Nigel Morton
New member
I was at Fornby point when I noticed this Red Fox.
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Red Fox
- Thread starter Nigel Morton
- Start date
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Nigel,
I guess that is in a zoo!
Where is it? I wonder what is happening to the fox and chicken population now that the men on horses and the trumpets and barking dogs no longer hound the things to ground!
Beautiful animal. I like the last picture the most since it seems more natural in its stance despite the railings behind. I wonder if theirs chicken wire there or else what's the point?
With my lack of absolutism, I might ponder replacing the b.g. with something less unnatural, but then. perhaps that would take away from the whole point of your picture.
Would it?
Asher
I guess that is in a zoo!
Where is it? I wonder what is happening to the fox and chicken population now that the men on horses and the trumpets and barking dogs no longer hound the things to ground!
Beautiful animal. I like the last picture the most since it seems more natural in its stance despite the railings behind. I wonder if theirs chicken wire there or else what's the point?
With my lack of absolutism, I might ponder replacing the b.g. with something less unnatural, but then. perhaps that would take away from the whole point of your picture.
Would it?
Asher
Nigel Morton
New member
Thanks Asher for looking at these and for your comments. The location where I found this Fox is Fornby Point near Liverpool. It is actually a Red Squirrel and Nature preserve. The area is totally open and there is only the odd wooden fence as can just be seen in the last shot. All of the animals are free to roam wherever they want.
The few fences that are there are just to mark areas out for us humans. and to mark out different routes for walking.
There are 2 reasons why I have not changed the background the first is that I do not yet have the expertise to do this and secondly I wanted to keep it to give an idea of the surroundings the fox was in. I wanted to keep a fairly shallow dof as not to detract to much from the Fox. Perhaps I should have used a deeper dof.
Nige
The few fences that are there are just to mark areas out for us humans. and to mark out different routes for walking.
There are 2 reasons why I have not changed the background the first is that I do not yet have the expertise to do this and secondly I wanted to keep it to give an idea of the surroundings the fox was in. I wanted to keep a fairly shallow dof as not to detract to much from the Fox. Perhaps I should have used a deeper dof.
Nige
Nigel Morton
New member
Hi Ray,
Thanks for looking at these shots and for taking the time to comment.
I was at distances ranging from around 15 feet to about 40 feet or so away from the Fox.
The Fox was a little timid but seemed to be quite happy with people being around as long as you did not try to get too close. As this is a busy nature preserve the fox probably knows that it will get tast tit bits from the visitors.
The Lense I was using was a Sigma 70-300mm fitted to my Canon 350D. My camera was on a tripod but I did not use a remote shutter release as I wanted to get these shots before it wandered off.
Nige
Thanks for looking at these shots and for taking the time to comment.
I was at distances ranging from around 15 feet to about 40 feet or so away from the Fox.
The Fox was a little timid but seemed to be quite happy with people being around as long as you did not try to get too close. As this is a busy nature preserve the fox probably knows that it will get tast tit bits from the visitors.
The Lense I was using was a Sigma 70-300mm fitted to my Canon 350D. My camera was on a tripod but I did not use a remote shutter release as I wanted to get these shots before it wandered off.
Nige
Hi Nigel,
Thanks for the info. Of the three, I prefer the second image, as is. I am not sure if cropping, or other pp would help, maybe a bit of sharpening. I say that, because I can't get that close to the beasts, and it looks alert.
If it is possible, it may be useful to return to the site, perhaps with some 'bait', see if you can get some different poses.
wrt post processing, I guess you need to practice. Maybe you would let Asher loose on it, for one of the 'challenges', and note what folk do, and see if it is possible to replicate it with your software.
Best wishes,
Ray
Thanks for the info. Of the three, I prefer the second image, as is. I am not sure if cropping, or other pp would help, maybe a bit of sharpening. I say that, because I can't get that close to the beasts, and it looks alert.
If it is possible, it may be useful to return to the site, perhaps with some 'bait', see if you can get some different poses.
wrt post processing, I guess you need to practice. Maybe you would let Asher loose on it, for one of the 'challenges', and note what folk do, and see if it is possible to replicate it with your software.
Best wishes,
Ray
Nigel Morton
New member
Thanks Ray, I would be happy if anyone wanted to see if they could improve the images. Thanks for the suggestion.
