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  #1  
Old March 7th, 2007, 04:37 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Default B&W or Color ?



I used the 20 D with the 16-35mm lens on a tripod.
Low shutter speed.
Exposure Time 1s Aperture f/22.0 ISO 200 Focal Length 16mm*1.6
Thank you for watching.



Also added to the Skilled workman collection here .
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Last edited by Asher Kelman; February 29th, 2008 at 10:16 AM.
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  #2  
Old March 7th, 2007, 04:38 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Some more ...
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  #3  
Old March 7th, 2007, 05:59 AM
Louis Doench Louis Doench is offline
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Both excellent photographs.
I'm gonna hafta say I like the color better. In B&W the light from that work lamp just looks harsh and a lil blown out. Otherwise... luvly
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  #4  
Old March 7th, 2007, 06:57 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Doench View Post
Both excellent photographs.
I'm gonna hafta say I like the color better. In B&W the light from that work lamp just looks harsh and a lil blown out. Otherwise... luvly
Thank you for commenting Louis !
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  #5  
Old March 7th, 2007, 06:58 AM
Marian Howell Marian Howell is offline
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these are great studies! i really like them both ways, and usually i would say they are best in b&w, but in this case i agree with louis, color is best! the color tonalities of the image blend together so well, his shirt and the warm light, and bring an intimacy to the shot that the b&w does not, at least for me.
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  #6  
Old March 7th, 2007, 07:17 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Thank you Marian.
I have others photos of the scene.
I asked him not to move while I was shooting.
I did them with the timer and when the shot was about to be procuded I was telling him: don't move, stay still, don't move, just a moment ... ahnnn... OK that's it !
LOL
I think I was rather lucky about the 1.st shot because I also got the outside.
As I shoot RAW, I melted 2 pics: one for the inside and the other to the outside.
It worked nicely.

You don't know the scenario but I could/should have used a reflector to give more light to his face.
In fact, I do have used a bounced flash but it did not worked very much.
Perhaps I should say that it worked so well, that we can not notice its presence. LOL

I dare to post 2 more pictures.

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  #7  
Old March 7th, 2007, 12:00 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Bonjour Antonio!
Interesting shots, nice lighting.
Did you use some fill flash?

To answer your question:
color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color.

COLOR - COLOURS…
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  #8  
Old March 7th, 2007, 12:55 PM
Ray West Ray West is offline
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Hi Antonio,
This is an interesting series, is it some sort of punishment the guy is going through, or making a 'building by numbers' kit? Anyway, the few I've tried look great as sepia prints, too, if you want the 'lets make it look like an old photo' look. ;-)

Best wishes,

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  #9  
Old March 7th, 2007, 01:25 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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First Antonio,

All the pictures captivate my attention, but, your first picture I see as important. You capture one man's limited life. That picture is narrow and so is his life, painting numbers on concrete blockes! Here is a man with great skill apparently in painting numbers but on common bricks. This we can identify with humans too, that is we are also commoditized like bricks or his numbers or him, himself.

The concerete miixer is the ever-birthing mother of this important multiplication of forms that his life is dependenant on and that he gives more meaning to. With these considerations, to me, at least this subject has the potential of transcending the actual scene to have meaning to the human conditon.

Color: Insomuch as the colored picture has mother earth's color, sienna, color here adds something important which helps also to contrast with the grey non-breathing rocks around which all living things in the workshop run their own lives. (I might wonder whether you would consider desaturating the color in the blocks to clarify this.)

So here, yes here color adds something.

Not having color here would take away meaning.

In other cases color might add confusion. There is no truth except the meaning one is trying ot convey since all photographs are merely incomplete mimics of what we see anyway.

Nicolas?

Your answer comes later!

Asher
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  #10  
Old March 7th, 2007, 01:43 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Nicolas,

My respected friend!

I would submit to you in color of water and the skies. Color might be important in life or might not. Often, getting beyond what I call the "delusionorium" of life, we need to remove color or assign it to some different value and then look at things differently.

