Open Photography Forums  
HOME FORUMS NEWS FAQ SEARCH

Go Back   Open Photography Forums > OPF Welcome Hall > Breaking News

Breaking News Updates, innovations, equipment: moderated!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 17th, 2015, 05:45 AM
Denbigh Gabbitas Denbigh Gabbitas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 30
Default Wedding

Let me set the scene: a wedding; the groom's family have organized a pro to cover; the bride's family, with an inflated idea of my skills have asked me to cover as well (freebie, naturally).

I figure that running around with lights and tripods will earn me a popularity rating of zero. However, I think I should be able to stick a flash and handle on my camera without looking too competitive...

So, I am looking at EOS 5D III + 580EX mk2 as my gear plus nothing else !! If anyone has any suggestions as to how I can carry this out, please offer advice. I thought exposure bracketing with 3 for 1 shooting, keep everyone out of the sun, but beyond that.....

I simply hate this happening, but once you have taken a few pictures which turn out nicely, then someone asks you... it is difficult to refuse.

Oh, forgot to mention: it all consists of a civil ceremony, a religious ceremony, dinner and breakfast the next day --- and it is all in French !!
__________________
-- Anything I post is meant to be informative or amusing, I never pick fights with ghosts.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 17th, 2015, 05:34 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 32,324
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denbigh Gabbitas View Post
Let me set the scene: a wedding; the groom's family have organized a pro to cover; the bride's family, with an inflated idea of my skills have asked me to cover as well (freebie, naturally).

I figure that running around with lights and tripods will earn me a popularity rating of zero. However, I think I should be able to stick a flash and handle on my camera without looking too competitive...

So, I am looking at EOS 5D III + 580EX mk2 as my gear plus nothing else !! If anyone has any suggestions as to how I can carry this out, please offer advice. I thought exposure bracketing with 3 for 1 shooting, keep everyone out of the sun, but beyond that.....

I simply hate this happening, but once you have taken a few pictures which turn out nicely, then someone asks you... it is difficult to refuse.

Oh, forgot to mention: it all consists of a civil ceremony, a religious ceremony, dinner and breakfast the next day --- and it is all in French !!

Denbigh,

Look up who the Pro is. He might be coming with two assistants and doing videography as well. That means they will be staking out the prime vantage points. Important to introduce yourself to that photographer so he is not para pic of you being in the way.

Will that pro be doing shots of the bride and her maids getting dressed and makeup? That is a small space and you will be in the way. If no one is doing that, then you could take that on as you own contribution to the bride!

When is the event? Do you already own the equipment? Let us know and I will tell you how ai would tackle this.

Asher
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 18th, 2015, 01:04 AM
Denbigh Gabbitas Denbigh Gabbitas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 30
Default

Asher - I doubt that I will have any opportunity to know anything about the photographer, but can imagine that saying hello and making it clear that I am there as an amateur and not selling anything to anybody might be a good idea.

All my gear is my own. I have reached that time in my life when I can afford the gear I should have loved to have when I was younger and impoverished (or the argentique equivalent).

I intend taking EOS 5D mkiiii, 430EX or 580EXII, Canon 24-80 L f/4 lens. Probably have 17-40 in the car, but think just one lens is manageable. I would rather keep a low profile, one camera, one lens seems about as much as I would like to be toting, but I just have to have one flash just in case for fill if we get full sun. I am expecting to be able to use raw and LR to compensate for extreme contrast conditions. I could give the 430 to my wife and use the 580 to fire the 430 by wifi, but have v little experience with flash as I ddon't really like it much; any suggestions on that?

I anticipate having privileged access to the bride, so getting in there is probable - I can shoot some video of preps with bridesmaids, of bride's parents tittivating themselves... Maybe take my 5D mkII and get my wife to wave that about at the same time...

I just don't want to let my friends down as they think I am Cartier Bresson reincarnated !!
__________________
-- Anything I post is meant to be informative or amusing, I never pick fights with ghosts.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 18th, 2015, 07:23 AM
Robert Watcher Robert Watcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Xela, Guatemala / Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,957
Default

I'm afraid that I don't get it. You mention "don't want to let your friends down".

What are their expectations of you based on? Why on earth did they select and pay for this particular 'Pro' if they don't have the confidence in them that they will get the shots they need? So much so that they feel they need you there covering the wedding because your shots will be so much better (after all you are Cartier Bresson reincarnated to them)? At least I hope the bride doesn't have more confidence in you than their pro. I hope you get my point. Don't put the extra pressure on yourself as to how good you must be or how important you are to getting the shots.

