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Art Theory: Idea workshop. Warning, not the truth here, just a venture. Examining what makes an image worthy of saving and what it does for us.

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  #91  
Old November 19th, 2011, 11:14 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Definitely, pictures having an object in front of what appears to be the subject as in "kylie" belong to a thread about how the viewer reads the image. I should say that I hesitated to publish my picture of a beach in this thread. In the end, I decided against, because I am not quite sure I understand what is the exact subject of this thread. It started with the discussion about the viewer reading, but then moved to post-treatment adding noise or subsampling the data (the little squares of jpeg). I am quite confused.
Jerome,

the thread is called reading the reading.... the repetition is important... when making work we make reading of light... how the light is read in the 1st place (and all the aspects that that encompasses) by the maker is their control and informs how the second reading takes place...

for me the thread is an explanation of a thought process... it questions why at all stages - why should images be sharpe / blurred / broken etc - why do we focus where we focus - do these choices inform the work...

the simple answer is they do - we may use machines but we use do not have to approach the process we use as mechanical..

the second reading (the viewer) can be informed by the 1st - but it doesn't have to be.. content can be mistaken for style...

when looking at work i ask why, what is the subject - does the whole from start to finish push the subject (or subvert it)...

Brittney / Kylie - are imagined works - i could not see the image - they only exist as data and are no more real than the subjects to me...

it seems simple to me as the maker but as ever they are issue with the work that I need to resolve but they are the interesting aspects that I will learn from...

Cem - control and + at the same time will enlarge them, sorry there is so little realestate used - i have learned from a thread the image should be sized in proprtion to the amount of deatail it contains !

cheers
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  #92  
Old November 20th, 2011, 05:07 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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core sample surface survey - M Hampton






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  #93  
Old November 22nd, 2011, 03:15 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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Ah Mark, but now you’ve added a new device.

First, I like “Core Sample Survey”. The intertwining of positive and negative space allows me to travel over a very shallow surface and the blurred edges (which for me are just a bit overdone) keep me centered within the square.

But, the square for me is your new device. Its importance is that it allows the object itself to be directionless and requires the movement within to hold the space. In a way, a square or circular format kills the compositional elements of the object (it’s not horizontal or vertical) allowing the compositional reading to take place within the object.

So I will add a fairly recent square. No grain was added, since the beach sand did that for me.




After the Rain, Caladesi Island
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  #94  
Old November 22nd, 2011, 03:58 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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After the Rain, Caladesi Island
Bill,

very enjoyable work - the broken edge and the triangle of movement ( looks like it may be supported through focus ) and the sand all come together - are there more from this work..

there is on the edge almost a precursor to letters - a calm fast and slow work...

just as I am moving on to unsubtle brash sharpie stuff !! some times you need to shout and not whisper ! other times just a whisper will still...


thanks for the addition... and the thoughts...

cheers
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  #95  
Old November 24th, 2011, 02:03 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Bill,

very enjoyable work - the broken edge and the triangle of movement ( looks like it may be supported through focus ) and the sand all come together - are there more from this work..

there is on the edge almost a precursor to letters - a calm fast and slow work...

just as I am moving on to unsubtle brash sharpie stuff !! some times you need to shout and not whisper ! other times just a whisper will still...


thanks for the addition... and the thoughts...

cheers
the space between things........








Space.things.between - M Hampton





cheers
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  #96  
Old November 28th, 2011, 12:28 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Space.things.between 2 - M Hampton





cheers

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  #97  
Old December 6th, 2011, 02:21 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Default Extract from - The Great American Landscape:


.







death.valley.3 - M Hampton




I made this by takeing the sensor to the edge of what it can burn - almost black on black - a trace of an image left by my families breath - from the initial measure i pushed the data till it broke - its burn left its breath of fire...

I have never been to this land other than in my mind or through the fragments left from others visits...

cheers
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  #98  
Old December 8th, 2011, 03:02 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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.







death.valley.3 - M Hampton




I made this by takeing the sensor to the edge of what it can burn - almost black on black - a trace of an image left by my families breath - from the initial measure i pushed the data till it broke - its burn left its breath of fire...

I have never been to this land other than in my mind or through the fragments left from others visits...

cheers


This is a very elegant piece. The inner glow is very seductive, and the scratch of light on the right lifts off the surface just enough to establish a tension with the mark toward the upper left.

Again, I love the square format (compositionally); the color and intensity add just the right visual surface bulge to offer the illusion of dimension.

The title is distracting; the piece seems very much alive, more like a birth than a death. Nice work!

Bill

PS
I seem often to feel the need to reference past art or artist, and I have to say, as I spent time looking at your piece, I was reminded of the English Romantic landscape painter Joseph Mallord William Turner (1775 –1851). I believe he is referred to by many as the painter of light. Some of his dark seascape capture a reminiscent quality of the light that I see in your work.