I challenge your image of here:

color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color, color is life, life is in color.


with this:



Asher
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  #11  
Old March 7th, 2007, 01:43 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Doench View Post
Both excellent photographs.
I'm gonna hafta say I like the color better. In B&W the light from that work lamp just looks harsh and a lil blown out. Otherwise... luvly
Thank you Louis for the comment !
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  #12  
Old March 7th, 2007, 01:51 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Bonjour Antonio!
Interesting shots, nice lighting.
Did you use some fill flash?

To answer your question: color is life, life is in color, ... color is life, life is in color. COLOR - COLOURS…
Boujour Nicolas. Ça va ?

Yes color is life and life is color. BUT like Asher said here

"You capture one man's limited life. That picture is narrow and so is his life, painting numbers on concrete blockes! Here is a man with great skill apparently in painting numbers but on common bricks. This we can identify with humans too, that is we are also commoditized like bricks or his numbers or him, himself."

in this context the B&W is also a valid alternative.
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  #13  
Old March 7th, 2007, 01:56 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
I answer your
with this:



Asher
Asher
what can I add ?
As (I know you know) I'm the contrary of a racist, I don't talk about "colored" people but black people.
Black is black.
As you say they are no absolute truth, let's get black (pun intended) to photography:
In RGB Black is the absence of light
In CMYK Black is the total amount of all colors.

But guess what? If you want a nice black background printed in offset you have to add an underlayer of at least 15% of blue, though some prefer to have this addition to be magenta…

colors, colours! I love you!

I maybe better go for a drink (LOL)
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  #14  
Old March 7th, 2007, 01:58 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray West View Post
Hi Antonio,
This is an interesting series, is it some sort of punishment the guy is going through, or making a 'building by numbers' kit? Anyway, the few I've tried look great as sepia prints, too, if you want the 'lets make it look like an old photo' look. ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray
No Ray it is not a punishment.
It's his work. He is painter and he is painting the numbers here but he will be painting the wall there, tomorrow.

Asher is very right about his statement, and I quote
"You capture one man's limited life. That picture is narrow and so is his life, painting numbers on concrete blockes! Here is a man with great skill apparently in painting numbers but on common bricks. This we can identify with humans too, that is we are also commoditized like bricks or his numbers or him, himself."

The old look in sepia could be an alternative ...


Cheers !
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  #15  
Old March 7th, 2007, 02:09 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
Boujour Nicolas. Ça va ?

Yes color is life and life is color. BUT like Asher said here

"You capture one man's limited life. That picture is narrow and so is his life, painting numbers on concrete blockes! Here is a man with great skill apparently in painting numbers but on common bricks. This we can identify with humans too, that is we are also commoditized like bricks or his numbers or him, himself."

in this context the B&W is also a valid alternative.
Bonjour Antonio
yes, ça va, merci!
I don't agree with Asher since a long time about B&W, we've discussed this in OPF for a long time!

In the case of your photos posted above, I do think that color do brings a lot to your work and to the human being described there.

Have a good night....
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  #16  
Old March 7th, 2007, 02:11 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
First Antonio,

All the pictures captivate my attention, but, your first picture I see as important. You capture one man's limited life. That picture is narrow and so is his life, painting numbers on concrete blockes! Here is a man with great skill apparently in painting numbers but on common bricks. This we can identify with humans too, that is we are also commoditized like bricks or his numbers or him, himself.

The concerete miixer is the ever-birthing mother of this important multiplication of forms that his life is dependenant on and that he gives more meaning to. With these considerations, to me, at least this subject has the potential of transcending the actual scene to have meaning to the human conditon.

Color: Insomuch as the colored picture has mother earth's color, sienna, color here adds something important which helps also to contrast with the grey non-breathing rocks around which all living things in the workshop run their own lives. (I might wonder whether you would consider desaturating the color in the blocks to clarify this.)

So here, yes here color adds something.

Not having color here would take away meaning.

In other cases color might add confusion. There is no truth except the meaning one is trying ot convey since all photographs are merely incomplete mimics of what we see anyway.

