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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

What new lens envy do you have?

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
This is my choice after the 70-200 2.8L IS II,

Canon-EF-85mm-Camera-Lens.jpg



PDN: Canon 85mm 1.2L $1859 at B&H


ef85_12liiu_c_186x279.gif



Canon USA: 85mm 1.2L​


When I first read the announcement I thought, for sure this is going to be IS, since, at f1.2, the DOF is very narrow. Well, I am flabbergasted that this prime lens has not had image stabilization added to it. Perhaps, Canon engineers consider that the lens is going to be used mostly in a studio with strobes and so the shot is at a fast speed and IS is not needed. However, I am disappointed!

Maybe the earthquake cut short the plans to fully update this favorite.

85-mtf.jpg
tele_ef85mm.jpg


MTF Charts Canon 1.2 L Original Lens left and Version II, 2012, right


With an almost doubling of the AF speed, (X 1.8 v. the original 85 mm 1.2 L), and added new "Super Spectra" coating to prevent flare and ghosting, this lens is still likely to be very popular. Not much information on any improvements in the optics as yet.

I'd love the lens! now what to sell?


Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
When I first read the announcement I thought, for sure this is going to be IS, since, at f1.2, the DOF is very narrow. Well, I am flabbergasted that this prime lens has not had image stabilization added to it. Perhaps, Canon engineers consider that the lens is going to be used mostly in a studio with strobes and so the shot is at a fast speed and IS is not needed.


That is not the reason. If you check what lenses have optical stabilization, you will notice that no lens faster than f/2.8 has it and for f/2.8 lenses they are either long focal length or cropped frame lenses. For example, there is not 24-70 f/2.8 zoom with IS either and you can be sure that there is an ample supply of customers for such a lens.

The obvious alternative is of course sensor-based stabilization, available on other brands.

As to the 85 f/1.2, there is little doubt that it is an optical tour de force and, as such, very desirable as an object. There is also little doubt that for most photographic uses, the 85 f/1.8 will give quite similar results. The f/1.2 is heavy, the AF is very slow and depth of field is so small that focus accuracy is a constant problem. On digital sensors, there is also the issue that the sensor itself may limit the aperture. But for a buyer appreciative of the technology, it is undoubtedly an object to lust for.

As to the lens envies I have myself, they mostly concern lenses which are not available. I would love to see a 20mm f/1.4 in my mount of choice (only Leica has a 21mm f/1.4). I would really like the Minolta STF to be issued as a 85mm or 50mm. I would love a 14-24 f/2.8 in my mount of choice (only Nikon has one) or even a 12-24 f/2.8 (the Sigma 12-24 is only really usable from f/8 onwards) or a 12mm f/2.8 prime. I would also love to see Leica issue the line of primes they developed for the Leica S in a version for 35mm cameras (incredible lenses, the MTFs are jaw dropping good and bokeh is superb).
 

Michael Nagel

Well-known member
Well, there is no particular lens I am looking for in terms of image quality, but more for being optically good and not intrusive. There is that nice 40mm/2.8 pancake for my mount and I think of adding the almost as small, but optically good 70/2.4...

For me, lens quality is something desirable, but in most cases for me, the problem is behind the viewfinder, so I start working on this first...

Best regards,
Michael
 

Bob Latham

New member
That is not the reason. If you check what lenses have optical stabilization, you will notice that no lens faster than f/2.8 has it .......
You're not lusting hard enough Jerome.....there's a very tasty 200/2 with IS

My personal missing link is the TS-E17/4....then I'm done (until they make something else suitably appealing)

Bob
 
Nikkor 15mm f3.5 ais
Nikkor 50mm f1.2 ais
Nikkor 135mm f2 ais
Nikkor 200mm f2 ais
Nikkor 300mm f3.5 ais
Sigma 400mm f5.6 apo tele macro


And a d700 to throw em on....
 

