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  #1  
Old August 26th, 2010, 05:42 PM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Default New Canon Lens/Camera announcements

Hi folks,

Canon has introduced a number of new lenses and a camera (60D) prior to the 2010 Photokina event in Cologne Germany, which takes place end of September 2010.

Here are the press releases.

So far it's mainly high end (L) telephoto lenses and new extenders (and a fish-eye zoom), but there's probably more to come.

It's obvious that they are preparing for a serious role in Video and Sports as (leading) supplier of photographic/video equipment.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #2  
Old August 26th, 2010, 08:07 PM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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The prices are somewhat heart-stopping. But then the yen is at all-time high, is it not?

Having just sprung for a new 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, I'm very interested in the new extenders... but that's about all I might be able to afford. :-(

Nill
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  #3  
Old August 26th, 2010, 09:28 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nill Toulme View Post
The prices are somewhat heart-stopping. But then the yen is at all-time high, is it not?

Having just sprung for a new 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, I'm very interested in the new extenders... but that's about all I might be able to afford. :-(

Nill
Nill,

Did you notice anything much appreciably different with your pictures with the 70-200 2.8 L IS II? Does it snap to focus better or the pictures are simply cleaner with more contrast or it's just nice to have the best? I'm toying with the idea but haven't taken the plunge!

Asher
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  #4  
Old August 26th, 2010, 09:32 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Hi folks,

Canon has introduced a number of new lenses and a camera (60D) prior to the 2010 Photokina event in Cologne Germany, which takes place end of September 2010.

Here are the press releases.

So far it's mainly high end (L) telephoto lenses and new extenders (and a fish-eye zoom), but there's probably more to come.
Bart,

Just in time! I was about to buy the Sigma 8mm f 2.8 Fisheye. So this means waiting until January 2011, but then a zoom fisheye is going to be fun for doing walk through VR presentation of architecture and be able to use the right focal length for the size of the space.

So what do we lose creatively not having the f2.8? What creative uses require that aperture in an 8 mm zoom? It's not as if there might be much selective focus!

Asher
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  #5  
Old August 27th, 2010, 04:46 AM
Paul Bestwick Paul Bestwick is offline
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well I trust you have full frame Asher, cos that is where it will achieve full potential. Can't wait to get one and stick it on my 1DS3...
As far as losing 2.8 and its effect on creativity. That is not really relevant as this is a SUPER wide angle.
Huge depth of field.
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  #6  
Old August 27th, 2010, 06:21 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Nill,

Did you notice anything much appreciably different with your pictures with the 70-200 2.8 L IS II? Does it snap to focus better or the pictures are simply cleaner with more contrast or it's just nice to have the best? I'm toying with the idea but haven't taken the plunge!

Asher
Haven't even really used it yet other than the traditional first few snaps of the cat. I bought it on the strength of the uniformly stellar reviews, reports that it takes TC's well (unlike its predecessor), and the fact that while the previous model has served me well for a number of years, I've just never been crazy about it. The new TC's announced yesterday up the ante as well.

Nill
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  #7  
Old August 27th, 2010, 08:03 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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I'll be anxious to learn of the impact of the new Canon approach to focal length extenders (often, but inappropriately, called teleconverters - happily, not by Canon).

By way of background:

In the previous units, the extender (with simple electrical indications on the three special interface contacts found only on extender-aware lenses) advised the lens that it was in place and whether it had magnfiication 1.4 or 2.0 (the only two values that could be conveyed).

The lens, then:

Reported focal lengths as they would be for the "composite lens" (1.4 or 2.0 times the focal length of the lens proper).
Reported apertures as they would be for the "composite lens" (f-number 1.4 or 2.0 times the f-number of the lens proper).
Interpreted aperture commands as they would apply to the composite lens (setting the aperture of the lens proper to an f-number 1/1.4 or 1/2 that in the command).
Adopt new tables of such things as focus search speed as a function of focal length setting.

All communication between the body and the lens passed transparently through the extender (the "normal" interface leads just being carried through the extenber without intervention).

It is not known (to me) whether the lens advises the body of the presence of an extender, or merely conducts the charade in silence. The extender does not advise the body of its presence.

Evidently, the new series of the extenders ("III") have embedded microprocessors, and presumably intervene in the bothway communication between the lens proper and the body. We do not yet know whether they also utilize the three special contacts to give the traditional primitive notification of their presence to the lens.

It will be interesting to hear what advantages this new (certainly more sophisticated) approach brings us.

