• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

The Zoom Blues

Wendy Thurman

New member
I've got a case. I've hopefully found a cure, and that's a 50/1.4 that is now glued to my camera. The zooms open up a lot of possibilities but I am finding that they are restrictive as well- I don't think about what I am doing but react to a given situation or worse yet, try to create a situation. I've gotten frustrated compositionally and too taken with "the image" and trying to construct it rather than recognize it.

I think this is all a bit vague but I can't help but think that if I limit my options, I'll expand my vision and perhaps begin to develop more as a photographer. The D700 with the grip removed and the prime installed is much more employable in an instant- it's not a Leica, but it's fairly intuitive.

Something's got to give!

Wendy
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Hi Wendy, how you keeping?

There are two equally valid camps. The zoomers and the loners ( well twosomes! ). I am a loner. I might miss a few shots, but at the end of the day my back doesn't hurt. Dec 2007 to now, I have travelled with one or max two lenses only. efov is 35/50 and or 90. the last holidays my d700 was
paired with the 50 and the m8 with a 28 and 75. i never carried more than 1 camera/ 1 lens per day.

It has become second nature to me. can envision the frame, relatively non-threatening ( a + in your part of the woods I guess ! ) and no fuss.

have worked the zooms..useful for fast and furious action. I have a slow and contemplative attitude to life.

Personally, yours is an excellent choice. try high iso b&w with the 50 and the d700. you might be surprised!

Take care.

I've got a case. I've hopefully found a cure, and that's a 50/1.4 that is now glued to my camera. The zooms open up a lot of possibilities but I am finding that they are restrictive as well- I don't think about what I am doing but react to a given situation or worse yet, try to create a situation. I've gotten frustrated compositionally and too taken with "the image" and trying to construct it rather than recognize it.

I think this is all a bit vague but I can't help but think that if I limit my options, I'll expand my vision and perhaps begin to develop more as a photographer. The D700 with the grip removed and the prime installed is much more employable in an instant- it's not a Leica, but it's fairly intuitive.

Something's got to give!

Wendy
 

Wendy Thurman

New member
Fahim-

I admit I've taken more than a little inspiration from your photographs as well as your oft-stated approach- less is more. I've the 50/1.4 and the 85/1.4 and I'm going to work with these two lenses exclusively for a while. The weight of the big Nikkor fast zooms is killing me, and then there's the aesthetic challenges I mentioned previously.

I am doing well, alhamdulillah. I am hoping for a trip to Istalif this weekend to shoot the potters. I'll be in Dubai for a couple of days at the end of August- if you can get away for a day drop by Le Meridien Airport Hotel!

Wendy
 
I've got a case. I've hopefully found a cure, and that's a 50/1.4 that is now glued to my camera. The zooms open up a lot of possibilities but I am finding that they are restrictive as well


A 50/1.4 has an incredible zoom mechanism, albeit manual. You step forward to get closer and step back to zoom wider.

I don't think about what I am doing but react to a given situation or worse yet, try to create a situation. I've gotten frustrated compositionally and too taken with "the image" and trying to construct it rather than recognize it.

As to the quandry here, well if you are simply finding and not crafting a composition in your mind, then you are simply taking snapshots and not crafting photographs (anybody can cook with $1000 set of saute & sauce pans, but not anyone can cook fine cuisine with them). This frustration is a hurdle your mind must cross to reach a deeper more intuitive understanding. Study it some more and then step back and let your subconscious mind process it for a while and enjoy a day at the beach, a long bike ride, a hike, or a jog w/o the camera and be in the moment without worrying about composition. This periodic step back to view things from a wider perspective intellectually and emotionally is vital to mastery of a subject.

As a practical step, you should learn that the angle and distance of your lense to subject determines the composition (relationship of elements in the frame) while a zoom simply changes framing (wider or not so wide). You can simulate zooming in by taking two steps back with a fixed focal length lens and cropping to get the compressed perspective. Or you could shoot a handheld pano (Photomerge in PS is pretty good) after stepping forward to simulate a wider angle (albeit wide angle distortion is lost).

Until you have reached the physical limits of your lenses, getting more lenses with only add to the confusion of learning to compose rather than helping. Get a new lens if you want snapshots, learn to use what you have if your goal is to take photographs. Any competent photographer can take beautifully composed photos with a $5 disposable camera.

It is a long hard path to journeyman status (mastery is the ability to train, not the ability to create) and mastery of a subject is years beyond that. But attempting to learn to use yet another tool (lense) before you can fully use what you have will make the path of learning wider, the learning curve steeper, and just add confusion to an already challenging subject.