Nige
Nige
nicolas claris
OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Well, I'm in my sharp period!
Would be easier to have the original image, but for now:
This is my attemp to this very nice fox
Nigel Morton
New member
Thanks Nicolas, nice improvement. If you want the full image to have a play with then just let me know where to send it.
Nige
Nige
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Very interesting Nicolas that what you did not only gave the fur definition and increased the 3-D effect of the fox but surprisingly that transformed the space in which the fox lives and breathes to feel much much larger. I have never seen this before. This is a very important new esthetic experience for me.
Did you select the Fox to do this?
The original picture was so short of space and you have cured this!
Asher
Did you select the Fox to do this?
The original picture was so short of space and you have cured this!
Asher
Aaron Strasburg
New member
#2 is definitely my favorite, especially with Nicolas' sharpening. The fox looks very intent and intelligent in this image. It is great to see such a closeup. I've not been so close to one, but they seem like such sharp animals.
The sharpening does transform the image in unexpected ways.
The sharpening does transform the image in unexpected ways.
nicolas claris
OPF Co-founder/Administrator
I only applied my sharpness action plus a midtone open-up (1.2) to the all image.
The 3D but natural aspect is given by the contrast between sharp and blurred areas....
I've PM Nigel with my email for him to send me the original file... we'll see
nicolas claris
OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Nigel has been nice enough to send me his fox.
So I made a new attempt on the origninal file.
I'm home and did it on my uncalibrated Powerbook.
What I did:
- Get some white blown out back with shadow/light filter
- Made de pic right to left so the fox looks to the right in our way of reading (sorry Middle-East members ;-))
- Turn the fox so it looks horizontally (thus cropped a bit the pic)
- Apply my sharpening action
- USM 25/25/0 on the eye only
- Saturate the red furr
- Downsize to 1000 pix
- Apllied USM 100/1/0
voilà:
So I made a new attempt on the origninal file.
I'm home and did it on my uncalibrated Powerbook.
What I did:
- Get some white blown out back with shadow/light filter
- Made de pic right to left so the fox looks to the right in our way of reading (sorry Middle-East members ;-))
- Turn the fox so it looks horizontally (thus cropped a bit the pic)
- Apply my sharpening action
- USM 25/25/0 on the eye only
- Saturate the red furr
- Downsize to 1000 pix
- Apllied USM 100/1/0
voilà:
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Nicolas,
It did not occur to me before that the Fox head in the first of Nigel's pictures, seems to be the protagonist, looking to us, whereas the Fox looking from the right side in image #2 appears to be looking back at us.
I wonder whether or not this placement is indeed related, as you have suggested, to the direction of handwriting.
Perhaps people who were raised to write in their (non-European) native scripts from right to left, could tell us whether or not this is the case. It would have to be only those who learned a European text as a second language. Unfortunately, European culture tends to cover other cultures too easily.
In any case, thanks for your insight. Does anyone else even feel this difference in ranking of the fox based on left or right position or is it just the two of us??
I like your new rendering of the fox, BTW, but I prefer he is looking back at me!
Asher
It did not occur to me before that the Fox head in the first of Nigel's pictures, seems to be the protagonist, looking to us, whereas the Fox looking from the right side in image #2 appears to be looking back at us.
I wonder whether or not this placement is indeed related, as you have suggested, to the direction of handwriting.
Perhaps people who were raised to write in their (non-European) native scripts from right to left, could tell us whether or not this is the case. It would have to be only those who learned a European text as a second language. Unfortunately, European culture tends to cover other cultures too easily.
In any case, thanks for your insight. Does anyone else even feel this difference in ranking of the fox based on left or right position or is it just the two of us??
I like your new rendering of the fox, BTW, but I prefer he is looking back at me!
Asher
nicolas claris
OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Well I guess our western brain has been educated to understand an image from left to right more positive, powerfull. Dynamic.
As I've stated above it is the exact contrary for those educated from birth with writing from right to left.
They should see/interprate the "new" Fox less Dynamic.
As I've stated above it is the exact contrary for those educated from birth with writing from right to left.
They should see/interprate the "new" Fox less Dynamic.
Angela Weil
New member
The Fox....
I prefer the first version.
Why? Because the fox seems to be alive. In the first version, I observe a fox concentrating on something. The space above and in front points to a particular direction and the angle of the head (and the ears) is more in tune with a natural posture of a fox sniffing something out.