On the other hand, it may be that she just wants someone that she has invited who is competent photographically to take photos throughout the day - that compliment those photos she will get from the pro - or maybe shots they aren't likely to take or times of day they may not be covering the event. I can see the importance of that and it may already have been discussed and agreeable to the pro.

It concerns me when you are talking multi-light setups and having a second shooter with your wife etc? I'd have to ask then - why is she hiring another photographer? I would presume that you may end up with conflicts with the hired pro and you may be jeprodising the effectiveness of their resulting coverage and images because of the irritations that that would probably cause.

Most significantly is the fact that there are very few 'pro' photographers who do not write concerns related to additional photographers into their contracts. Some state that no other people can take photos - while more common is a tolerance of photographers as long as they stay out of the way of the rightful working photographer. My contract allows people to shot as long as they don't interfere with me - - - but also no other photographers are allowed while I am photographing my signature shots (the time I have alotted for formals). And never presume that the bride fully perceives the importance of that agreement, even if she has been made aware and signed to it. If the photographer walks off the job or refused to do certain things because you or the bride have violated this agreement, you may have all the pressure on you to perform the rest of the photography LOL.

My advise! Nothing wrong with introducing yourself to the photographer if you feel like it and you are not interfering with their work. No need to go into details by stating that you will not be making money from your photos. The photographer doesn't care. Just stay out of their way and if they bark at you because you are an irritation - back off. I've had guys come up to me at weddings I am shooting - holding Canon or Nikon pro bodies with massive 85mm f1.4 or 70-200 f2.8 lenses trying to impress me. While I am courteous and may say nice camera etc, I am there working and not interested in what gear anyone has. If they get in my way, I don't care how impressive their gear or how important they think they are to the bride or groom - they will be informed of my desire to have them refrain from interfering. I think that would be pretty standard with most pro photographers.

So act like any of the other guests invited to the wedding, and take your photos from the outside without interfering with the paid photographer. Because you have more knowledge and better equipment than some of the guests, you should be able to find angles and make lens choices that get you some excellent shots acting in that role. Maybe ask the bride if there are any parts of the day that the photographer is't providing coverage - and if so, you can then step up to the plate and provide the extended coverage so the whole day is documented.

As far as equipment and gear. That is the easy part. A camera and lens are all that's needed. Doesn't matter which ones. If you need to use flash, keep it on the camera and bounce it off of a ceiling or wall. You may be surprised that it is a challenge to shoot with flash outdoors in bright sunlight - because flash sync speed restricts the shutter speeds that can be used.

HERE IS SOME VALUABLE HELP ON FLASH LIGHTING FOR WEDDINGS: http://neilvn.com/tangents/bounce-fl...ng-receptions/

And finally - - - it could be that your real desire is to learn and practice taking photos at a wedding so that you can move into being hired for a wedding. Nothing wrong with that. I did it on a friends wedding 35 years ago where a professional photographer was hired. Many pros probably got their start that way. Photographing your friends wedding for that purpose - all that I have stated above, applies.
__________________
www.robertwatcher.com | INSTAGRAM - @robertwatcherphotos | YOUTUBE - robertwatcher
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 18th, 2015, 09:15 AM
Denbigh Gabbitas Denbigh Gabbitas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 30
Default

>Rob

Thanks for your comments, some of which I find very helpful.

As I said originally, it is the groom's family who have arranged the photos (as everything else) and I think it is more your 'on the other hand' being the case. The bride's family hardly know the groom, bride and groom living about 5 or 6 hours away from the bride's family, and maybe they just want to make sure that they get extra pictures for themselves. I don't know.

As you say, just a camera with one lens was my initial intention, but Asher asked about equipment, so I replied.

You give a good insight into how a pro wedding photographer is likely to be thinking and I certainly do not want to tread on his toes.

The French wedding photographers really tend to go overboard with loads of location shots with which I just wouldn't even want to compete. I thought to concentrate on very informal rather than the posed shots which he/she will be doing. Concentrating on the bride's friends.

I am sure you will understand that when close friends, who have some idea of your skills, ask you to get involved - I wouldn't even want to say 'No'.

I certainly had no intention, at 77, of building a new career - but maybe, just maybe, now that you have suggested it... ;-)
__________________
-- Anything I post is meant to be informative or amusing, I never pick fights with ghosts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 18th, 2015, 10:49 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 32,324
Default

Denbigh,

Here's the thing, the Pro has everything organized and a very hard job. He/she has been given a list of required friend and family V.I.P.s and someone to guide them. They will have a list of key "must-have" "bride and maids getting ready" formal set ups and ceremony shots. At that time they don't want distracting flash from anyone. No doubt other guests will have cell phones or digicams with flash, but you'll stand out like an unwanted extra referee at at soccer match! So no flash except during the reception or wild dancing!

