Question: Professionals Only Please....

[ErikJonas]

First of all is there anyone here who sells there work in the higher end limited edition print market?....If not all else is irellivant...I think i know the answer to my question but might as well put it out there...See what other feed back i get....

[JimCollum]

I do, and I'm sure there are a number of others as well.

[ErikJonas]

Hi Jim....I didnt see anything on your web site that showed print sales in terms of what i am asking about which is in the more high end limited edition prints not like stock photography that kind of thing....Prints ranging from $100 to $25,000 is what I have in mind....

Anyway my question is this and this comes down to preferance but.....

I have shot pretty heavy for the last 3 years plus. Built up a good size collection of limited edition prints. I also have a run of open edition prints. I have about 65 Fine Art images which bring a higher price then a regular sceenic image...And I have about 400 limited edition sceenic prints....

I'm just trying to decide at what point do i back off on the shooting and focus on building up my inventory of what i have edited and work more on sales....I have been going by the thinking that the more images i have the more chance i have of having that one print someone cant live without.

I shot pretty hard core the last few weeks of the year and have a number of images waiting to be edited....I know at some point i need to focus on sales. I have a good selection of prints..My most exspensive print is one thats only 7 being printed of it...Its a Fine Art image and that one is $3,200 I kind of feel like i need to have more really limited prints like that in my line up....

Anyway...This is all just personal preferance but thought i'd see what kind of input if any that i got...Since just you responded Jim i think thats all the input i will get but thankyou for responding........Erik....

[JimCollum]

My print sales have been thru galleries (mostly thru Susan Spiritus). The only closed edition prints I have are the 16x20 Platinum, and I sell in edition of 10 ($1200 each). My 11x14 platinums sell for $600, and they're an open edition.

I was just at Photo LA, and was talking to Hiroshi Watanabe and Susan Burnstein (both 'A' list in the photo gallery/art market). They just released a limited series (edition of 3) of 30x30" prints. Initial prints were going from $6500-$8000 range, with the last one ending up about $8-10,000 range.). The photographer actually gets about %50 of that, the rest goes to the gallery.

My site right now is focussed on architectural, which is the business I'm working on to support myself (there's only a handful of photographers who can fully support themselves on print sales alone). Once I get that fully functional, the prints sales section will be added.

Originally Posted by ErikJonas

Hi Jim....I didnt see anything on your web site that showed print sales in terms of what i am asking about which is in the more high end limited edition prints not like stock photography that kind of thing....Prints ranging from $100 to $25,000 is what I have in mind....

Anyway my question is this and this comes down to preferance but.....

I have shot pretty heavy for the last 3 years plus. Built up a good size collection of limited edition prints. I also have a run of open edition prints. I have about 65 Fine Art images which bring a higher price then a regular sceenic image...And I have about 400 limited edition sceenic prints....

I'm just trying to decide at what point do i back off on the shooting and focus on building up my inventory of what i have edited and work more on sales....I have been going by the thinking that the more images i have the more chance i have of having that one print someone cant live without.

I shot pretty hard core the last few weeks of the year and have a number of images waiting to be edited....I know at some point i need to focus on sales. I have a good selection of prints..My most exspensive print is one thats only 7 being printed of it...Its a Fine Art image and that one is $3,200 I kind of feel like i need to have more really limited prints like that in my line up....

Anyway...This is all just personal preferance but thought i'd see what kind of input if any that i got...Since just you responded Jim i think thats all the input i will get but thankyou for responding........Erik....

[ErikJonas]

Well i was not in doubt Jim i was just saying i did'nt see anything on your web site that indicated any print sales thats all. My prices of my prints are reasonable. Tend to be on the low side.

Would you by chance be firmiliar with Peter Lik? Now thats some pricey stuff.

So what would your answer to my question be?

And 50% is a standard gallery percentage...Publishers however are not so generous. And as far as galleries go theres more then a few bad experiences to be told.If you've not had any bad experiences you'd be one of the lucky ones...

$600 for a open edition print...I have never heard of a open edition costing so much.

I unfortunately live in a Walmart area...People where i live do not know what art cost,they want to pay $40.00 for a picture framed. A print at more then that cost, for just the print, they are shocked.

[Nicolas Claris]

Originally Posted by ErikJonas

Well i was not in doubt Jim i was just saying i did'nt see anything on your web site that indicated any print sales thats all.

I haven't seen any on your website either !

[JimCollum]

I don't think it's smart to back off on shooting ( i don't think i could do that even if i wanted to...)... but not necessarily to increase inventory, but to develop vision.