It would certainly seem to offer the possibility of extenders with different magnification ration than 1.4 and 2.0. Whether such would be practical, given constraints on AF functionality at smaller apertures for the composite lens, is another question altogether.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #8  
Old August 27th, 2010, 09:57 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Just wanted to clarify that I use "TC" as shorthand for "focal length extender." ;-)

Nill
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  #9  
Old August 27th, 2010, 10:59 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Nill,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nill Toulme View Post
Just wanted to clarify that I use "TC" as shorthand for "focal length extender."
And a perfectly useful one it is (like many "arbitrary" identifiers)!

Best regards,

Doug
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  #10  
Old August 27th, 2010, 03:36 PM
Bob Latham Bob Latham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post

Did you notice anything much appreciably different with your pictures with the 70-200 2.8 L IS II? Does it snap to focus better or the pictures are simply cleaner with more contrast or it's just nice to have the best? I'm toying with the idea but haven't taken the plunge!

Asher
Asher,

I changed out my MkI for the MkII a couple of months back so can give an opinion based on a few outings.
Firstly, I have to say that all my serious stuff is done with primes and the odd outing with a zoom is only when I haven't been to the location before and not sure what to expect (ie, casual visits to zoos or street locations for candids). I've had all four previous incarnations of the 70-200 and still had the two IS versions prior to getting the MkII.

So, my take on it.....
The naked lens on a crop body and I think you'd be pushed to tell them apart. The corners are noticeably better on my 1DsMkIII but the real improvement is seen when paired up with the 2x converter....it's a very viable 400/5.6 although not with the ultimate clarity of the prime. Focus isn't as snappy as the 135/2 (but the focus limiter gets it closer) and bokeh doesn't threaten the 85/1.2 (hardly a surprise) but my 200/2.8 is now looking a little orphaned.

The thing that impressed me most was really just an indulgent test....stacked 2x converters giving 800mm f/11. Whilst I'd never claim to want to use it in anger, the centre frame was really pretty impressive and it was possible to pick out the thread detail on a rusty bolt at 35m (manually focussed with Liveview in good lighting).

Bob
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  #11  
Old August 27th, 2010, 05:42 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Latham View Post
The naked lens on a crop body and I think you'd be pushed to tell them apart. The corners are noticeably better on my 1DsMkIII but the real improvement is seen when paired up with the 2x converter....it's a very viable 400/5.6 although not with the ultimate clarity of the prime. Focus isn't as snappy as the 135/2 (but the focus limiter gets it closer) and bokeh doesn't threaten the 85/1.2 (hardly a surprise) but my 200/2.8 is now looking a little orphaned.

The thing that impressed me most was really just an indulgent test....stacked 2x converters giving 800mm f/11. Whilst I'd never claim to want to use it in anger, the centre frame was really pretty impressive and it was possible to pick out the thread detail on a rusty bolt at 35m (manually focussed with Liveview in good lighting).
I'd so love to see the results! This is impressive. I work with one 5DII in a Sound blimp and so would love to be able to get clear picture with a 2x extender of individual orchestra players from 50-200 feet during the performance. A range of 140 to 400 mm is deal for that, but even the x1.4 extended, albeit version I only gives "good" not excellent images.

So, your findings will be really well appreciated.

Asher
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  #12  
Old August 29th, 2010, 02:36 AM
Nigel Allan Nigel Allan is offline
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I am not a Canon owner, but am naturally curious to see what developments they make in their range. What I can't fathom is 1) the nomenclature of the 7D and how it fits in with their range and b) why they bothered to introduce the 60D when it is almost identical to the 7D except for a repositionable LCD screen (give or take). In fact according to Canon's website, if you compare models, the 7D is actually superior in many areas, not the least in its build quality with magnesium alloy instead of plastic. Am I missing something?

http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/comp...s/digital_slr/
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  #13  
Old August 29th, 2010, 02:49 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Allan View Post
I am not a Canon owner, but am naturally curious to see what developments they make in their range. What I can't fathom is 1) the nomenclature of the 7D and how it fits in with their range and b) why they bothered to introduce the 60D when it is almost identical to the 7D except for a repositionable LCD screen (give or take). In fact according to Canon's website, if you compare models, the 7D is actually superior in many areas, not the least in its build quality with magnesium alloy instead of plastic. Am I missing something?

http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/comp...s/digital_slr/
Nigel,

The 60D is a beefed up Rebel. The 7D is a more durable waterproofed camera able to servie better as a professional hardworking tool.

Still, given the pricing, I'm considering buying several Ti2 cameras for video to supplement the 5DII and use as backup while selling my more professional 1DII! In a way, then, the fact that the camera is not so robust might not matter. One just disposes of them and updates them every year.

After all, for the price of a 1DII one can get 7 D60's! So unless one really needs the advanced tracking and frame rate and rainproofing, almost everything can be done with the more modest cameras, LOL. However, when the light is dim and the action fast, I'll reach for the 1D Mark IV!

