Which Camera is the quietist and yet gives quality images?

My 5D is too loud! My 1DII, the same!

I have a "life-saving" G10 which behaves perfectly for Classical Concerts where I have to shoot but the fact that I need to use ISO 800 or higher and no flash makes images rather grainy and the color range limited.

I'm planning to buy a new DSLR to have hopefully greater DR and pixel power. I'm photographing detail rich scenes, an entire orchestra. I'd like to know what is the quietest camera avaialble and then if need be I'll put it in a Jacobson blimp as shown here.


Two questions:

1. While solving the shutter sound problem, the G10 works. It's possible that other digicams are a better choice than the G10 in being also silent but having less noise. Any better performing digicam you can suggest?

2. I'm considering the 5DII but does anyone know what the quietest DSLR is in the Canon line.
At the same time, any other ideas would be great!

Thanks,

Asher

Hi, Asher,

It will be interesting to see how the Micro Four Thirds cameras do in this regard. They are not SLR's, and so have no reflex mirror mechanism, but still use (as I understand it) a focal plane shutter.

Best regards,

Doug

If you have a relatively liberal budget, and a single lens reflex is too loud, may I suggest looking at a Red? Ultra high-def video from modular cameras, You can pull some excellent stills from the progressive video stream. It's the trendy thing for indy movie makers, all brought to us by the same fellow that became uber-wealthy from Oakley sunglasses.

(Caveat: I have never used a Red myself. )

Lower budget fallbacks: Any of a number of the new, high-end prosumer HD video cameras with tapeless (i.e. direct to flash memory) operation. My wife is taking delivery of a new top-end Canon Vixia HD camcorder today. The stills that this thing can produce, simultaneously with the video stream, are remarkable. The whole unit fits in your palm! (I have over $100K worth of standard definition DV gear in the closet that's now almost worthless due to just such amazing new units.)

M8...

G10...

Other non-DSLRs. No mirror!

and, learn to love noise ;-)

Ken Tanaka said:

If you have a relatively liberal budget, and a single lens reflex is too loud, may I suggest looking at a Red? Ultra high-def video from modular cameras, You can pull some excellent stills from the progressive video stream. It's the trendy thing for indy movie makers, all brought to us by the same fellow that became uber-wealthy from Oakley sunglasses.

Click to expand...

I thought of that but the body is $17,000 and the nearest lest for the job is another $6500!

Ken Tanaka said:

Any of a number of the new, high-end prosumer HD video cameras with tapeless (i.e. direct to flash memory) operation. .......... The stills that this thing can produce, simultaneously with the video stream, are remarkable. The whole unit fits in your palm!

Click to expand...

Ken,

I've wondered about that. What kind of still image resolution and zoom does your wife's camera have.

Asher

The HF S10 can produce a 6 mp still, the less expensive HF 20 approx. 3.8mp. Check the specs for yourself.

Vixia HF S10

Vixia HF20

These are both CMOS sensors...quite good. If you're not familiar with today's HD cameras I think you'll be shocked at how good they are, even at the prosumer level. I've been away from filmmaking since early 2004 and I was stunned by the advancements.

Ken Tanaka said:

If you have a relatively liberal budget, and a single lens reflex is too loud, may I suggest looking at a Red? Ultra high-def video from modular cameras, You can pull some excellent stills from the progressive video stream. It's the trendy thing for indy movie makers, all brought to us by the same fellow that became uber-wealthy from Oakley sunglasses.

(Caveat: I have never used a Red myself. )

Lower budget fallbacks: Any of a number of the new, high-end prosumer HD video cameras with tapeless (i.e. direct to flash memory) operation. My wife is taking delivery of a new top-end Canon Vixia HD camcorder today. The stills that this thing can produce, simultaneously with the video stream, are remarkable. The whole unit fits in your palm! (I have over $100K worth of standard definition DV gear in the closet that's now almost worthless due to just such amazing new units.)

Click to expand...