Bob Latham

New member
.....On digital sensors, there is also the issue that the sensor itself may limit the aperture.....
This appears to be the case for both the 85/1.2 and the 50/1.2. If you put the lens onto the body without rotating it and meter the shot and then rotate the lens to engage it, the shutter speed increases by 1/3 stop. My assumption is that the body recognises the f/1.2 and invisibly ups the Iso by 1/3 stop.

Bob
 
This appears to be the case for both the 85/1.2 and the 50/1.2. If you put the lens onto the body without rotating it and meter the shot and then rotate the lens to engage it, the shutter speed increases by 1/3 stop. My assumption is that the body recognises the f/1.2 and invisibly ups the Iso by 1/3 stop.

Hi Bob,

There are two things happening. First there is a potential sensel tunneling effect which apparently is automatically compensated for by increasing the Gain on some camera models when the aperture gets wider than approx. f/2.8 . I have verified it to be the case on my 1Ds3. There has been a significant amount of discussion on the Luminous Landscape forum about that subject. That will not lead to a longer exposure time but to an invisibly increased bump in ISO, and potential overexposure (saturation) risk.

Secondly, and I've seen it on my 1Ds3, there is some shading in the mirror box by the mirror (in the up position) itself, for the two widest aperture settings. The latter could result in an increase in exposure suggested by the eposure meter, and visibly non-circular OOF specular highlights. In addition the corners will be darker due to vignetting and light fall-off. which may also lead to longer exposure time measurements as a result of the darker image. The chosen metering mode makes a difference.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Bob Latham

New member
Bart,
The highlight clipping is annoying and not least because I've never managed to explain to myself why it's the top and not the bottom that gets clipped.
I'm struggling with the metering issue as you describe it....a 100% viewfinder must have a 100% mirror to direct the light to the metering sensor.

Apologies to Asher from deviating the thread away from his "lust"

Bob
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bob,

This appears to be the case for both the 85/1.2 and the 50/1.2. If you put the lens onto the body without rotating it and meter the shot and then rotate the lens to engage it, the shutter speed increases by 1/3 stop. My assumption is that the body recognises the f/1.2 and invisibly ups the Iso by 1/3 stop.
More likley (and this is probably what you mean), the system changes the exposure index ("what the camera tells the metering system the ISO sensitivity is"), rather than actually changing the ISO sensitivity of the sensor system. That is, this is a ploy that is entirely in the metering.

An example is that, on a free standing exposure mete, of the "dial calculator" type, if we move the "ISO" dial from 200 to 400, we are not changing any ISO sensitivity (after all, the film or camera doesn't know we turned the meter dial). Rather, we are changing what we tell the meter is the ISO sensitivity of the camera. (That value is the exposure index.)

This is one of the problems with our often saying just "ISO" (which of course is merely the designation of an international standards organization).

Another problem is saying "increases the shutter speed by 1/3 stop". Does that mean "increases the exposure time by 1/3 stop" or does it mean "decreases the exposure time by 1/3 stop". (After all, 1/640 sec is "faster" than 1/500 sec).

Best regards,

Doug
 

Bob Latham

New member
Another problem is saying "increases the shutter speed by 1/3 stop". Does that mean "increases the exposure time by 1/3 stop" or does it mean "decreases the exposure time by 1/3 stop". (After all, 1/640 sec is "faster" than 1/500 sec).
Doug,

I use the term "increase" to imply faster (or a shorter duration)....ie, the body would choose 1/160 with the lens disengaged but increase to 1/200 when it identifies the lens.

Bob
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bob,

I use the term "increase" to imply faster (or a shorter duration)....ie, the body would choose 1/160 with the lens disengaged but increase to 1/200 when it identifies the lens.
Yes, that is quite accurate when speaking of shutter "speed".

On the other hand, the number we usually mention (e.g, 1/60 s) is not a measure of "speed"!

I guess a unit of speed would be the inverse second (s^-1). So for an exposure time of 1/60 s, the speed quantitatively would be 60 s^-1.

In any case, in technical discussions, I (almost) always speak of "exposure time" so there is less chance of ambiguity.

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug
 

CD Holden

New member
blah blah blah... less science and more lens porn!

