of my favorite building, the Walt Disney concert Hall! This is where I asked Chamonix importer Hugo Zhang to bring the LF guys for the Shootout!. The are a lot of 35mm shooters here who love the WDCH. This thread is a must to see the endless possibilities.

Asher

Leonardo, since you're in New York, and Asher, since you're in LA, you know you can probably rent a 110 SSXL, if you wanted to try it out. In New York you could try Calumet, Lens and Repro, or FotoCare.

It seems like it would be a good lens to rent, rather than to own, if the expense is a concern. I have a 120mm lens for 8x10" and a 55mm lens for 4x5" (which is the equivalent of 110mm on 8x10"), and while they're really useful or interesting sometimes, those times are relatively rare. For interiors, for instance, a 55mm on 4x5" usually makes the space look unnaturally large. I'm much more likely to use a 75mm lens for an interior.

Here's a 120mm shot on 8x10" that works for me. I've posted it on the LF forum before, so it's probably familiar to a few people who frequent that forum--



They've since put an outdoor restaurant in this space, which is a nice place to sit out and have something to eat on a summer day, but any photograph one tries to take here is bound to be cluttered.

I am thinking about something wide angular but not extreme and also compact plus inexpensive...

Schneider - Krueznach Angulon 210mm f 6.8

I told Asher on an email, but I will be based now --in a few weeks-- in a place called La Paz, Bolivia. My wife was appointed as the head of UN agencies there, so me and Roberto, my 6 year old son will be coming along.

So, I have the camera and will probably need a nice sort of wide angular light (there is a lack of oxygen in La Paz is at 4,000 meters or 157,480.31 inches above sea level)

The possibilities are more interesting there since I think I can rent a studio space -impossible here in NY- and will probably have one of the few P25 in the area, so I will go back to commercial photography.

The 8x10 could be interesting for the deserts, the Andes and other out-of-this world landscape. (I have the carbon tripod).

I got (not arrived yet) a GPS so I can post coordinates for where I take images in relation to Google Earth....

leonardobarreto.com said:

I am thinking about something wide angular but not extreme and also compact plus inexpensive...

Schneider - Krueznach Angulon 210mm f 6.8

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The 210mm Angulon fits those criteria, if you can find one. A similar option is the 8-1/4"/6.8 Dagor. I use a Gold Dot version, which covers 8x10" with some movements. It's hard to say which would be easier to find.

Other compact wide lenses that I use that cover the format are the older 168mm ser. iii Dagor and the 120mm/f:14 Berthiot Perigraphe. Neither was terribly expensive, but both are decent lenses. The Dagor only has four air-glass surfaces, so even uncoated ser. iii versions have good contrast.

Thanks for all the help!

Nicolas Claris said:

Hi Michael
not sure to understand correctly the questionning…
How high will the museum be?

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It'll have 5 floors and a liftet roof.

will you be able to shoot from a high position or will you have to shoot from ground level?
what do you lean by "nasty light conditions"?

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There have to be some ground level shots. Compared to the actual situation, they will dig one floor down, plus liften the roof: the only way to have more exhibition space by keeping the outside area identical as today....

As for the special roof construction, it best can be shot from some neighbour houses windows; but I still need to spot the best window:



This image illustrates the angled courtyart and its difficult light situation.

During the week-end, I took some test-shots; according to the architects rendering - at ground level - I stitched a 5-image-pano with a 28 mm on FF: the image angle is about 110 deg x 80 degs, so a 65 mm on 4/5' (= approx. equal to a 21 mm on a FF-DSLR) doesn't fit. But me, and the architects don't like the °language° of the ultra-ultra-wide. A ultrawide-effects is pronounced, as due to the °angled° or °layrinthine° courtyart-situation, a orthogonal view is not possible.

David already made that point: "I have a 120mm lens for 8x10" and a 55mm lens for 4x5" (which is the equivalent of 110mm on 8x10"), and while they're really useful or interesting sometimes, those times are relatively rare. For interiors, for instance, a 55mm on 4x5" usually makes the space look unnaturally large."

These UW work fine on orthogonal views, but once you' ve to leave that position, it becomes ugly.... the courtyart is - in terms of cam's place and therefore perspective - a interior, too.

if you're talking about low light and shadows, I guess the Sinarback will give you more details and less noise and so smoother gradients, I have tried 16 seconds poses @ 100 ISO without any trouble, plus the fact that the Sinar file accepts more in depth PP than the 1DS2…
With a MF back, you'll have to stitch to, but you know how to do that!

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Thanks for that information!

At the moment, I tend to stich with a wide, but not UW: no unnatural looking UW-effect, so avoiding the unnatural fore-/background relation.

Yep folks, great:

I got that job, it's well paid, and I've card blanche, so they trust in me.
After time and rethinking all, I decided to use my daily cam, the 1 Ds-2, use my distagons, add a Nikon 14- 24, and stitch on some occasions.

Off course, I' ll give the MFback, the museum owns, a test, and might use it, if positiv.
Running it on LF has become to complex, the lab, the scans, etc.

So, as I have carte blanche, I decided to do it in my way, which means using the tools, I work everyday with, I'm - at the moment - familiar with.

Still a good while since I moved from LF to DSLR.

Hi Michael

that is good news!

Kudos, and post what you can, when you can ;-)

Nicolas Claris said:

Hi Michael

that is good news!

Kudos, and post what you can, when you can ;-)

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Thanks Nicolas,

Yes, I really enjoy that job! It fits perfectly in my work area, architecture and art, so I'm glad I get it.

It's about a documentation of the new extension of the swiss museum of culture.

It'll start this autumn with some shots of the existing classizist building, then some shots of the transformation, ending in 2010 with images of the new museum, and leading to a book at the re-opening.

So this is a 2 years job all together? Fantastic news Michael, CONGRATULATIONS!

In 1915, when the museum began to deal with photographs systematically, it already contained 40 collections comprising some 1,900 photographs. Even then, photography was considered an «excellent medium to provide an insight into the culture represented». Today, the photo archives contain exceptional stocks of around 250,000 field research photos, about 48,000 of them historic shots taken before 1945. Apart from the main areas - Oceania, Africa and Indonesia - the collection also covers America, Australia, Asia/South-East Asia, the Polar peoples and Europe. Research trips are documented by a comprehensive series of publications. The archives are made available for study purposes.

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WHAT a brilliant place to add your dog tag Michael!

The Museum der Kulturen was founded in 1849 to provide a home for all the treasures brought to Basel from around the world by scientists, travellers and merchants. Since the beginning of the 20th century the collections have been supplemented by the museum's own expeditions. The exhibitions and a comprehensive programme of events communicate the museum's work to a wide audience. The body responsible for the museum is the canton of Basel-Stadt, on whose behalf the museum preserves, documents and communicates its cultural legacy. As the largest museum of its kind in Switzerland, the museum has around 300,000 objects and about the same number of historic photographs, including the stocks of the former Swiss Museum of Ethnology.

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Georg Baumann said:

So this is a 2 years job all together? Fantastic news Michael, CONGRATULATIONS!

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Thanks George,
yep, its 2 years, while the first 1 1/2 will not be a stress.

WHAT a brilliant place to add your dog tag Michael!

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your dog tag reminds me Thomas Pynchon, Vineland:

“Every dog has his day
and a good dog
just might have two days”

°grin°

For better understanding it, one should be aware, that Pynchon's dogs speak...