What Background: White or light charcoal or something else? - Page 3

Bart_van_der_Wolf · #61 January 13th, 2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Kerr

These are of course the reason why major standard color spaces contemplate a certain surround ambiance for viewing (although there are a number of paradoxes in those specifications).

In any case, by way of general reference, the sRGB standard contemplates a delivered white point illuminance of 80 cd/m^2 with a surround of reflectance 0.20 illuminated at 200 lx.

If we work through the photometric equations, that comes out to a surround luminance of 12.7 cd/m^2, or about 16% of the white point luminance.

That would be a surround at about RGB 112,112,112, about like so:

Quote:

But the overall environment illuminance is also a factor - not just the luminance of the immediate surround.

Indeed, but there is some mix of physics and psychology (= Human visual system) involved as well:
http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/lum_dynsimcontrast/index.html
and
http://web.mit.edu/persci/gaz/gaz-teaching/flash/koffka-movie.swf

These effects already take place at small areas of an image.

Another thing is that it's hard to make a nice looking page based on an RGB 112, 112, 112 background, because text will always be low contrast unless done in screaming colors, and viewing conditions (ambient light level) vary.

Cheers,
Bart

Doug Kerr · #62 January 13th, 2011, 01:37 PM

Hi, Bart,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf

Indeed, but there is some mix of physics and psychology (= Human visual system) involved as well . . .

These effects already take place at small areas of an image.

Indeed. I don't know much about those things, but I know you have been well involved in such considerations.

Quote:

Another thing is that it's hard to make a nice looking page based on an RGB 112, 112, 112 background, because text will always be low contrast unless done in screaming colors, and viewing conditions (ambient light level) vary.

Oh, indeed.

I did not mean to suggest a page background of RGB 112,112,112 - but I was just interested in how this fits in with the color space spec norms for "viewing environment".

Best regards,

Doug

Asher Kelman · #63 January 13th, 2011, 05:48 PM

Well, why not look at text on this b.g.?

See what you come up with.

Asher

Doug Kerr · #64 January 13th, 2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

Well, why not look at text on this b.g.?

See what you come up with.

Who, me?

This one?

Best regards,

Doug

Asher Kelman · #65 January 13th, 2011, 09:44 PM

Thanks, Doug,

Most helpful and a surprise to me! Both the yellow/gold ( ~in the family of OPF colors) and the Aegian sea blue seem pretty comfortable to read. What do others think? Could you also try small type faces and see how it works under duress!

It's good to see experimentation.

Asher

Doug Kerr · #66 January 14th, 2011, 08:37 AM

Hi,, Asher,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

Thanks, Doug,

Most helpful and a surprise to me! Both the yellow/gold ( ~in the family of OPF colors) and the Aegian sea blue seem pretty comfortable to read. What do others think? Could you also try small type faces and see how it works under duress!

Yes, and this text was laid in on an image editor. I need to find out how to insinuate a BG in some HTML and have the text actually rendered as it would be on the forum.

Cem: can you give me some pointers on that.

Perhaps I will just link to a page I will mount on my site.

Note in fact that the on-screen font size varies with the "zoom" setting of the viewer's browser.

Best regards,

Doug

Cem_Usakligil · #67 January 14th, 2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Kerr

Yes, and this text was laid in on an image editor. I need to find out how to insinuate a BG in some HTML and have the text actually rendered as it would be on the forum.

Cem: can you give me some pointers on that.

Hi Doug,

Sorry I must have missed this one earlier. You could use the following HTML code to change the BG and the text colors in your web page.

HTML Code:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<title>Untitled Document</title>
</head>

<body style="background:#707070; font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:12px">

<p style="color: #FFFFFF;">This background is 112,112,112.</p><br />


<p style="color: #000000;">This is text in 0,0,0.</p>

<p style="color: #FFFFFF;">This is text in 255,255,255.</p>

<p style="color: #FFFF00;">This is text in 255,255,0.</p>

<p style="color: #00FFFF;">This is text in 0,255,255.</p>

</body>
</html>

The resulting web page looks like this.

HTH.

Doug Kerr · #68 January 14th, 2011, 04:09 PM

Hi, Cem,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil

Hi Doug,

Sorry I must have missed this one earlier. You could use the following HTML code to change the BG and the text colors in your web page.

Code:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<title>Untitled Document</title>
</head>

<body style="background:#707070; font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:12px">

<p style="color: #FFFFFF;">This background is 112,112,112.</p><br />


<p style="color: #000000;">This is text in 0,0,0.</p>

<p style="color: #FFFFFF;">This is text in 255,255,255.</p>

<p style="color: #FFFF00;">This is text in 255,255,0.</p>

<p style="color: #00FFFF;">This is text in 0,255,255.</p>

</body>
</html>

The resulting web page looks like this.