How about that Nikon 135/2 DC?
I don't shoot much 35mm these days, but looking into eventually getting a digital camera, this lens is definitely on my radar.
I like the selective defocus control. I'd like it even more if I had a chance to test it.
 
Bart,
The highlight clipping is annoying and not least because I've never managed to explain to myself why it's the top and not the bottom that gets clipped.
I'm struggling with the metering issue as you describe it....a 100% viewfinder must have a 100% mirror to direct the light to the metering sensor.

Hi Bob,

The issue is that when the mirror is in the up-position, to allow exposure when the shutter curtains open, it still blocks some of the lightcone from the exit pupil of the lens to the sensor. So instead of a circular OOF highlight, the disc is clipped a bit.

Apologies to Asher from deviating the thread away from his "lust"

As for me, I'm not one to lust for objects, but I do have some lenses I'd like to try or upgrade to. I'd like to compare the performance of the new zoom Fisheye lens against my 15mm one. The TS/E-17mm looks tempting, based on my experience with the TS/E-24mm. A newer design TS/E 45mm might be useful (imagine the lack of CA it could have compared tot the current one, coupled with resolution and adjustments).

A more modern version of the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L zoom lens (which is by no means a slouch) would be interesting, and possibly make an upgrade worthwhile, especially if it had Image Stabilization.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
50L. Not that I can begin to afford one. The 85L is a very special lens but at present I've fallen in love with the 50mm focal length after years of defaulting to the 85mm.
 

Mike Shimwell

New member
50L. Not that I can begin to afford one. The 85L is a very special lens but at present I've fallen in love with the 50mm focal length after years of defaulting to the 85mm.

I know where there's one (relatively) cheap - and can even be attached to a very nice secondhand 1Ds3. I've resisted:)
 

Mike Shimwell

New member
Nothing special for me, Nikkor 70 - 200 mm and 200 - 400 mm. Though the second one is costly none the less!

Helene (sorry, I don't know how to accent your 'e's)

When I think back to the early Vivitar 28-85 zoom I bought in the mid (19)80s, I have to say that I think the plain workaday zooms you suggest are nothing special are in fact only a little short of miraculous. Technology that is close to passing the 'magic' test.

Mike
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I know where there's one (relatively) cheap - and can even be attached to a very nice secondhand 1Ds3. I've resisted:)

Mike,

Likely as not, "relatively cheap" in the U.K. is going to be more than the cost of the new lens here in the States. I think that the MF Pentax lenses are going to be less expensive the UK as who wants them, but there are stellar and can be used for the Eos with an inexpensive adapter.

Asher
 

Helene Anderson

New member
Helene (sorry, I don't know how to accent your 'e's)

When I think back to the early Vivitar 28-85 zoom I bought in the mid (19)80s, I have to say that I think the plain workaday zooms you suggest are nothing special are in fact only a little short of miraculous. Technology that is close to passing the 'magic' test.

Mike

Don't worry about the ' and the ` .

Simple in comparison to what many people envy really, macro and other attributes. My main interest is sport so my needs, my desires are tailored towards that. As long as I can shoot sport I'm happy !
 

Andrew Stannard

pro member
I am beginning to lust after a 24mm tilt Shift lens for my landscape work. Is a lot of outlay though and not something I can justify at the moment!
 

Bob Latham

New member
I am beginning to lust after a 24mm tilt Shift lens for my landscape work. Is a lot of outlay though and not something I can justify at the moment!
Having just looked through your "Lancashire" gallery and started on the "Peak District" gallery, Andrew, I think that the TS-E24 MkII needs very little justification . Pop it on your 5DMkII and your creative possibilities will multiply no end.

Bob
 

Andrew Stannard

pro member
Having just looked through your "Lancashire" gallery and started on the "Peak District" gallery, Andrew, I think that the TS-E24 MkII needs very little justification . Pop it on your 5DMkII and your creative possibilities will multiply no end.

Bob

Thanks Bob - very kind and glad you enjoyed looking through the photos. I think perhaps I need you to have a chat with my bank manager and my wife :)

Andrew.
 
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