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Yaw, pitch, and roll

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
For a while, in an effort to be "scientifically rigorous", I have used the terms yaw, pitch and roll to refer to the three rotation movements of a typical tripod head and to the axes about which those movements take place. (Most commonly, in photographic practice, these are called "pan", "tilt", and something else - maybe "horizon level", maybe "landscape/portrait".)

Recently, I reported that I had a change of heart in that regard. Formally, the yaw, pitch, and roll axes are defined in a frame of reference locked to the object whose rotation is being described (in our case, the camera), and thus did not properly apply to axes defined in another frame of reference (such as the ground, or the tripod itself). Thus the axis we often call "tilt", because it does not have a fixed orientation with respect to the camera is not properly called the pitch axis, nor is the axis we often call "pan" properly called the yaw axis.

Rigorously, the pitch axis always runs from one side of the camera to the other, parallel to its "baseplate"; the the yaw axis always runs from the bottom of the camera to its top; the roll axis runs fore-and-aft, parallel to the normal optical axis of the camera. Only the roll axis is a movement axis of a conventional camera tripod head (and then only if we mount the camera as "suggested" by the manufacturer).​

Thus, I reported, I would henceforth call the movements of the typical tripod head (and the associated axes) azimuth, elevation, and roll.

Further study shows that the situation is not that simple, and I now have a new outlook.

******

I won't torture you here with a detailed technical discussion. The bottom line, though, is this:

• The three angles we set with the three movements of a typical tripod head can be properly called the yaw angle, pitch angle, and roll angle, which describe the "angular attitude" of the camera.

• However, the axes about which change in yaw angle and pitch angle occur are not properly described as the yaw and pitch axes of "the system". [Yes, that sounds curious, but see the indented paragraph above.]

With all that in mind, I now have no problem in our speaking of the three movements of the typical camera tripod as the yaw, pitch, and roll movements.

And I think that, so long as we are clearly speaking of the tripod head itself, to describe the axes of these movements as the yaw, pitch, and roll axes of the head is a reasonable, and practical, departure from technical rigor.

Those who would like to look into the theory of all this may wish to consult the useful Wikipedia article, here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaw,_pitch_and_roll#Aircraft_attitude
 

Andrew Stannard

pro member
Hi Doug,

Of course if you decide to describe the movement of your tripod head mathematically, then even with your now clear definitions of yaw, pitch and roll movements you may run into he issue of gimbal lock, a common issue in engineering: Gimbal Lock

Perhaps you would be safer still to describe your tripod movements using quaternions, which would provide a mathematically secure solution to the whole issue.

;-)
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Andrew,
Of course if you decide to describe the movement of your tripod head mathematically, then even with your now clear definitions of yaw, pitch and roll movements you may run into he issue of gimbal lock, a common issue in engineering: Gimbal Lock

Yes. In the case of, for example, the Manfrotto 410 head (with the "normal" camera mounting), we approach gimbal lock when we aspire to shoot near the nadir (or zenith).

In fact, one reason to use the "rotated" camera mounting is to avoid gimbal lock when planning to shoot near the nadir/zenith.

Perhaps you would be safer still to describe your tripod movements using quaternions, which would provide a mathematically secure solution to the whole issue.
In fact, I have just started a paper on yaw/pitch/roll, Euler's angles, Tait-Bryan angles, and so forth. In the course of my study, I ran into mention of quaternions, but shied away from that! But you have inspired me to delve into it.

Readers may thus come to curse us both!

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Nill Toulme

New member
Huh. Wonder if those guys have ever seen and priced the Manfrotto heads. They might feel a little silly (sillier) if so.

Nill
 
Huh. Wonder if those guys have ever seen and priced the Manfrotto heads. They might feel a little silly (sillier) if so.

Hi Nill,

While I do agree that the pricing is excessive given the alternatives, they are just selling at prices that the (aspiring) elite photographers are willing to pay. Part of the price is of course driven by low volume, and by relatively high cost in designing and production (lots of manual work to assemble it, and lots of parts to machine).

It no doubt is a nice piece of gear, and an excellent piece of engineering, but at that price level I'm not replacing the alternatives I already have.

Cheers,
Bart
 
I have the 'Photo Clam' version of this head. bought it off e-bay for a good price. It is pretty cool even with the name. Photo Clam... really?? It comes with a little bag made from a real Nauga..
"My chair is upholstered in real Naugahyde / When they killed that nauga, I sat down and cried!" Allan Sherman Actually Naugas shed their skin so you don't need to kill them. :)
It is an interesting piece of machinery. and works quite well.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Duke,

I have the 'Photo Clam' version of this head. bought it off e-bay for a good price. It is pretty cool even with the name. Photo Clam... really??

Cool beans.

L1_D0030_Multiflex.jpg

I see now that these things have a "yaw" axis movement on the bottom and on the top.

And of course the Jaws of Life on the top.

There is a great animation here:

http://www.tripodballhead.com/2009/02/photo-clam-multiflex-geared-head_23.html

Do nauga shed at a particular season?

Yes, we are having fun now.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Duke,

I have the 'Photo Clam' version of this head. bought it off e-bay for a good price. It is pretty cool even with the name. Photo Clam.
On your Photo Clam Multiflex head, what is the little white edge wheel just above the top pivot arc (with the "+" and "-" on it)?

You can see it here:

L1_D0030_Multiflex.jpg

My guess is adjustable friction on the top tilt movement.

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug
 
yes, friction adjustments......... There is one for the other axis also.. around the back that you can't see in this picture..........
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Duke,

yes, friction adjustments......... There is one for the other axis also.. around the back that you can't see in this picture..........
Ah, yes, I remember now - I saw it here:

photoclam_multiflexhead_detail05.jpg

and also in their fabulous animation!

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug
 
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