I'm starting to think of the lens collection being more critical than the camera body!

Asher
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  #14  
Old August 29th, 2010, 07:57 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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An apparent curious difference in functionality between the EOS 60D and the 7D (discerned by parsing of the asterisks in the table of specifications in the DPR preview) is this:

In the 7D, the onboard flash unit can be used as a master in the Canon wireless flash control system, apparently with the full range of flexibility (as if a Speedlite 580EX II were used as the master).
In the 60D, the onboard flash unit can be used as a master in the Canon wireless flash control system, but without the ability to separately control the slave flash units in distinct groups.

It sort of reminds me of the Digital Rebel (EOS 300D) days, where certain functionalities were rather arbitrarily suppressed (evidently at the 11th hour before release) so this "3-digit" machine did not compete so well with the EOS 10D.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #15  
Old August 29th, 2010, 11:28 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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One of the most notable of which cripplings was that it was virtually impossible to use for even the most casual sports photography...

Nill
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  #16  
Old August 29th, 2010, 01:08 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Nill,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nill Toulme View Post
One of the most notable of which cripplings was that it was virtually impossible to use for even the most casual sports photography...
Indeed.

Some improvement was able to be made with the installation of the Russian "Wasiaware" (as we did here).

Seems somehow a million years ago!

Best regards,

Doug
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  #17  
Old August 29th, 2010, 03:00 PM
Nigel Allan Nigel Allan is offline
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I guess Rebel is the USA name for the 50D, right? I imagine the 60D is the successor to the 50D cropped sensor model - so far so good.

BUT it seems almost identical in specs to the 7D ...yet the 7D nomenclature doesn't fit with Canon's pattern since the single digit 1D series and 5D series are all full frame, yet the 7D is cropped.

I am just trying to figure out what their strategy or logic is to their range when single digits names are full frame yet the 7D is cropped, and the 'new' double digit successor to the 50D cropped sensor is already in existence in the 7D
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  #18  
Old August 29th, 2010, 03:23 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Nigel,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Allan View Post
I guess Rebel is the USA name for the 50D, right?
No.

Rebel is a specific EOS film camera. Digital Rebel is the model known outside the USA as the 300D (2003). Many newer "4-digit" and "3-digit" digital models, in the US, have names of "Digital Rebel" or, more recently, "Rebel" plus some silly alphanumeric group beginning with "X" or, more recently, "T". It is dumb as hell.

But the "2-digit" and "1-digit" cameras do not have "cute" names in the US - they are called here by their real names.

Quote:
I imagine the 60D is the successor to the 50D cropped sensor model - so far so good. BUT it seems almost identical in specs to the 7D ...yet the 7D nomenclature doesn't fit with Canon's pattern since the single digit 1D series and 5D series are all full frame, yet the 7D is cropped.
Not so - the 1D series has a smaller sensor than full-frame 35-mm. The 1Ds series and the 5D series have a full-frame 35-mm size sensor.

Quote:
I am just trying to figure out what their strategy or logic is to their range when single digits names are full frame yet the 7D is cropped, and the 'new' double digit successor to the 50D cropped sensor is already in existence in the 7D
Ah, yes, the mind of Canon!

The actual taxonomy is more about "status tier" than format size. Cameras with one-digit numbers are "higher" in status than those with "two-digit numbers", which are higher in status than those with three-digit numbers, which are higher in status than those with four-digit numbers. But in the one-digit tier, those with smaller one-digit numbers (e.g., "1") are higher in status than those with larger one-digit numbers (e.g., "5"), which are higher in status than those with even larger one digit numbers (e.g., "7").

It's sort of like vanity license plates in the one-digit tier.

But within the two-digit tier, larger numbers are newer. Also within the three-digit tier, larger numbers (non-US notation) are newer. And that may well follow in the four-digit tier.

Then of course there is the curious matter of the very old D30 (2000) and the newer 30D (2006).

As I said, ah, yes, the mind of Canon.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #19  
Old August 29th, 2010, 03:38 PM
Nigel Allan Nigel Allan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Hi, Nigel,

No.

Rebel is a specific EOS film camera. Digital Rebel is the model known outside the USA as the 300D (2003). Many newer "4-digit" and "3-digit" digital models, in the US, have names of "Digital Rebel" or, more recently, "Rebel" plus some silly alphanumeric group beginning with "X" or, more recently, "T". It is dumb as hell.

But the "2-digit" and "1-digit" cameras do not have "cute" names in the US - they are called here by their real names.


Not so - the 1D series has a smaller sensor than full-frame 35-mm. The 1Ds series and the 5D series have a full-frame 35-mm size sensor.


Ah, yes, the mind of Canon!