Nicolas?

Your answer comes later!

Asher
Asher.
You are absolutely right !

He - like many other people in this country and around the Word - live at their edges.

You put things very straight and correctly.
If you look at this guy - near, at his face - you understand how unhappy he is.
Abandoned to his luck. Hopeless.
Many of these people - also for cultural reasons - drink too much alcohol.

I am going to print 2 photos to offer him.

I am pretty sure he is never photographed.

I think these people lack of education.

But how can they get education if they can't afford it ?

Very philosophical and a little - if I may say so - out of context of this site.

Thank you for commenting. It was vey appreciated !

Your comments always are !

Cheers
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  #17  
Old March 7th, 2007, 02:24 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Nicolas,

My respected friend!
I would submit to you in color of water and the skies. Color might ... Asher
Asher,

Here again you are right.
You are talking of extremes.
Certain totalitary regimes/situations can not be photographed in color as they are the darkness themselves !
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  #18  
Old March 7th, 2007, 02:28 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Bonjour Antonio
yes, ça va, merci!
I don't agree with Asher since a long time about B&W, we've discussed this in OPF for a long time!

In the case of your photos posted above, I do think that color do brings a lot to your work and to the human being described there.

Have a good night....
How do you deal with dramatic/dark human situations ?
Shooting color can in fact, be an alternative. To enhance the drama !
It's a valid point of view !
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  #19  
Old March 7th, 2007, 02:40 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
Asher.
You are absolutely right !

He - like many other people in this country and around the Word - live at their edges.

You put things very straight and correctly.
If you look at this guy - near, at his face - you understand how unhappy he is.
Abandoned to his luck. Hopeless.
Many of these people - also for cultural reasons - drink too much alcohol./quote]

You are doing a great job by bringing his humanity and life's inhumanity into view

I am going to print 2 photos to offer him.

I am pretty sure he is never photographed.
This will be one of the most important gestures made to him it says, "You have worth"! We should all go back and give copies. It makes us less of bounty-hunters for the great pictures of down-trodden people by truly aknowledging that person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
I think these people lack of education.

But how can they get education if they can't afford it ?

Very philosophical and a little - if I may say so - out of context of this site.
Not at lall! This site has a great interest in the content of pictures and their meanings.

I want us to photograph the very best weddings, get portrait assignments by the score and be sought by cities and major corporations for the next super architectural masterpieces.

That's what we want for everyone.

Alongside that, here we are with trained eyes, minds, skills, awareness, passion and creativity plus one more human characteristic, empathy.

At OPF, we try to promote exclelence in photography. There are priorities. First we have to eat!

We have, as I see it, at least 3 jobs in photography:
  • Earn a living
  • Enjoy our passion by doing personal work too
  • Give back by holding a light to our society and our home planet.

The latter is an opportuity whicn might even provide a handsome living. I am not suggesting people refuse a sports event to shoot the inner city poor. However, I'd like people to be so successful in the commercial side of photography that they can at least visit the other side of their potential.

Asher
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Old March 7th, 2007, 02:49 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
This will be ... their potential. Asher

(How can I put an icon here ? Not this one but the thumb up )
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Old March 7th, 2007, 02:58 PM
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Hi Antonio,

one way is right click on the thumbs up icon below reply page, copy image location, then click on the 'insert image icon, at top of reply box, and paste in the url you've just copied

hth

Best wishes,

Ray
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Old March 7th, 2007, 03:04 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Hi Antonio,

one way is right click on the thumbs up icon below reply page, copy image location, then click on the 'insert image icon, at top of reply box, and paste in the url you've just copied

hth

Best wishes,

Ray



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Old March 7th, 2007, 03:23 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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I post this one just to show a wider version of the place where is/was/has been working.
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Old March 7th, 2007, 03:30 PM
Ray West Ray West is offline
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Hi Antonio,

You may have mentioned before, but are these blocks for a stadium or similar? However, the digits will need to be smaller once it gets above 999.