Thanks. I more or less knew that, but it was helpful to be reminded of the exact details.

Actually what I meant (and I see I wasn't too clear about that) is, is there some way to emded HTML in a post itself to do that?

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug

Cem_Usakligil · #69 January 14th, 2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Kerr

...Actually what I meant (and I see I wasn't too clear about that) is, is there some way to emded HTML in a post itself to do that?

Ah, I kind of suspected that but I chose to answer the easier option ;-).
Well, executing custom html code from within a post is not possible. If it were so, it would become a security breach. As you know, one can change the color of the fonts using the preset palette but not the background.

Cheers,

Doug Kerr · #70 January 14th, 2011, 09:40 PM

Hi, Cem,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil

Ah, I kind of suspected that but I chose to answer the easier option ;-).
Well, executing custom html code from within a post is not possible.

Well, that's what I figgered.

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug

fahim mohammed · #71 April 9th, 2011, 11:25 AM

I feel a neutral gray or dark background would help in displaying the images posted better.

The current almost white ( computer paper color ) to me is atrocious on the eyes and the image borders.

This has been my experience based on the use of other forums.

What do the members think?

Doug Kerr · #72 April 9th, 2011, 12:28 PM

Hi, Fahim,

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahim mohammed

I feel a neutral gray or dark background would help in displaying the images posted better.

The current almost white ( computer paper color ) to me is atrocious on the eyes and the image borders.

This has been my experience based on the use of other forums.

What do the members think?

Do you not find the gray background "style" option useful? (I don't care for it myself.)

Best regards,

Doug

fahim mohammed · #73 April 9th, 2011, 12:55 PM

Hi Doug,

First, I have to confess that I did not know about the options. Now I have tried them.

To be honest, I prefer the Grey bg, when the image is displayed but the lettering colors seem like so much of a mishmash.

The grey bg is tiring my eyes fast.

I don't know. Scientific answer...some other forums present a very comfortable display palette to me.

I am reverting to the defaut.

Thanks.

Asher Kelman · #74 April 9th, 2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahim mohammed

Hi Doug,

First, I have to confess that I did not know about the options. Now I have tried them.

To be honest, I prefer the Grey bg, when the image is displayed but the lettering colors seem like so much of a mishmash.

The grey bg is tiring my eyes fast.

I don't know. Scientific answer...some other forums present a very comfortable display palette to me.

I am reverting to the defaut.

Thanks.

Hi Fahim,

So you see it's not easy! Look above at post # 26, my mock-up of a dark background, and tell me how readable that is to you? We need to design the artistic identity of the page to be tolerant of the change in background. Nicolas Claris' design has worked well for us! However, it is not easy on the eyes with a background foreign to it's original esthetics. We love top have advice and opinions here as a change involves considerable effort. However, when the time comes, we'll do it with care, respecting what we already have.

Asher

fahim mohammed · #75 April 9th, 2011, 01:34 PM

I looked at post #26. Some images look very good there. Not all.

As you said, I guess I can survive with the default.

Till I am here, that is.

Regards.

Asher Kelman · #76 April 9th, 2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahim mohammed

I looked at post #26. Some images look very good there. Not all.

As you said, I guess I can survive with the default.

Till I am here, that is.

Regards.

Can you specify where it does not work?

Asher

fahim mohammed · #77 April 9th, 2011, 02:29 PM

Asher, please understand that this is purely my subjective opinion.

In post #26, #5 does not seem to me to go very well with that bg. #1 is not bad.
#2,3,4 appear, to me, to be a better viewing experience than on the default bg.

I really do not want to seem to insist that that should be the bg.

There are many other forum members, and then there is the issue as I saw of the grey bg and the lettering. I understand that there might not be an ideal solution, within aesthetic, cost, time, technical constraints. Also most members ( if they ever voice an opinion in this matter ) might not want to change anything. Fine.

I am just one forum member voicing a subjective opinion.
I have expressed my opinion , and I shall let the matter rest there.

Regards.

Asher Kelman · #78 April 9th, 2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahim mohammed

Asher, please understand that this is purely my subjective opinion.

In post #26, #5 does not seem to me to go very well with that bg. #1 is not bad.
#2,3,4 appear, to me, to be a better viewing experience than on the default bg.

Fahim,

Thanks for being so sporting and sharing your impressions, however restrained and non-demanding. Despite your reluctance to champion any change to satisfy your own needs, your contribution will help me understand better the complexity of reader experience. We need to be nudged to get things right in the next big update of the forum.

No one should be concerned lest we act on their one personal POV to the detriment of everyone else! This feedback is only used in a gestalt fashion with many views taken as a whole. So the more replies, the better our understanding of what we might do.

Asher

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