As far as limiting editions.. that's a recent thing in the photographic art world... and really only important if you are actually considered collectable. this usually means that there's serious gallery representation, and are viewed by the 'art' market as being a collectible artist.

This market is defined by the members of AIPAD ( http://www.aipad.com/members/ ). Unless you have work being sought by these galleries, having a limited edition is really more of a marketing decision, rather than a investment decision by the customer.

As far as prices go.. (limited ones), I'm looking at Ryuijie's site, who's considered 'collectable' and represented by a number of these galleries. His silver prints are priced at $600-$850 for 11x14's, $800-1400 for 16x20's, and $1200-$2200 for 20x24's. His platinum prints are higher (but 4x5" are $500). $600 for an 11x14 platinum print isn't considered as 'high'.. probably middle of the road.

Although i have work represented and sold by a gallery on that list, i'm not collectible. Most of my sales end up in corporate offices, law offices, etc (an amazing number of the collectible artists.. george tice, roman loranc, etc also get sold in this manner.. i'm amazed at the money companies are willing to spend to decorate).

Originally Posted by ErikJonas

Well i was not in doubt Jim i was just saying i did'nt see anything on your web site that indicated any print sales thats all. My prices of my prints are reasonable. Tend to be on the low side.

Would you by chance be firmiliar with Peter Lik? Now thats some pricey stuff.

So what would your answer to my question be?

And 50% is a standard gallery percentage...Publishers however are not so generous. And as far as galleries go theres more then a few bad experiences to be told.If you've not had any bad experiences you'd be one of the lucky ones...

$600 for a open edition print...I have never heard of a open edition costing so much.

I unfortunately live in a Walmart area...People where i live do not know what art cost,they want to pay $40.00 for a picture framed. A print at more then that cost, for just the print, they are shocked.

[JimCollum]

some scans of platinum prints that i've sold a number of for $600 each (7x17 & 11x14)

Originally Posted by ErikJonas

Well i was not in doubt Jim i was just saying i did'nt see anything on your web site that indicated any print sales thats all. My prices of my prints are reasonable. Tend to be on the low side.

Would you by chance be firmiliar with Peter Lik? Now thats some pricey stuff.

So what would your answer to my question be?

And 50% is a standard gallery percentage...Publishers however are not so generous. And as far as galleries go theres more then a few bad experiences to be told.If you've not had any bad experiences you'd be one of the lucky ones...

$600 for a open edition print...I have never heard of a open edition costing so much.

I unfortunately live in a Walmart area...People where i live do not know what art cost,they want to pay $40.00 for a picture framed. A print at more then that cost, for just the print, they are shocked.

[Cem_Usakligil]

Originally Posted by ErikJonas

....I have shot pretty heavy for the last 3 years plus. Built up a good size collection of limited edition prints. I also have a run of open edition prints. I have about 65 Fine Art images which bring a higher price then a regular sceenic image...And I have about 400 limited edition sceenic prints....

I'm just trying to decide at what point do i back off on the shooting and focus on building up my inventory of what i have edited and work more on sales....I have been going by the thinking that the more images i have the more chance i have of having that one print someone cant live without.

I shot pretty hard core the last few weeks of the year and have a number of images waiting to be edited....I know at some point i need to focus on sales. I have a good selection of prints..My most exspensive print is one thats only 7 being printed of it...Its a Fine Art image and that one is $3,200 I kind of feel like i need to have more really limited prints like that in my line up........

Erik,

This statement above regarding the limited prints of $3,200 is implausible. Only last week you were talking about picking up used cans because they deliver $ 0,35 per pound collected, money which you could put to good use. What evidence have you got to show us that you actually are a pro photographer as you pretend to be?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by JimCollum

some scans of platinum prints that i've sold a number of for $600 each (7x17 & 11x14)

Lovely images Jim, thanks for sharing! It's refreshing to actually see some images, rather than just talking about them. Too bad we cannot get the quality of a good platinum print on our LCDs, but your prints look worth every penny they may cost a buyer.

Cheers,
Bart

[Ken Tanaka]

Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf

Lovely images Jim, thanks for sharing! It's refreshing to actually see some images, rather than just talking about them. Too bad we cannot get the quality of a good platinum print on our LCDs, but your prints look worth every penny they may cost a buyer.

Cheers,
Bart

Indeed, they're superb. Don't I recall, Jim, that you documented how you produced the tonality on those prints quite a while ago somewhere?

Regarding the main topic of this thread, Erik, I strongly recommend that you make an effort to venture beyond your self-described "Wal-Mart land" and beyond your computer keyboard, too. The art world into which you threaten to venture is vast, complex, and far more sophisticated than you seem to imagine. The photo segment of that world is even more arcane and insecure, relying heavily on pedigrees and precedents for valuations. I've not seen much of your work, since you have no online representation, but what I have seen suggests that your pricing speculation is pure fantasy. It's just neither technically nor intellectually up to par.

