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Altering Posted Images

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Ray West said:
Nice to see you're getting around to my way of thinking -



I'm not sure about the necessity of the second line, whether the original copyright owner has automatic ownership of derivitives, etc. May well vary in differnt countries.

The matter came up in screenwriting groups where everyone reads and gives feed back, just like here. We has an instance of one person claiming that he now had part authorship! To exclude that, and allow the group to continue, we specifically agreed to eschew any such potential rights and donate any potential ownership back to the original author.

So, IMHOI, if someone suggests the image should be in B&W and provides the perfect unique version that wins a competition and gets huge sales, no claims could be made. It also clearly removes any excuses for reposting ewlsewhere any derived image by saying "It was equally my creation, since I made it succesful" .

This took a bunch of text to explain, but the implications are clear and legally or at least morally should apply everywhere.

I don't remember on RG discussions in depth about particular wedding, street, portrait, architecture or other photography. This is a small community and we must immediately remove concerns and provide clarity. Nicolas' feelings, and the concerns about EXIF and so forth are valid too.

The current draft is clear and concise.

"Unless otherwise specified, images posted for critique can be modified and reposted here as part of that critique.
Any such changes are hereby donated to the image's copyright in consideration for participation in this forum."

Please post any further ideas. I intend to add this to the top of the forums by the end of this month.

Asher
 

Ray West

New member
Asher,

There is probably no answer that fits all, I would still query why pick out those posted for critique, as opposed to other images. Maybe I'm missing the point, but if a photo is posted as an example, say, of what a waterfall looks like when taken at a particular shutter speed, (not for critique), at the moment it seems I'd have to seek permission of the original poster to reuse part of it, if I wish to compare it side by side with another. Or does this come under fair use/educational/parody or whatever. I believe even copyright lawyers admit its all a minefield, its a pity you even have to go there.

In truth, I think it unlikely that any of the active members here, most of them, who are photographers, who get either financial or other recognition for their art, are unlikely to transgress whatever you decide, or at least try not to. For the rest, they will do what they wish.

Not going too far off topic, but the recent microsoft 3d image thing - it worried me, concerning getting images from the www. - based on their past history re software installation/upgrades.

Best wishes,

Ray
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Ray, you make a good point, I have been thinking of placing this notice a number of times in OPF.

Perhaps a link from the words "Editing and Reposting warning" to every forum.

As long as the method is clear, simple and fair!

Asher
 
Asher Kelman said:
The current draft is clear and concise.

"Unless otherwise specified, images posted for critique can be modified and reposted here as part of that critique. Any such changes are hereby donated to the image's copyright in consideration for participation in this forum."

Please post any further ideas.

It works for me this way.
 

Mike Spinak

pro member
I'm a bit late; it looks like the discussion is mostly settled.

If anyone is interested in my opinion: I am largely in agreement with Sean. I also think that Sid's point is quite relevant.

For me, personally, I am entirely comfortable with having pictures I post dowloaded, modified, and reposted, within a thread, to illustrate a point. I don't really understand why people would be uptight about having others show their comments and criticism by means of illustration. It is hard for me to appreciate Nicolas's point of view about this, though I will respect his wishes, nonetheless.

I am not entirely comfortable with where and how my pictures might be reposted. I don't want people to just stick my picture publicly onto their website, and certainly don't want my picture to be posted anywhere in a manner where my authorship of the picture is not made clear, nor posted in manner where it is not made clear that the original picture has been modified. My personal choice would be to have the modified versions of the pictures only uploaded to an OPF server, but I recognize that there may be storage and/or bandwidth issues which Asher may (rightly) prefer not to incur.

And, of course: those who download my picture for such purposes must clearly understand and respect that permission to download for criticism in an OPF thread does not constitute permission for any other uses; those who modify and repost a picture must clearly understand that tweaking my picture does not entitle them to rights of joint authorship.

Unless otherwise specified, images posted for critique can be modified and reposted here as part of that critique. Any such changes are hereby donated to the image's copyright in consideration for participation in this forum."

Sounds good.

Mike

www.mikespinak.com
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thanks for bringing this up Mike.

First it is absolutely wrong for anyone to post these pcitures on their own websites for public view. I need to discuss with Nicolas when he retunes band width and storage required for OPF to host them. I could do some checking too.

One way would be to email the versions back to the owner of the image to repost. That adds a delay, but could work.

I'm just thinking what can be done, not yet would should be done. I like the idea that the image owner has all the versions under his/her control and everything becomes very clear.

Any simpler ideas, let us know!

Asher
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Since we have active threads on retouching and critique, we need to have uniform approach to protecting photographers files.

Please accept these working rules as representing the backbone of current discussion"

1.Unless otherwise specified, images posted for critique can be modified and reposted here as part of that critique.

2.Any such changes are hereby donated to the image's copyright in consideration for participation in this forum."

and further, without exception,

3. All reposted images should bear © "Xxxxx Yyyy", the original photographer.

This matter can be further discussed here.

However, for now, the above 3 rules will be strictly enforced.

Thanks,

Asher
 
I am in total agee ment with ,Mr.Kelman as to the rules of foto critique and foto manipulation of said fotos:

This may be more work than its worth!, at time of posting the poster should be allowed to check a box that says he would like to have his foto critiqued and altered but with full explaination of the alterations and how they were done?

Along with that a note should be made that alterations to said foto should be kept in line with the foto as it is presented!

I hope I ve been clear here:
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Lauren,

We thought of a check off box, but we didn't want to alter the templates of the database just yet! We have to date a robust environment. People do need to say why the picture is there and how it was made!

Main thing for us when we see that picture is to say what one feels and thinks and don't go beyond that without care to know what one is talking about. This should not inhibit just channel ones efforts!

Asher
 
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