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  #1  
Old January 3rd, 2016, 06:19 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Default So do we need a 100 MP camera for $49,000!

Here is the new camera, the XF 100MP, "The Ultimate Camera System"!




Phase One XF 100 MP


It is of course normal that fast food joints offer mega-burgers with 2 or more servings of hamburger meat plied up with layers of bun and fixings - not that anyone needs to eat that much, but it looks impressive and folk go for the size!

With digital cameras, one can do good art with anything from a cell phone, point and shoot to a pro level Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, Canon or Nikon Camera. Very few capable wedding photographers are limited by the resolution of the camera in delivering wonderful albums!

There is however, a market for high resolution MF photography and that's where Phase One comes in, this time with a Phase One designated, Sony manufactured CMOS chip claiming 16 BIOT processing and 15 stops of dynamic range. Images offered by Phase One can be downloaded and will knock your socks off.

The questions is who is this for? I imagine that the FBI and homeland might like it on a platform for sequentially photographing the stands in stadia for automatic facial recognition and the location of felons and terrorists!

Landscape photographers might love this, but, there is still 8x10 film around!

Advertising over expense watches and diamond necklaces would lap up this "advance" and they do seem to have a lavish approach to printing their material as if they were working for the Louvre!

Well for my work, I'd appreciate the gift from anyone!

I still plan, in the meanwhile, to concentrate on better planning and care with just with a Sony 7R or its new sibling, the 7RII at 50 MP.

Still, I imagine that the files from the new Phase One camera will show obvious superiority in very large prints examined up very close. In my brief tests with a 80 MP Phase One CCD Dalsa chip camera, I saw no practical killer advantage over the Sony A7R. I could detect more resolution in hair, but from a distance, they look closely similar.

No doubt, work can approach the quality of the direct exposure of Cibachrome but not match it yet. Like as not, an 8x10 sheet of film would deliver a more impressively detailed image....albeit much, much more slowly!

This has an advantage for fashion photographers with the focal plane shutter of 1/1600 sec if one has a matching flash synchronized at that speed to overwhelm daylight!

Still, $49,000 is a hell of a lot of money!

It's good though that Sony is doing this, as it means more strength to their sensor division and further upgrade to their alpha series of cameras....but not with this chip. But, no doubt, the other MF camera MFRs will have access to this new chip, unless, of course this is a proprietary design of Phase One! Let's see what Pentax has to say about this!

Asher
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  #2  
Old January 4th, 2016, 05:04 AM
Tom Robbins Tom Robbins is offline
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Oh what the heck, I'll take two. In for a penny...
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  #3  
Old January 4th, 2016, 08:55 AM
Andy brown Andy brown is offline
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Isn't the new Canon coming in with about 120 meg?
Not sure about the price tag though.
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  #4  
Old January 4th, 2016, 11:44 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Nice camera, but less a revolution than what Phase One would like us to believe. Their previous camera was already 80 millions pixels, this is only a bit bigger.

Who is this for? Certainly not the FBI and US homeland, they use completely different cameras. You will find a talk from the latest Chaos Computer Club here, but I digress. An educated guess would be:
-aerial photography (these google map images come from somewhere and flying an airplane is expensive)
-museums, which need to digitise their collections
-amateurs with too much money competing on the concept of IQ on some Internet forums.

Artists usually lack the money and get extra "art" points for using film anyway. Commercial photographers rarely need that amount of resolution and would rent for the occasion.

What is really interesting is that Sony went into the trouble to develop a further cmos sensor beyond their 50 megapix offer and made it as big as the largest commercially available CCDs. I wonder what Truesense (ex Kodak) and Dalsa are doing these days. I expect Hasselblad to also use that sensor within months.

Of course, if someone is interested in a digital MF, older models can be found for a little less than a new A7RII, and analog models can be had for a song.
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  #5  
Old January 4th, 2016, 01:02 PM
Michael Nagel Michael Nagel is offline
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Thanks for the CCC link, Jerome!

I see one more reason to put a camera on the market, that, despite the more gradual increase in resolution, sports a good marketable number of pixels:
Competition.

I do not have the numbers, but from what I can see, the 645Z from Ricoh/Pentax (note to Asher: 1/4000s focal plane shutter) is gaining popularity and taking away the lower priced segment of the market from Phase one thanks to the attractive pricing combined with decent quality.

So for me this is trying to make a difference.

I am curious when other manufacturers including Ricoh/Pentax come up with cameras with this or a similar sensor (does Phase one have some IP in this sensor?).

Best regards,
Michael
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  #6  
Old January 4th, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Nagel View Post
Thanks for the CCC link, Jerome!
You are welcome. Some people I know went to the congress.