I don't know if you live near a big city but if you do I suggest that you carve out time to just browse some well-named art galleries and at least one art museum to help get you at least oriented to the subject.

I do not intend meanness with my remarks, just constructive frankness.

[Asher Kelman]

Here's a point of view worth pondering: we have, through some quark of a kindness factor in this community, listened and catered to the implausible and ended up with this fine work!

There are not a lot of photographers who can deliver platinum prints and then with craft and esthetic interest that's stands so high above what we generally see. For the un-initiated, this set of platinum prints is the end result of a dual process of platinum printing and also pigment ink printing. These pictures are merely scans and yet they show a measure of the quality that's reached.

I'm delighted!

Originally Posted by JimCollum

some scans of platinum prints that i've sold a number of for $600 each

(7x17 & 11x14)

Jm,

I can add that your pictures would go for more in the Rental and Sales Gallery of the Los angeles county Museum of Art. Unfortunately, you are not domiciled in this area. They do sell a lot of pictures and photography is now popular, especially large pieces.

Asher

[Cem_Usakligil]

Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf

Lovely images Jim, thanks for sharing! It's refreshing to actually see some images, rather than just talking about them. Too bad we cannot get the quality of a good platinum print on our LCDs, but your prints look worth every penny they may cost a buyer.

Originally Posted by Ken Tanaka

Indeed, they're superb. Don't I recall, Jim, that you documented how you produced the tonality on those prints quite a while ago somewhere?

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

Here's a point of view worth pondering: we have, through some quark of a kindness factor in this community listened and catered to the implausible and ended up with this fine work!

There are not a lot of photographers who can deliver platinum prints and then with craft and esthetic interest that's stands so high above what we generally see.

I'm delighted!

Hi Jim,

I can only add my full vote to what has already been said by Bart, Ken and Asher before. Excellent prints, thanks for sharing.

Cheers,

[ErikJonas]

Ken....Thanks for the frankness which does a person much more benefit then endless compliments.I think i am getting this posting thing down Ken which will allow me to post more of my work...Such as below

[JimCollum]

thank you all for the kind words. I really only meant the images as an introduction to Erik. The original threads are at

http://openphotographyforums.com/for...ead.php?t=9576

and

http://openphotographyforums.com/for...ead.php?t=9584

I should also clarify... The galleries I mentioned aren't the only ones to define photographic art.. they just dictate the collectibility of it. There are excellent/world class photographers, producing stunning/emotional/provocative images... that aren't in these galleries. A majority of people buying photographic art, do so because the image moves them in some manner. After buying, that image will adorn their home/office wall. There is very little actual intent of buying it to sell it someday for a profit. Even though that image might be 'limited', the result will probably only be the impression to the buyer that they own something 'rare'... but in actuality.. if put up for sale (usually ebay now).. the price they'd get for it would be less than what they bought it for.

The collectors market is different. Even though they might buy the image for the same aesthetic reason.. that they're moved in some way by it... there is an understanding between the gallery/photographer and buyer that the price will never decrease. The limiting of an edition in this case is to ensure that the market for a given image is closed.... And the demand would cause an increase in the price. This is a rarified market.. one that often makes little sense. It's a difficult market to break into, and once there, has unwritten 'rules' about the pricing and venue that the work appears in. (ie.. the work will *never*/ has *never* be seen in an art/craft fair, the photographer will *never* sell an image for less than the gallery price, etc)

[Ken Tanaka]

Appending to Jim's remarks... some folks might find it interesting to browse through Philips de Pury's latest photo auction, held November, 2009. Philips is among the world's most prominent art and photo auction houses. There were some excellent pieces in this auction, perhaps the most renowned being lot #17: Richard Avedon's "Natasha Kinski and the Serpent" which sold for just over $80,000 (compared to a high estimate of $55,000!). Note that this is print 80 of 200 and that it's been auctioned twice since 2003.

Since Philips de Pury generously puts its auction lots and results publicly online I thought it might add some useful information to this thread.

[JimCollum]

an excellent resource to get an idea of where your work might fit is Mary Virginia Swanson ( http://www.mvswanson.com/ ). She understands the photographic market place (not just art), and gives a very honest view of your work. she won't pull punches, but will try to point you to resources and help outline steps in what to do to get to your goal.

[ErikJonas]

Thanks Jim and your works outstanding all 4 images are perfect...If i had to pick a favorite it would be the 4th posted.