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From Bach to Baumann and beyond: the synthesizers. Where does this lead us?
- Thread starter Klaus Esser
- Start date
Alain Briot
pro member
Thank you.
Interesting history, the moog company http://moogarchives.com/
I remember when the UK 'pop' groups started using them, then they faded in popularity, as the original ones were monophonic, and better polyphonic units were available from elsewhere. (Also, although it looked impressive, the original moog synth was not designed for live performances). It seems that Bob Moog was unable to quickly adapt to the microprocessor age, a number of electronic engineers were unable to do that, and the company closed down in 1993, some 22 years after he had originally sold the company, and 15 years after he left it. (He acquired the name 'Moog Music' again, relatively recently.)
Interestingly, he seems to have continued making the theremin, a rather unusual instrument that Bill Bailey (see one of my previous postings) is quite familiar with. I would expect the theremin to be always based on analogue techniques.
and then, there was the ' bbc radiophonic workshop' ...
If you are pc based, and you want to find out about the effect of different tunings, wave shaping, etc., by means of practical experimentation, then Peter Frazer's site is interesting. There are also some well researched pdf texts on the origins of why much of what we hear today is not the way it was originally heard.
http://www.midicode.com/tunings/index.shtml
Best wishes,
Ray
I remember when the UK 'pop' groups started using them, then they faded in popularity, as the original ones were monophonic, and better polyphonic units were available from elsewhere. (Also, although it looked impressive, the original moog synth was not designed for live performances). It seems that Bob Moog was unable to quickly adapt to the microprocessor age, a number of electronic engineers were unable to do that, and the company closed down in 1993, some 22 years after he had originally sold the company, and 15 years after he left it. (He acquired the name 'Moog Music' again, relatively recently.)
Interestingly, he seems to have continued making the theremin, a rather unusual instrument that Bill Bailey (see one of my previous postings) is quite familiar with. I would expect the theremin to be always based on analogue techniques.
and then, there was the ' bbc radiophonic workshop' ...
If you are pc based, and you want to find out about the effect of different tunings, wave shaping, etc., by means of practical experimentation, then Peter Frazer's site is interesting. There are also some well researched pdf texts on the origins of why much of what we hear today is not the way it was originally heard.
http://www.midicode.com/tunings/index.shtml
Best wishes,
Ray
Klaus Esser
pro member
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
Yeah! I have that one here, it's brilliant.... a classic in deed.
Why anyone these days would like to buy a monophonic performance synth like the voyager for this kind of money other than for nostalgic or possible longterm speculative collectors purposes is beyond my comprehension.
A year ago or so, I composed some music for Alain and Natalie, specifically towards some of Alain's pictures.
For example this one which is by far my personal favourite of all his prints of the month existing:
http://www.beautiful-landscape.com/Print-of-the-month-20.html
Alain:
....to my perception this picture has:
....ancient....alien....female....cosmos....mystic....ritual....wisdom....peace.... <grins> to name a few.
Hence I called it Celestial Sunrise as well. (2.5 MB ~ish)-->
http://www.mediafire.com/?e3d3jyyzzlh
I will never be able to see a photograph without hearing spontaneously music.
Btw. I have no idea what you thought about this music Alain, somehow you must have been to busy at this time I guess.
P.S. Would love to know what you folks think of this approach, the combination of the music and this picture I mean
Last edited:
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
<grins>You can't hear music without seeing pictures, I can't see pictures without hearing music, we should work together.
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
Well yeah, true on a very basic level, but there is more to it, you dont want Alain to start looking up sysex commands and writing script stuff to make the knobs work where they are supposed to work.
Really, the Voyager is not meant to be a control keyboard for all those fine plugins that are out there.
This is more something for that purpose Alain, can get it 25, 37 and 61 keys versions, imho the best you can get at the moment as it automatically maps functions to the sliders and knobs, depending on what plugin you use, really clever:
Here a link to a recent review by macmusic.
http://www.macmusic.org/articles/view.php/lang/en/id/112/
Josh Liechty
New member
You could use a Kurzweil K2600X to control software instruments, also. I play some sounds from my K2600X and others from the computer; some musicians take this to an extreme and have one master keyboard which controls racks full of modules (basically, the electronic insides of other keyboards, without keys) and perhaps a computer or two, all with MIDI. Of course, a keyboard such as this Kurzweil is getting dangerously close to the Korg Oasys in cost, so it's not terribly practical if all you're controlling are software instruments. However, I just can't stand to play anything without weighted keys, so 61 key or smaller controllers don't work for me, even for softsynths.