Graeme Nattress, a red developer, is on Luminous Landscape I think. Not sure that he'll be able to help with the price though

Mike

None of the EOS cameras can operate as quietly as a PowerShot G10, but the current models are very quiet when set appropriately as follows:

EOS-1Ds Mark III and EOS-1D Mark III: For quietest operation, select the Silent single shooting drive mode, identified by the letter S on the top LCD data panel. In this mode, the mirror makes a soft noise when it flips up, then the shutter fires very quietly. After the exposure ends, the camera remains totally silent with the mirror up until the shutter button is released by the photographer. At that time, the shutter and mirror are reset at a slower speed than normal, resulting in quiet operation. Alternatively, both of these cameras can be set to fire the shutter repeatedly with the mirror locked up by selecting Custom Function III-15-2. This can be very effective in situations where it is unnecessary to monitor the subject through the viewfinder prior to exposure.

EOS 5D Mark II and 50D: For quietest operation, activate the Live View mode and select Silent Shooting Mode 2. This mode is similar to the Silent single shooting mode described above, but it is quieter because the reflex mirror has already been raised when Live View is activated. The first shutter curtain is electronically simulated in this mode, so the only noise you hear when shooting is the sound of the second shutter curtain closing the shutter to end the exposure. Once again, the camera remains silent until the shutter button is released by the photographer, at which point the shutter is quietly reset and Live View resumes.

EOS 40D: This camera has the same settings as the 50D for Live View and Silent Mode 2, but it resumes Live View after the exposure without the need to let up on the shutter button. However, the shutter is not reset until you do let up off the shutter button, and the reset sound is a bit noisier than the 50D.

Hope this helps!

Do you know, I'd forgottoen the silent mode on the 1Ds3 and hadn't realised that you were simulating the forst curtain on the 5D2. Surely only a matter of time befoer the second curtain is also simluated?

Mike

Chuck! Thank you for reminding us of these modes. I never seem to need to be so silent with my EOS cameras but you've encouraged me to revisit these sections of the manuals for the 5DII and 1DsIII.

Hi, Chuck,

Nice to see you here.

Chuck Westfall(Canon USA) said:

EOS 40D: This camera has the same settings as the 50D for Live View and Silent Mode 2, but it resumes Live View after the exposure without the need to let up on the shutter button. However, the shutter is not reset until you do let up off the shutter button, and the reset sound is a bit noisier than the 50D.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much for reminding me of this. I ignored the emergence of these modes when I had no camera to which they applied, and when I got my EOS 40D I forgot all about it.

Best regards,

Doug

Silent shooting in Live View

Well, I had no idea that my EOS 40D had Silent Shooting in Live View mode. I've been operating in Silent Shooting Mode 1 (which I suspect is the factory default, since I have no recollection of changing any settings in that area).

Way cool. Especially cool is Mode 2. There, when operating in Live view (never mind how one might have focused - maybe in "view camera" mode), the actual shot is pretty quiet (only the shutter second curtain moves - the first curtain has been open since the onset of live view, which onset incidentally is pretty noisy), and if you hold the shutter button fully pressed, you can delay the shutter recock (which makes a significant sound) until you can put the camera back under your lap robe or something.

Of course none of this is as convenient nor even as quiet as the mode of many non-SLR cameras (I used to use my Fuji S602 for such situations as chamber concerts in private homes). But it's good to realize that we do have it available.

Best regards,

Doug

Hi, Doug:

I'm glad to hear that you're pleased with the silent shooting capability of the EOS 40D. As I mentioned, the 50D and 5D Mark II are even quieter, which can be very helpful in various shooting conditions.

Actually, the 5D Mark II can be totally silent while shooting, if you're willing to settle for extracting a frame from an HD video clip. This cuts the resolution way down to approximately 2 megapixels, but sometimes, especially for web display or small prints, that's enough.

Chuck Westfall(Canon USA) said:

Hope this helps!

Click to expand...

For sure it does!
Glad to see you here again…

Yes, silent mode on the 1-series! However the main draw back I see to using the "silent mode", is that (I think) the only way to turn it on or off is to have it connected to a computer. It's not one of the settings that can be changed in side of the camera itself. This is silly, and the only reason why I've not used that feature in 5 years. Chuck, any way of enabling/disabling this feature on a 1Ds2 without connecting the camera to a computer? I've never even tried it on the 1Ds2, but I remember this feature on the 1D, I believe it was.

You'll have a noticeably longer blackout time when the mirror flaps however. It's not entirely silent, but alot quieter than the normal mirror flap.

Thanks Chuck for bringing to us your special knowledge of the silent modes of Canon DSLR's. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting my hands on a 5DII to try tomorrow. I'll print out your instructions and give it a try.