Quote:
I do not have the numbers, but from what I can see, the 645Z from Ricoh/Pentax (note to Asher: 1/4000s focal plane shutter) is gaining popularity and taking away the lower priced segment of the market from Phase one thanks to the attractive pricing combined with decent quality.
I would rather think that Ricoh/Pentax increased the market to people who would not think about a MF otherwise. Phase One and their other brand: Mamiya Leaf mainly catered to the professional and rental market. Ricoh/Pentax does not appear to be primarily interested in that market. It is not because the two cameras are niche that they aim at the same niche.

Quote:
I am curious when other manufacturers including Ricoh/Pentax come up with cameras with this or a similar sensor (does Phase one have some IP in this sensor?).
That is the big question. I don't have the answer, but we should know in a month or so if Hasselblad or Ricoh/Pentax announces a new MF camera. Leica, the only other MF manufacturer, is limited by their choice of the 3:2 aspect ratio.
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  #7  
Old January 4th, 2016, 04:46 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post

This has an advantage for fashion photographers with the focal plane shutter of 1/1600 sec if one has a matching flash synchronized at that speed to overwhelm daylight!
Is that an exposure speed of 1/1600 sec? If so, for a focal plane shutter, that doesn't tell us anything about what kind of flash output duration we need to work "through it".

Or is that the "flash sync speed"? In that case, when operating at that speed, essentially any flash will "work through it".

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #8  
Old January 5th, 2016, 06:56 AM
Tom dinning Tom dinning is offline
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Now this is obscene. Someone should cover it over with a wooly blanket. There might be some who would get a little firm or moist at the vision thus exposed here.
Most likely there will be some who will be taken advantage of, coerced, even manipulated or even exploited. Then there will be those who will justify its presence or consider it a bit of harmless fun.
It's a disgrace.
I can't bare to look at it ..... any longer ..... than is necessary.
Is coveting a camera a sin?
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  #9  
Old January 6th, 2016, 01:51 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Is that an exposure speed of 1/1600 sec? If so, for a focal plane shutter, that doesn't tell us anything about what kind of flash output duration we need to work "through it".

Or is that the "flash sync speed"? In that case, when operating at that speed, essentially any flash will "work through it".
Asher mistyped. 1/1600s is the top speed of the central shutter available on Schneider lenses for that camera.
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  #10  
Old January 6th, 2016, 02:13 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Jerome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Asher mistyped. 1/1600s is the top speed of the central shutter available on Schneider lenses for that camera.
Then we might expect general purpose electronic flash units to shoot well through such a fleeting hole.

Best regards,

Doug.
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  #11  
Old January 6th, 2016, 03:26 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Then we might expect general purpose electronic flash units to shoot well through such a fleeting hole.
Not quite so. Electronic flash units designed for studio work usually have a native flash duration around 1/1000-1/2000s and older or cheaper unit can only reduce their output by limiting the capacitor charge level so that increase flash duration. Typically, they do not use a thyristor (not so cheap when the output is about 400-1000J, compared to the typical 50-75J of a camera mounted strobe). Further, the earlier radio links used in studio would add a sizeable delay to the system.

Of course, if you spend the money for that 100 Mpix camera, you might as well lease a modern, fast, flash system. They exist.

Not MF central shutter on the market reaches a speed of 1/1600s alone, BTW. The little blades can only move so fast. What Phase One does is: open the shutter, reset the sensor and then close the shutter. That is how they can cut the speed in half.
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  #12  
Old January 6th, 2016, 04:41 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi,. Jerome,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Not quite so. Electronic flash units designed for studio work usually have a native flash duration around 1/1000-1/2000s and older or cheaper unit can only reduce their output by limiting the capacitor charge level so that increase flash duration. Typically, they do not use a thyristor (not so cheap when the output is about 400-1000J, compared to the typical 50-75J of a camera mounted strobe). Further, the earlier radio links used in studio would add a sizeable delay to the system.
Ah, so.

Quote:
Of course, if you spend the money for that 100 Mpix camera, you might as well lease a modern, fast, flash system. They exist.

Not MF central shutter on the market reaches a speed of 1/1600s alone, BTW. The little blades can only move so fast. What Phase One does is: open the shutter, reset the sensor and then close the shutter. That is how they can cut the speed in half.
Aha!

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #13  
Old January 7th, 2016, 09:12 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Coming back to the camera. Have you noticed the reactions on various Internet forums/blog comments?

Basically, we have two types of posts:
-"my Nikon is better and whomever buys a camera for that kind of money is an idiot" or
-"this is the greatest thing to happen to photography since Louis Daguerre, but I need to know what colour shift there is when I use that back on a tech cam".

There must be something wrong with this Internet thing.
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