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
I was one of those <grins> I used to have a Kurzweil PC88 and controlled a phletora of yammys, rolands, oberheims and korgs , using midi routers. These were the times! Hehehe.
I also need 88, my favourite, which I don't have, is the Promega 3, best I've ever came across in terms of feeling.
I also need 88, my favourite, which I don't have, is the Promega 3, best I've ever came across in terms of feeling.
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
Alain, I was looking for another example to show you how much more flexible you are with software these days.
All moogs:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7zydgqnuwqg
Klaus, a more complete one, moogs, and a handfull of other plugins, ACROCORINTH, I made that for a good friend in greece when his daughter was born. For internet sake it is more squeezed in filesize, the original CD sounds much more, well "fat" I guess, but thats what you get with 64 bit.
http://www.mediafire.com/?00j55midxw0
Free Koelsch if you find the Joh. Seb. Bach quote. <grins>
All moogs:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7zydgqnuwqg
Klaus, a more complete one, moogs, and a handfull of other plugins, ACROCORINTH, I made that for a good friend in greece when his daughter was born. For internet sake it is more squeezed in filesize, the original CD sounds much more, well "fat" I guess, but thats what you get with 64 bit.
http://www.mediafire.com/?00j55midxw0
Free Koelsch if you find the Joh. Seb. Bach quote. <grins>
Alain Briot
pro member
It's a nice conversation piece ;-)
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
Good One!
Klaus Esser
pro member
Right - i thought about it less as a master but simply as a trigger for some instruments in GarageBand.
Looks like a nice gadged, your link! That´s of course a bit more sophisticated . .
Without a need for masterfunctions, a friend of mine has this 99$ keyboard from the Apple store. Nice toy to make just music with GB!
I tried the moog from Arturia last night - GOOD!
best, Klaus
Klaus Esser
pro member
He, heh . . - took me 20sec: around 2:36
followed by Ravel . . . than i had to brake up for a phonecall but will go on . . This Bach, Ravel mixed to arabic tunes - not bad!
cu, Klaus
P.S.: Bach again 3:22, one pop-tune between at 4:36, Bach at 4:51 and some other seconds
. . btw. nice B3 sound!Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
Hey Klaus,
I used to play with/on the real moogs in the past a lot, I can say from my experience that the Arturia VST's give you a very close approximation of the real thing, very close in deed. Of course, there is a difference, but it is somewhat marginal and just a matter of time to achieve the very same "quality" as the originals, and most important even get better than the hardware in deed!
It is a simple logic, with increasing flops and cpu cycles power, the proprietary "hardware only" will be surpassed sooner than later. The Oasys from Korg is a good example of a innovative manufacturer seeing this trend already. The "O" is basically a computer with a linux layer and musical gui and functions. The first that has to be taken very serious in deed!
Simple logic also because development and manufacturing costs are much lower on the investment site of the balance account.
Check out the sonic capabilities and "analog power" of this baby for example:
http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?id=massive_us&ftu=ea0145683c43d15
This is like a little glimpse of the future to me, and we will see more down this road soon, no doubt.
Or take the "mother of all workstations" the Korg Wavestation as another example, now it exists as a VST plugin, without aliasing and many more advantages in deed.
For musicians it is the best time ever, and much more good things to come, we never had it that good and the sonic potential on offer is gigantic.
I find it astonishing that compared with the 60s, 70s and 80s, what the industry produces is a load of shite, but my explanation is simple, it has to do with the transition of the entire industry. Napster for example stirred up serious ****, and in these days we are in the hands of some marketing yuppies that live for the quick kill only, artists are becoming a rare breed in this industry, and "Karaokee Punk", "Pop Idol Idiots" is what the Mob loves to see and what sells quick, and is forgotten as quick as it came.
A reflection of the times we live in, I think!
I used to play with/on the real moogs in the past a lot, I can say from my experience that the Arturia VST's give you a very close approximation of the real thing, very close in deed. Of course, there is a difference, but it is somewhat marginal and just a matter of time to achieve the very same "quality" as the originals, and most important even get better than the hardware in deed!
It is a simple logic, with increasing flops and cpu cycles power, the proprietary "hardware only" will be surpassed sooner than later. The Oasys from Korg is a good example of a innovative manufacturer seeing this trend already. The "O" is basically a computer with a linux layer and musical gui and functions. The first that has to be taken very serious in deed!
Simple logic also because development and manufacturing costs are much lower on the investment site of the balance account.
Check out the sonic capabilities and "analog power" of this baby for example:
http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?id=massive_us&ftu=ea0145683c43d15
This is like a little glimpse of the future to me, and we will see more down this road soon, no doubt.