Meanwhile, I want to sing the praises of the modest G10! I was shooting today in a music master class with just one faculty member and the violist graduate student and her pianist. The 5D was not really much of a disturbance to them, (it seems) and the 24-105mm lens was just right for the small room. I killed the focus "beep". Still, I was still very uncomfortable with the 5D shutter noise. It disturbed how I reacted to the music. Just that shutter noise seemed to create a barrier for me.

So I changed to the G10 with it's easy to view LCD screen. The difference was amazing. It's utterly silent! But more than that, it's use is so fluid and almost lyrical. With teacher and student playing and the pianist behind them lit by the falling later afternoon light, this was a magical experience. Without live view, one cannot so easily dodge and move to adjust one's approach to line up the musicians in an composition. With the G10 it's a cinch! Not only must one arrange the people, but also the bow arm and bow and fingers in the strings are moving all the time. With the G10, I was able to respond to their movement and still not disrupt their reactions to each other.

I am so impressed with the G10 that I can't wait to try the 5DII to see if I get that vivid creative experience. The screen allows me to also look at the players at the same time.

So here in this little G10 is a remarkable tool. Imagine if there was a 5DII sensor in one of those!!!

Asher

P.S. i have a big shoot tomorrow and then I'll share some of these pictures!

Daniel Buck said:

Yes, silent mode on the 1-series! However the main draw back I see to using the "silent mode", is that (I think) the only way to turn it on or off is to have it connected to a computer. It's not one of the settings that can be changed in side of the camera itself. This is silly, and the only reason why I've not used that feature in 5 years. Chuck, any way of enabling/disabling this feature on a 1Ds2 without connecting the camera to a computer? I've never even tried it on the 1Ds2, but I remember this feature on the 1D, I believe it was.

You'll have a noticeably longer blackout time when the mirror flaps however. It's not entirely silent, but alot quieter than the normal mirror flap.

Click to expand...

Daniel

On the 1Ds3 the 'Silent' mode is engaged from the camera top plate controls.

Mike

Daniel Buck said:

Yes, silent mode on the 1-series! However the main draw back I see to using the "silent mode", is that (I think) the only way to turn it on or off is to have it connected to a computer. It's not one of the settings that can be changed in side of the camera itself. This is silly, and the only reason why I've not used that feature in 5 years. Chuck, any way of enabling/disabling this feature on a 1Ds2 without connecting the camera to a computer?

Click to expand...

Silent single shooting mode is a standard drive setting on the Mark III cameras, as Mike pointed out. It's a Personal Function on earlier 1D class cameras, which means that initially, it must be uploaded to those cameras through Canon software like EOS Utility. However, once it has been uploaded, the function can be turned on or off in the camera itself, just like a Custom Function. In other words, no tethering is required to engage or deactivate silent mode after it has been uploaded to the camera.

Best Regards,

Chuck Westfall
Technical Advisor/Professional Products Marketing Division
Consumer Imaging Group/Canon U.S.A., Inc.

Mike Shimwell said:

Do you know, I'd forgottoen the silent mode on the 1Ds3 and hadn't realised that you were simulating the forst curtain on the 5D2. Surely only a matter of time befoer the second curtain is also simluated?

Mike

Click to expand...

One would hope so, but we haven't heard an answer to that question yet from the R&D engineers.

Best Regards,

Chuck Westfall
Technical Advisor/Professional Products Marketing Division
Consumer Imaging Group/Canon U.S.A., Inc.

Chuck Westfall(Canon USA) said:

It's a Personal Function on earlier 1D class cameras, which means that initially, it must be uploaded to those cameras through Canon software like EOS Utility. However, once it has been uploaded, the function can be turned on or off in the camera itself, just like a Custom Function. In other words, no tethering is required to engage or deactivate silent mode after it has been uploaded to the camera.

Click to expand...

Oh, I wasn't aware of that, thanks Chuck I'll give it a try! Are personal functions like that on the newer cameras? It seems a little strange that you can't access the item until you turn it on via a computer?

Chuck Westfall(Canon USA) said:

None of the EOS cameras can operate as quietly as a PowerShot G10, ..........

Click to expand...

Chuck,

It seems that some camera companies have made it a policy to make cameras announce that the picture is being taken. This seems like social good manners. However for pros, we do need to get rid of the shutter sounds sometimes. So, having the Eos high level DSLR's silent as technically possible would be a great step forward.