Additionally, FWIW, zooms are prime lenses. Only things like diopter filters (close up filters), 1.4x & 2X extenders, and other such add-ons to primary lenses are not primes. A 70-200mm zoom is prime lense. A 1.4x tele-extenders is a non-prime lense.

more concrete idea to follow,

Sean
 

Daniel Buck

New member
I like primes better myself too. When I use a zoom, I usually end up using it like a prime, either all the way zoomed out, or all the way zoomed in, rarely in between, not really sure why.
 
A 50/1.4 has an incredible zoom mechanism, albeit manual. You step forward to get closer and step back to zoom wider.

...

As a practical step, you should learn that the angle and distance of your lense to subject determines the composition (relationship of elements in the frame) while a zoom simply changes framing (wider or not so wide). You can simulate zooming in by taking two steps back with a fixed focal length lens and cropping to get the compressed perspective. Or you could shoot a handheld pano (Photomerge in PS is pretty good) after stepping forward to simulate a wider angle (albeit wide angle distortion is lost)

...

more concrete idea to follow

To illustrate that the freedom of a zoom exists with a fixed focal length lense, consider the following images.

Washington Park Arboretum, Seattle, Washington, USA
Example-50-fixed-perspective.jpg



If all you desire is to be a little closer but need to be further back to align elements to get your desired composition, then step back and crop. Most fixed focal length lenses are sharper than comparably priced zooms meaning a minor crop is likely to have better image quality than the shot from a comparably priced zoom.

The example here shows two images of similar character where one is too wide and has the dog and better contrasting attire on the passerby.

The next example is a wider angle shot created by stitching 3 shots taking with a 100/2.8 (the Canon macro which I love). Albeit, 7 shots should have been used for this stitch to achieve more uniform sharp focus.

The Tatoosh Range and Mt. Adams from Paradise Park, Mt. Rainier National Park, Washington State, USA
SPE27526_RSE_01_pano_crop.jpg


This illustrates that a fixed focal length lense does not limit your options except for action when stitching shots. Although stitching across time opens up some intriguing photo-illustrative options.

None of these shots are wonderful, but they are illustrative that software technology can overcome some of the limits you mention. They illustrate that you can get that shot even though you lense cannot get it directly while leaving you with the qualities of a fixed focal length lense.

Do not give up on fixed focal lengths yet. There is a reason they are favored over zooms for learning composition and that is because you must use your feet to zoom and you not only visual see the composition change, but such movement also invokes your usage of physical memory (body movement and location) to help your mind absorb more information than just with the eyes alone. This increases retention of information and helps you form that compositional intuition you seek. Especially as that compositional intuition involves moving your body without thought into position to get the shot.

Be humble as you approach composing and remember to genuflect to your goal, bend your knees and get lower to see from another angle. Your own bodies movement and flow is an element of composing intuitively and learning that element with a zoom is an order of magnitude more difficult.

happy shooting,

Sean
 
Last edited:

Kathy Rappaport

pro member
Zoom/Prime

I took a class when I was shooting film about 8-9 years ago. We could only shoot at one focal length - regardless of the lens (zoom or prime) for the full week of the class. The purpose was to come up with a style that was our own and to master the capability of the one lens and focal length. There is actually a sence of freedom to do that.

With digital, it's not practical to go out and shoot and keep changing lenses all day. With film, you really wanted to avoid that if you could.

From that class I learned that if I could only shoot with one focal length it'd be either a 50 mm or 35mm. You can do so much with those two. I am thinking that I would love to shoot a wedding with only my 50 1.2 - I did do that last week at a bridal shower I went to and I may do that with the wedding next month.
 

Daniel Buck

New member
I took a class when I was shooting film about 8-9 years ago. We could only shoot at one focal length - regardless of the lens (zoom or prime) for the full week of the class. The purpose was to come up with a style that was our own and to master the capability of the one lens and focal length. There is actually a sence of freedom to do that.

With digital, it's not practical to go out and shoot and keep changing lenses all day. With film, you really wanted to avoid that if you could.

From that class I learned that if I could only shoot with one focal length it'd be either a 50 mm or 35mm. You can do so much with those two. I am thinking that I would love to shoot a wedding with only my 50 1.2 - I did do that last week at a bridal shower I went to and I may do that with the wedding next month.

I used to do that on my own while I was in college, to "learn" a focal length. For a weeks at a time I'd use only one focal length (having only primes at the time anyway), I wouldn't switch the lens out for a few weeks. I enjoyed doing this, it didn't really seem like a hindrance to have only one focal length with me. And I really learned to "see" in that focal length. I think this has done me good, now that I'm shooting large format, and don't usually care but two focal lengths with me, long and short :D
 
Top