Survey the scene whenever you wish to take a picture. Be at the periphery, don't ever penetrate within 5 meters of the photographer's position or where they are aiming. You cannot be ever in their field of view.

Your pictures, being further away, will have more flattering perspective and complement the pro's work well. As you are shooting with one of the finest high resolution DSLRs ever made with a state of art L lens, you will be able to crop and still get wonderful treasures of images that the bride would love. Remember that a lot is happening where the pros do not simply have to record. The children and grandmothers in the congregation, folk with adoring smiles on their faces as the bride goes by, all from 5--7 meters away!

Also, you might be able to get to the dressmaker to record the bride and maids fitting or the bride and mother looking at the dress and veil or trying on the shoes, all days before the event. Another idea is an informal hour with the bride and groom a week before the wedding. Walking, sitting on a bench, shopping, embracing.

For sure, no matter how much of a gentleman I have been, when asked to do the same, if you end up in the pros viewfinder or if (s)he senses your presence, there will be a brief but terse showdown.

The pro has no choice in the matter, (s)he has to land the plane 100% of the time perfectly! You cannot be even sensed!

With that caveat, enjoy the wedding. I encourage you to do it and the extra joy you'll bring the bride's family will be well worth that very hard work and disciplined approach. At the end you will feel, not only a great sense of satisfaction, but also a deep appreciation of the monumental task of documenting a wedding for posterity!

Good luck!

Asher
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 19th, 2015, 10:48 PM
Chris Calohan Chris Calohan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,222
Default

If I am shooting a wedding and I see another photographer on the scene, I ask them nicely the first time to please put the camera in the car and enjoy the festivities. The second time I am generally quite rude and demand they leave. I make it quite clear to the person paying me to shoot that there will be no other photographers en scene. It just cannot be. I do not have the time to worry over additional light (flashes) or shadows or noise or anything else. I am there at the request of the bride's family and they are generally paying me a boatload of money to do a professional job. If you want to shoot weddings, hang out your shingle, buy the gear and go into business but please stay out of mine. Sorry to wound you, but that Denbigh is exactly how I feel about other photographers as weddings.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 19th, 2015, 11:52 PM
Tom dinning Tom dinning is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 2,088
Default

Oh, how I know this from both ends.
As a friend of the family I like to let the pro do his/her job. And yes, its bloody hard work, and stressful if there's a chance he'll have to make allowances for a friend of the family. This is his living and reputation on the line, not yours. This isn't even a testing ground for you to feel your way for the future.
This is how it can best work. Tell the bride/groom you will happily take photos on the day but they will be from the guests perspective; the sort of casual, informal shots that the pro can't get.
Then, make sure the pro knows this. If he's any sort of a bloke he may even let you in from time to time, although, once introduced his mind will be elsewhere.
I'd also be inclined to keep low key with the flash, which could interfer with the pro. Also keep low key with the camera. Something a little less conspicuous. Be a guest. Take the happy snaps. Otherwise you'll just appear as some old fart with a flash camera trying to make the big time too late in life and annoying the guests, photographer and small children who want nothing to do with you çause their mother said so.
When a relative asks me to take some shots at a wedding I politely tell them I'll be too pissed to do so. When I was the pro, conditions where pre-determined with the bride. A pro can manage the guests with their point and presses. Thats their job. Step in once to rearrange things and he'll have a not so quiet word with you. Don't spoil anyone's day.

If nothing else works, go for Chris's advise. Its blunt and to the point. I like that. I might add a few expletives to the demand as well.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(Ultra) Orthodox Jewish Wedding Market. Ben Rubinstein Wedding and Event 12 September 27th, 2015 07:51 PM
My World: Charleston SC Wedding chi pritchard Wedding and Event 0 February 9th, 2012 07:55 AM
Dundee Wedding Photographer on the LOOSE! barry mitchell Introduce Yourself 3 May 4th, 2010 02:24 PM
Wedding Photographer Bootcamp (US 10 city tour) San Diego Spots Open! Nikolai Sklobovsky Education, Training, Workshops and Shoot Opportunities. 1 June 7th, 2009 03:54 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:32 PM.


Posting images or text grants license to OPF, yet © of such remain with its creator. Still, all assembled discussion © 2006-2017 Asher Kelman (all rights reserved) Posts with new theme or unusual image might be moved/copied to a new thread!