Best wishes,

Ray
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Old March 7th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Hi Antonio,

You may have mentioned before, but are these blocks for a stadium or similar? However, the digits will need to be smaller once it gets above 999.

Best wishes,

Ray
Ray,
The blocks are in concrete and they are to be embeded in the terrain until the numbers are at ground level.

This is done to number the areas where people are going to sell their merchandises in a market in the open air, every week.

Did I made myself clear ?
Do you understand me now ? Not offensive to you. It's just my desastrous English and sometimes my lack of vocabulary.

Cheers
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Old March 7th, 2007, 04:50 PM
Ray West Ray West is offline
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Hi Antonio,

Thanks for the info. No offence. Yer english baint too bad, me boyo.

Best wishes,

Ray
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  #27  
Old March 7th, 2007, 11:01 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Correia View Post
How do you deal with dramatic/dark human situations ?
Shooting color can in fact, be an alternative. To enhance the drama !
It's a valid point of view !
Hi Antonio

I don't! I am chasing the beauty in our world and there are… plenty!
This doesn't mean that I'm not concerned by dramas on our planet, just can't look for both drama and beauty (yes, I know, some will find beauty in some drama, but this is not my case…)
And, YES, definitvely colors as light and shadows can enhance drama…

Colors are part of the real life, as dramas are…
The rest is fake (changing the reality, thus suspicious to me) or for the old times when one couldn't technically or financially afford color technics and had to shoot B&W.
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  #28  
Old March 8th, 2007, 12:42 AM
Ray West Ray West is offline
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Question from a mid-atlantic island

Hi Nicolas,

I reckon colour could be considered as another channel of communication in the description of the scene. It can be and usually is, used to 'fake' reality. For example, using whitebalance cards, flash and other lighting, plus the extensive amount of post processing that takes place. Even the choice of lens, cropping and so on. Colour gives another level of faking possibilities. You probably exploit this, as does everyone else. Of course, many of the foregoing tricks can also be applied to monochrome images.

Is the reality the number of photons hitting the sensor, or your memory of how the colours really were? Is your reality the same as the reality for other folk?

You are strict about folk not publishing edited versions of your coloured images, since they do not then match with _your_ view/interpretation/memory of reality. (and other reasons, of course)

The eye/brain combination is pretty unreliable, there are plenty of examples of 'optical illusions' which demonstrate this, in both monochrome and colour.

Some monochrome ones are here http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/ade..._illusion.html

and some coloured ones here http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/O.../illusions.htm

I find it interesting that many of the coloured examples move it up a dimension, to produce movement effects. Some of the effects are so powerful, they may make you feel ill. (even my photography is not that bad, although other folk may disagree...)

Whatever rocks your boat, I guess

Best wishes,

Ray
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Old March 8th, 2007, 01:48 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Hi Antonio

I don't! I am chasing the beauty in our world and there are… plenty!
This doesn't mean that I'm not concerned by dramas on our planet, just can't look for both drama and beauty (yes, I know, some will find beauty in some drama, but this is not my case…)
And, YES, definitvely colors as light and shadows can enhance drama…

Colors are part of the real life, as dramas are…
The rest is fake (changing the reality, thus suspicious to me) or for the old times when one couldn't technically or financially afford color technics and had to shoot B&W.
Nicolas.
That's a good point of view.
I also agree with you: "chasing the beauty in our world and there are ... plenty"
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Old March 8th, 2007, 01:59 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Originally Posted by Ray West View Post
Hi Nicolas, I reckon colour could be ... Whatever rocks your boat, I guess Best wishes, Ray
Ray, Nicolai and everybody else,

I think this is a controversial matter as it is the "using RAW or JPG ?"

Some pictures are best in color, some are best in B&W or/and some are as good in B&W as they are in color. It's a question of personal taste.

Sometimes it's advisable to shoot JPG and most of the times RAW is best. It's a pragmatic question.
(Throught this sentence you can already understand my position about such a matter.)

We have to choose the best way, or the way we like/consider to be the best for that specific kind of picture!

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