Last edited by Bill McCarthy; December 8th, 2011 at 03:19 PM. Reason: want to add more info
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  #99  
Old December 8th, 2011, 04:15 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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This is a very elegant piece. The inner glow is very seductive, and the scratch of light on the right lifts off the surface just enough to establish a tension with the mark toward the upper left.

Again, I love the square format (compositionally); the color and intensity add just the right visual surface bulge to offer the illusion of dimension.

The title is distracting; the piece seems very much alive, more like a birth than a death. Nice work!

Bill

PS
I seem often to feel the need to reference past art or artist, and I have to say, as I spent time looking at your piece, I was reminded of the English Romantic landscape painter Joseph Mallord William Turner (1775 –1851). I believe he is referred to by many as the painter of light. Some of his dark seascape capture a reminiscent quality of the light that I see in your work.
Bill,

thanks..

thanks for pushing the thread and ideas..

thanks for posting work you are making...

and thanks for making me go back and look at sir mr turner.. when he was painting some of the (still) most mental works a little volcano erupted... the sky was not the same... light had changed ... he painted not so much light but the border between things for me ..








Sun Setting over a Lake circa 1840 - Joseph Mallord William Turner



this is an image (his one) that for me clearly explores the relation between the light / air and water... where one ends and the other begins is only just being described in the detail (in physics) that he managed to hint at those years ago..

his practice was to work - push - experiment ... papers .. colours .. washes .... everything was used to get to the point of ...

well that is point - what we want to express to others and we want others to learn - think - read of not us but themselves..

thanks.
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  #100  
Old December 10th, 2011, 10:11 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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here is a same size detail from death Valley 3





death.valley.3 (Detail) - M Hampton


real wold work size here is 70 by 70 inches.

cheers
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  #101  
Old December 10th, 2011, 03:35 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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[QUOTE=Mark Hampton;123709][COLOR="Gray"]


well that is point - what we want to express to others and we want others to learn - think - read of not us but themselves..


Mark,

I think you've brought it back to the reading. Seems to me that there are two sides. This week I've struggled with the readings of multiple individuals (maybe it's the moon), who have looked at differant works and said "Every picture tells a story, and I just don't get the story!) I'm on the other side. That is, an object that comforts the "looker" into reading about themselves. I like what you said about Turner. To read not of us but of themselves. "Death.Valley does that for me. I know that when my reading becomes personal, it seems more important (to me).

I looked up and saw the full moon tonight, and in it's brillance, I forgot to ask what it meant.

70 X 70 would be enormous, even printing at 48 inches wide, I would have to piece it together. I sure would love to experience it at that scale!

I know others are lurking. . .they should join the conversation. . . scream aloud. . .

Bill
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  #102  
Old December 12th, 2011, 09:17 AM
Tracy Lebenzon Tracy Lebenzon is offline
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I've both enjoyed this thread and learned something that has been of interest to me for a while. One of the key elements discussed here is the use of a device to focus the viewer on something in the foreground and to use that as an apparatus to imply what is in the background, while optionally keeping the background somewhat out of focus.

Here is an example. This pre-dates this thread by a while.


In a Storm


I think this kind of device is one of the facilitators of lot of “impressionist” photography…
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  #103  
Old December 12th, 2011, 01:09 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Well then...

After the storm

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  #104  
Old December 12th, 2011, 02:51 PM
Tracy Lebenzon Tracy Lebenzon is offline
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Are you saying you can't see the trees?
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  #105  
Old December 12th, 2011, 04:10 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Are you saying you can't see the trees?
Jerome may well be saying that surfaces are scalable. nope that was me!

these two works above are beautiful in there own ways - Jerome has light and rhythm that is in Tracy's but the scale is different..

each directs the viewer along different paths ... from where I am people seem to find things that confirm what they belive to be..

bill in relation to the moon - its true so some extent ... we don't have to ask and we don't mostly ... but when we do it can be fun...








Grope For Luna

thanks for the additions and thoughts
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  #106  
Old December 12th, 2011, 10:33 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Are you saying you can't see the trees?
Are you saying you can't see the stone?
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  #107  
Old December 17th, 2011, 10:31 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Default Woman i have never met but photographed

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Lindsay Lohan - M Hampton

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  #108  
Old December 17th, 2011, 10:40 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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This is a surprise! Tell me, Mark, did you shoot a TV screen and move the camera?









Lindsay Lohan - M Hampton




There's a sense of action. Very little definition. I have to sit with this. If you wanted to paint this, would you introduce fine lines of texture of the nature that Turner used in his Sunset?