The actual taxonomy is more about "status tier" than format size. Cameras with one-digit numbers are "higher" in status than those with "two-digit numbers", which are higher in status than those with three-digit numbers, which are higher in status than those with four-digit numbers. But in the one-digit tier, those with smaller one-digit numbers (e.g., "1") are higher in status than those with larger one-digit numbers (e.g., "5"), which are higher in status than those with even larger one digit numbers (e.g., "7").

It's sort of like vanity license plates in the one-digit tier.

But within the two-digit tier, larger numbers are newer. Also within the three-digit tier, larger numbers (non-US notation) are newer. And that may well follow in the four-digit tier.

Then of course there is the curious matter of the very old D30 (2000) and the newer 30D (2006).

As I said, ah, yes, the mind of Canon.

Best regards,

Doug
I think I'll, er, stick with Nikon as I don't need a PhD to use it
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  #20  
Old August 29th, 2010, 03:45 PM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Rebels are xxxd models (e.g., 550D) on your side of the pond, "Kiss" in Japan. Higher models have not had "names" since the Elan of film days.

60D is not a replacement for the 7D but rather for the 50D, and it's actually spec'd down from the 50D in some respects, so as to slot in more neatly between the Rebel/550D on the low end and the 7D on the upper end of the 1.6x crop line.

Nill
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  #21  
Old August 29th, 2010, 04:23 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Allan View Post
I think I'll, er, stick with Nikon as I don't need a PhD to use it
Nigel,

I am seriously toying with the idea of getting a Nikon D700 just for the 14-24.

Canon will catch up there I expect. They need the push of competition and that what Nikon is giving them, LOL!

Asher
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  #22  
Old August 29th, 2010, 06:29 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Nigel,

I am seriously toying with the idea of getting a Nikon D700 just for the 14-24.
There is of course always the lovely Sigma EX 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 DG HSM.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #23  
Old August 31st, 2010, 01:42 PM
Bernhard Rees Bernhard Rees is offline
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For me the new 60D does not take its part of a real successor of the 50D. Technical specifications like lower fps rate, using a lot of plastics combined with aluminium alloy in its camera chassis and the SD card slot indicate this to me as major key words of my conclusion.

Canon product managements seems to follow their mission to define a new market segment for their x0D line much closer to the Rebel series than before. Currently here in Germany a lot of people feel frustrated since the new 60D does not match their high expectations regarding technical features. We will see how the real sales numbers will evolve after bringing the 60D to its market in a few weeks time.

Bernhard
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  #24  
Old August 31st, 2010, 01:48 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernhard Rees View Post
the SD card slot.......
Bernard,

It should be that the SD card is less likely to causing issues in the field due to dirt and debris. CF cards are much more susceptible. I'd love them to make a super SD card the size of the CF card which cannot get dirt in any holes.

The only issue I have with SD cards is finding them when they drop in the grass or sand. However, if you are lucky enough to find them, the dirt can be simply brushed ofd!

The guy who designed them must have worked with contact lenses, LOL! They are also damned difficult to find, especially if you can't se without them. The worse combination is to lose and contact lens and SD card at the same time while photographing mud wrestling!

Asher
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  #25  
Old August 31st, 2010, 02:09 PM
Bernhard Rees Bernhard Rees is offline
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Asher,

I agree on your comment about some issues with CF cards. I was lucky enough not to run into such trouble you indicate. Strange enough my CF cards are still up and running smoothly whereas I lost at least 2 SD cards in the last few months which are not working any more. Since I am wearing glasses and sometimes contact lenses as well I feel amused about your picture of searching SD cards without a proper eye sight.

My idea about mentioning Canon switch from CF into SD cards for the 60D is that this little detail might be very interesting for former users of compact/bridge cameras or Canon's Rebel series. For a user of former x0D cameras it might be a real pain in his neck depending on the number of CF cards he collected throughout the years.

Bernhard
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  #26  
Old August 31st, 2010, 05:21 PM
Steve Robinson Steve Robinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Bernard,

It should be that the SD card is less likely to causing issues in the field due to dirt and debris. CF cards are much more susceptible. I'd love them to make a super SD card the size of the CF card which cannot get dirt in any holes.

The only issue I have with SD cards is finding them when they drop in the grass or sand. However, if you are lucky enough to find them, the dirt can be simply brushed ofd!

The guy who designed them must have worked with contact lenses, LOL! They are also damned difficult to find, especially if you can't se without them. The worse combination is to lose and contact lens and SD card at the same time while photographing mud wrestling!

Asher
Ha! Imagine using a Micro SD card! How big a card do you need? Sandisk makes a 64GB. Oh, you mean physical size. You'll just have to get stronger glasses! And skinnier fingers! 8~D
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