I would not turn the direction of the image because of 'reading direction' in different cultures. I might turn the direction of an image for editorial reasons if the image was placed in a book or magazine. In that instance, I would have the fox look 'inward', depending on the placement of the image on the page or on the double spread.
Angela
I prefer the first version.
Why? Because the fox seems to be alive. In the first version, I observe a fox concentrating on something. The space above and in front points to a particular direction and the angle of the head (and the ears) is more in tune with a natural posture of a fox sniffing something out.
I would not turn the direction of the image because of 'reading direction' in different cultures. I might turn the direction of an image for editorial reasons if the image was placed in a book or magazine. In that instance, I would have the fox look 'inward', depending on the placement of the image on the page or on the double spread.
Angela
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Oh yes, Nicolas, I forgot to challenge your right to flip this picture!!!! Actually, the point you made is subtle and interesting. However, Angela does have apoint about the animals natural posture. Think how much worse one would make a hyena look if one made the back hoizontal. It would now be submissive or eating!
Thanks for pointing these things out. We must bew carefull not to anthropomorphize our images of animals and this perhaps divorce them from their reality of being a wild animal, that must retain their essence to be alive.
Asher
Thanks for pointing these things out. We must bew carefull not to anthropomorphize our images of animals and this perhaps divorce them from their reality of being a wild animal, that must retain their essence to be alive.
Asher
nicolas claris
OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Angela has the complete right not to agree with me and to prefer the 1st version.
BTW, Angela, due to my business, I'm used to put the "strong" images on right handed pages, they are more seen by readers hence better "marketing" ratio...
But Asher, your comments are amazing to me coming from him, for once I break the rules (oh! gently!)you send me back in my backyard! I thought "everything was allowed" when doing "art"?
Maybe I'd like to see this nice little red fox looking more friendly/close to me? that could be my interpretation of MY reality...
BTW, Angela, due to my business, I'm used to put the "strong" images on right handed pages, they are more seen by readers hence better "marketing" ratio...
But Asher, your comments are amazing to me coming from him, for once I break the rules (oh! gently!)you send me back in my backyard! I thought "everything was allowed" when doing "art"?
Maybe I'd like to see this nice little red fox looking more friendly/close to me? that could be my interpretation of MY reality...
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
My friend Nicolas, precisely, you are the one I expect to guard everything just as nature made it!
I am happy that you are in fact, at times, much more adventurous. I like to see you do things like experiment with the angle of the animal and its direction.
Through your explanations and Angela's insights, I am learning l a little more of the nature of animals we might be sensitive to if we are to portray them in a particular way.
Asher
Nigel Morton
New member
Thanks Nicolas for your time spent on improving this image and for the details on how you managed it. The extra deffinition and colour are lovely and it is surprising what a difference flipping the image makes.
Nige
Nige
I also 'prefer' Nicolas's first image. The colours look right, compared to the beasts I see near here. Wrt the angle, it depends where/who you are. If I am a stood-up human, then I am looking down on the fox, the fox is normally looking down on its prey.
The second image (of Nigel's original three) is acceptable, since I am to the side of the fox, observing, as he is intent on his next snack. If I am at the eye level of the fox, then my viewpoint will be different, a bit unnatural for me. So I guess my preference is aligned with how I see a fox in most situations. The first of Nigel's images, looking straight on at the fox does not work for me, since in that situation, for a split second, the fox looks right back at me, but as Nigel has said, these are almost domestic animals.
My belief is that in classic paintings, aggression is normally shown as coming from the left. I think it is related to the 'sword arm'. However, the fox does not look aggressive, it is not how they work.
Best wishes,
Ray
The second image (of Nigel's original three) is acceptable, since I am to the side of the fox, observing, as he is intent on his next snack. If I am at the eye level of the fox, then my viewpoint will be different, a bit unnatural for me. So I guess my preference is aligned with how I see a fox in most situations. The first of Nigel's images, looking straight on at the fox does not work for me, since in that situation, for a split second, the fox looks right back at me, but as Nigel has said, these are almost domestic animals.
My belief is that in classic paintings, aggression is normally shown as coming from the left. I think it is related to the 'sword arm'. However, the fox does not look aggressive, it is not how they work.
Best wishes,
Ray