Or take the "mother of all workstations" the Korg Wavestation as another example, now it exists as a VST plugin, without aliasing and many more advantages in deed.
For musicians it is the best time ever, and much more good things to come, we never had it that good and the sonic potential on offer is gigantic.
I find it astonishing that compared with the 60s, 70s and 80s, what the industry produces is a load of shite, but my explanation is simple, it has to do with the transition of the entire industry. Napster for example stirred up serious ****, and in these days we are in the hands of some marketing yuppies that live for the quick kill only, artists are becoming a rare breed in this industry, and "Karaokee Punk", "Pop Idol Idiots" is what the Mob loves to see and what sells quick, and is forgotten as quick as it came.
A reflection of the times we live in, I think!
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
He, heh . . - took me 20sec: around 2:36
This Bach, Ravel mixed to arabic tunes - not bad!
cu, Klaus
P.S.: Bach again 3:22, one pop-tune between at 4:36, Bach at 4:51 and some other seconds
Excellent! <smiles> I knew you would find it right away, I was just looking for an excuse to have a beer with you!
Klaus Esser
pro member
Bear -
i agree fully. When recorded, there´s no difference. I had this back in the 80s with a Korg Hammond clone. Nearly perfect - with Leslie and all.
Now it´s all in plugs and more and more perfect.
But there really is a difference between "life" and on recordings. Even the best B3 software can´t match the feeling standing beside a tube-leslie . . . ;-)
But in a recording you can´t tell one from the other.
best, Klaus
Klaus Esser
pro member
what was the phrase at 4:36 - i know it but seem to have a bit Alzheimer here . . ;-)beer - anytime! But Koelsch . . . ?
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
btw. here is an example without software, all proprietary hardware, two keybaords, Roland XV88 and Korg KARMA, a 5 minute improvisation with the goal to simulate a "Jaco Pastorious" style, is about three years old I think. The fretless is the roland played with right hand, the rest is the korg workstation programmed and played left hand.
Jaco-Tour-De-Force (3.5MB ~ish):
http://www.mediafire.com/?anw5v4zvnji
Jaco-Tour-De-Force (3.5MB ~ish):
http://www.mediafire.com/?anw5v4zvnji
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
beer - anytime! But Koelsch . . . ?
nothing really, just noodling, I think the Bach quote comes most cleary from 4:50 -4:55, I remember when I send this to Panagiotis, he was really really pleased, this is the kinda stuff they liked to dance to. Funny. <smiles> His daughter will turn into a real aphrodites one day, no doubt.
P.S.
Of course Koelsch, is said BEER! <grins>
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
Yeppers, it is funny there seem to be two fractions, the pragmatists, and the purists, the latter suggest to do the summing not ITB but with outboard, and while there are distinctions naturally, I think the level such as Magix Sequioa, hence Samplitude provides really does not require analog summing anymore. Btw. to my ears Samplitude always had the egde over Nuendo and it is not such a crap company like Steinberg. <grins>
Klaus Esser
pro member
Well - the TONE is Jaco´s fretless Fender bass. But the ATTACK (das Einschwingen) isn´t!
That´s the old problem: attack and sustain - take the famous Bach-trumpet in "Penny Lane" (it really WAS a trumpet and NOT a Mellotrone as i learned) - this one ignited lots of trumpet-samples from both being recorded life and really arificial: it´s the attack, where naturality lacks. Once "eingeschwungen", the tone itself is great with newer software.
But with guitars, basses and some other percussive instruments the attack is still a problem. Mostly it´s too "clean", too . . "gleichförmig". Real plucking a bass - a fretless especially - with fingers or plectrum is different in every plucking even the same note.
later more . .
interesting theme again!Michael Fontana
pro member
You' re having good fun!
If you continue, I might need to get one of these "optical output-to stereo"-cable's.
So hang on!
cheers, Michael
If you continue, I might need to get one of these "optical output-to stereo"-cable's.
So hang on!
cheers, Michael
Klaus Esser
pro member
Michael Fontana
pro member
Yeah, and I got Knee Plays from Byrne, which never appeared on CD, good sounds, too.
Did ya ever hear Byrne singing the Kraftwerk's "Modell" on the Balanescu Quartett's strings?
Did ya ever hear Byrne singing the Kraftwerk's "Modell" on the Balanescu Quartett's strings?
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
Correct, that is why I do not use the XV Sounds anymore, puls code modulation does have severe limitations.
I much prefer:
http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/trilogy.html