Asher

Asher
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  #109  
Old December 17th, 2011, 10:48 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Originally Posted by Bill McCarthy View Post
Ah Mark, but now you’ve added a new device.

First, I like “Core Sample Survey”. The intertwining of positive and negative space allows me to travel over a very shallow surface and the blurred edges (which for me are just a bit overdone) keep me centered within the square.
Explain the "Core Sample Survey", or didi I miss it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McCarthy View Post
But, the square for me is your new device. Its importance is that it allows the object itself to be directionless and requires the movement within to hold the space. In a way, a square or circular format kills the compositional elements of the object (it’s not horizontal or vertical) allowing the compositional reading to take place within the object.
But wouldn't a human face, a cat or a car immediately give orientation that would anchor the composition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McCarthy View Post
So I will add a fairly recent square. No grain was added, since the beach sand did that for me.



After the Rain, Caladesi Island


Bill,

I find this comfortable and interesting. We've been there in some quiet contemplative moment where we notice a tiny part of our world has some identity. I notice you have not blurred any edges nor added any vignetting or other devices to control eye movement of delegate importance. You've left everything even as delivered by the camera, it seems. Why's that?

Asher
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  #110  
Old December 17th, 2011, 11:23 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
This is a surprise! Tell me, Mark, did you shoot a TV screen and move the camera?









Lindsay Lohan - M Hampton




There's a sense of action. Very little definition. I have to sit with this. If you wanted to paint this, would you introduce fine lines of texture of the nature that Turner used in his Sunset?

Asher

Asher
Asher,

all the images in the "Woman i have never met but photographed" are reflections in windows. the idea is not to incorporate their likeness other than the one that pops into your head when you read their name.

the action is in the diagonal. miss Lohan doesn't seem to sit still to me..

these images are not going to be painted - they are as presented finished.

thanks for stopping by.

cheers
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  #111  
Old December 21st, 2011, 10:51 AM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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Asher, thanks for your comments and questions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Explain the "Core Sample Survey", or didi I miss it?



I was referring to the image post on page 5 of this thread. Sorry, I had left out the word surface from the title. I think Mark may have posted this or another image from this series in another thread on this site, core sample surface survey - M Hampton


But wouldn't a human face, a cat or a car immediately give orientation that would anchor the composition?

Yes, Asher, but I was talking about the compositional quality of the square Object), not the marks within or on the square. Most of us have become very complacent with the two options that our film experience gave us . . . Portrait or Landscape (I don’t own a Hasselblad yet). I know that we would expect that each component of what we explore would be “compositionally” compatible and realized in the creating or reading of the reading. So to me, “killing” the compositional elements of the object is not a bad thing (or good), it just neutralizes for me the boundaries of the object.



After the Rain, Caladesi Island


Bill,

I find this comfortable and interesting. We've been there in some quiet contemplative moment where we notice a tiny part of our world has some identity. I notice you have not blurred any edges nor added any vignetting or other devices to control eye movement of delegate importance. You've left everything even as delivered by the camera, it seems. Why's that?

Thanks again for your comments, I was able to pre visualize this fairly well; wanting a very surface focus, I went with a shallow depth of field, and worked with burning and dodging to play with the sand and guide the reader in, hopefully, a non-obtrusive way. Hope that doesn’t spoil it for you.

Bill

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  #112  
Old December 21st, 2011, 12:58 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Originally Posted by Asher kelman
Bill,

I find this comfortable and interesting. We've been there in some quiet contemplative moment where we notice a tiny part of our world has some identity. I notice you have not blurred any edges nor added any vignetting or other devices to control eye movement of delegate importance. You've left everything even as delivered by the camera, it seems. Why's that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McCarthy View Post

[B]Thanks again for your comments, I was able to pre visualize this fairly well; wanting a very surface focus, I went with a shallow depth of field, and worked with burning and dodging to play with the sand and guide the reader in, hopefully, a non-obtrusive way. Hope that doesn’t spoil it for you.

Bill[
Bill,

You are kind and helpful to share your work and how you envisioned and made the presentation. The shading is effective, especially the center.

I do not remark on such details in order to claim some better way of you making what you want. Rather, I love to know the process and some of the decisions. So, for example, it would be interesting to learn whether gentle shading of the periphery and corners in the classical manner, would add or in fact, detract from your intent. Again, I offer and claim no concept of what "should" be done, none whatsoever! After all your work is complete and provides a good experience. I'm just interested in how you might consider the changes I offer in light of your original intent and obvious competency in shading.