This would be especially valuable for

• lectures,
  
• wedding ceremonies
  
• and music.

Right now, your comments are of great help to take advantage of the technology Canon has already provided for quiet operation. Thanks for documenting this here!

My interest is for classical music photography and here the lowest possible sound is desirable. So I'm thinking of the 5DII set up for live view "silence" in a Jacobson's blimp to even mask the shutter noise.

Asher

Daniel Buck said:

Oh, I wasn't aware of that, thanks Chuck I'll give it a try! Are personal functions like that on the newer cameras? It seems a little strange that you can't access the item until you turn it on via a computer?

Click to expand...

The Mark II versions of the EOS-1D and EOS-1Ds introduced in 2004 were the last Canon cameras with Personal Functions. When the Mark III versions came out in 2007, most of the P.Fn options became C.Fn's, some of them became standard menu options, and one or two were dropped. With the current cameras, all of the existing settings can be set directly on the camera, so uploading them from a computer is unnecessary.

We've published some PDFs to help owners of the Mark II and original EOS-1D and 1Ds cameras understand the changes:

http://www.usa.canon.com/uploadedim.../EquivalentCustomFunctions_Mk IIN_MkIII_2.pdf

>>having the Eos high level DSLR's silent as technically possible would be a great step forward.<<

Thanks for the feedback, Asher. I'm happy to pass it along to our engineers.

Chuck Westfall(Canon USA) said:

>>having the Eos high level DSLR's silent as technically possible would be a great step forward.<<

Thanks for the feedback, Asher. I'm happy to pass it along to our engineers.

Click to expand...

Thanks chuck,

Tonight I shot with the 5DII at the Walt disney Concert Hall. It was a fabulous experience being there hearing Belioz' Symphonie Fantastique and using the 5DII made the images possible. ISO 1600 was the minimal and I went to 3200 at times, so I wouldn't have likely succeeded with the original 5D. It seems they change the light intensity according to their own whim and fancy! I chose to use a 24mm prime lens, the new version and also a 50mm 1.2L and for some special focus shots the 70-200 2.8L IS.

I will be writing more on my question for the quiet camera. I can tell you that the blimp would have made my camera even more noticeable. However, in the orchestra's home turf, I'll probably use the blimp as one wants to get pictures during the performance. I'll try to locate a blimp and see how quiet it is.

Asher

You could use a digital back on an ALPA and compur lens, that would be very quiet... I think that someone with a bit of time and minimal mechanical skills could make a Rolleiflex to accept a digital back, or adapt one to a Mamiya 6 or Mamiya 7 to get a portable rangefinder that could shoot up to 60mp and take advantage of very nice non-retrofocus fast lenses...

leonardobarreto.com said:

You could use a digital back on an ALPA and compur lens, that would be very quiet... I think that someone with a bit of time and minimal mechanical skills could make a Rolleiflex to accept a digital back, or adapt one to a Mamiya 6 or Mamiya 7 to get a portable rangefinder that could shoot up to 60mp and take advantage of very nice non-retrofocus fast lenses...

Click to expand...

Leonardo,

How long does it take for your phase one back to write to the disk? The one I tried on the Alpa was very slow! Maybe it was as much as 10 seconds! I'll time it next time and check what species it was!

Who could adapt the Mamiya 7 to a digital back? Do you think SK Grimes could do it? That would be amazing!

Asher

asher, I never paid attention to the time the back writes to disk, but I guess you can keep shooting, apparently the new P40+ shoots very fast. --I don't see the point of shooting fast is you can't write do disk fast--

i have no idea who could do that, remember that i'm serving my term in Bolivia at the moment. I think that it would be a matter of taking the back of a Mamiya 6 and screwing a digital back adapter. Since this are different fromats you would have some spare space for the adapter. The problem is that you would get a crop factor, but this could be good to get sharper center of the image circle images.

the resulting camera would be very portable, super quiet, good IQ of non-retrofocus lenses, and fast. Focusing would be with the rangefinder ...

I remember when I was so poor that the only MF sytem I could afford was the Mamiya twin reflex. I got a second body and literally taped a POLAROID back to make a dedicated preview body. I did a some studio work with the setup...

imagine a digital Rollei twin lens reflex with sharp normal fast lens...

Of course the best would be for someone to do one from scratch. You can use digitar optics, and have a simple AF and a nice Leica type rangefinder... all with available parts...