Asher
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  #113  
Old December 21st, 2011, 02:51 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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So, for example, it would be interesting to learn whether gentle shading of the periphery and corners in the classical manner, would add or in fact, detract from your intent.
It is a square format...
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  #114  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 03:03 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Default Extract from - The Great American Landscape:

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Half.Dome.4 - M Hampton





again our breath. the trace of our breath.
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  #115  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 03:54 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Tracy Lebenzon View Post
I've both enjoyed this thread and learned something that has been of interest to me for a while. One of the key elements discussed here is the use of a device to focus the viewer on something in the foreground and to use that as an apparatus to imply what is in the background, while optionally keeping the background somewhat out of focus.
I guess I can only answer for myself,

I use focus to push the mind that views the image where I want it to go im my work - what i may feel is important or what I may feel is not - but the act of forcing the reader may even have some meaning - for me that is.. front / back / side is only relevent to me within the work and only gets used as an expression of what ideas I am working with.

viewing (in real terms) work is as much a physical experance as mental. when I make my work I stand / sit / move and change - my ideal work station is standing..
my ideal image size would be immersive.

opps less sense on this post ... stop it !

ok
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  #116  
Old December 27th, 2011, 03:20 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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Bill,

You are kind and helpful to share your work and how you envisioned and made the presentation. The shading is effective, especially the center.

I do not remark on such details in order to claim some better way of you making what you want. Rather, I love to know the process and some of the decisions. So, for example, it would be interesting to learn whether gentle shading of the periphery and corners in the classical manner, would add or in fact, detract from your intent. Again, I offer and claim no concept of what "should" be done, none whatsoever! After all your work is complete and provides a good experience. I'm just interested in how you might consider the changes I offer in light of your original intent and obvious competency in shading.

Asher
Asher,

I appreciate any and all comments, and I what I really like about this thread (reading the reading), is that it seems so open to all ideas and moves us back and forth through that journey that leads us toward creation. To answer your question about shading of the periphery and corners . . . I always work the edges and corners so that the surface markings will visually move around yet be contained within. More often than not, in so many of my camera captures, the edges and corners can appear to be almost roadways away from the surface content, so active burning or dodging redefines the pathways and controls the interior. As I look now, both top corners and the bottom right corner of “After the Rain” were burned somewhat, while the bottom left corner seemed to hold its own with the “X” mark and slightly curved sea weed that points toward the yellow white shell. Often while I am working, I find that I am trying to hide the corners so that the surface content doesn’t fall off. You might argue that the linear content on the left side points off of the content area, but for me, the elegant curves softly moves around and to the right connecting with that slightly enhanced darkened area shooting out from the “L” shaped piece of sea weed. I feel that to go much darker would begin to distract and separate the corners from the interior; seeming to visually indicate a desire to hide or destroy them. In this case I felt that the object should remain a solid square and the surface should enhance and be a part of the square.

There is no right or wrong in these things, merely personal visions and personal views. I am honored that you have taken the time to look at this and question the process.

There is always the ability to change one’s mind, so tomorrow I may be looking from another side.

Thanks,
Bill
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  #117  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 09:12 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Default Woman i have never met but photographed







Grace Kelly - M Hampton

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  #118  
Old January 3rd, 2012, 02:34 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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Grace Kelly - M Hampton

What a great idea for a series, it could be endless. I particularly like the elegance of Grace Kelly, the beautiful layers and the visual barriers. Am I reading into the image because of your title? I also like the fact that your concept of "none existence" has a product. lately, for whatever reason, I find myself harping back to that old philosophical question "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" It is apparent through your concept, it does as long as people keep looking at your work (or not as the argument seemed to always revert). Very nice capture. As an aside, she and Sophia Lauren were always my favorites.

Made me remember a time when I was in Las Vegas and I got on an elevator that the comedian Bill Cosby was alone in. I reached out and shook his hand and said "I'm Bill, you probably don't remember me. . . we never met in Boston." It took him about 10 seconds before he realized we really never met. He had a good laugh and got off at the next floor.

Bill
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  #119  
Old January 3rd, 2012, 02:48 PM
Bill McCarthy Bill McCarthy is offline
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I’ve been building a new series called “Snowbrook, Beneath the Surface,” and it involves the natural layering of winter.



“Snowbrook, Beneath the Surface 1”



“Snowbrook, Beneath the Surface 4”
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  #120  
Old January 4th, 2012, 04:16 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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I’ve been building a new series called “Snowbrook, Beneath the Surface,” and it involves the natural layering of winter.



“Snowbrook, Beneath the Surface 1”



“Snowbrook, Beneath the Surface 4”
Bill,

“Snowbrook, Beneath the Surface 1”

the light is burned to the surface (there are so many layered) on this one for me - like After the Rain, Caladesi Island - my eye/mind search and I am moved around the work. focus / lights /tone and colour seem to be one in the whole.

what is in focus is the impression of the absent things on the right.

I need more time on 4 - i need more time is the war cry of the Scottish !

take care and thanks for posting and adding.

an after thought
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