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  #1  
Old March 1st, 2012, 11:38 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Default A New Canon Flash, but will it work with the Pocket Wizard?

Boyd Hogen of B&H writes of the new Canon 600EX-RT Speedlite as a "Flash Powerhouse"

Product Highlights:
Wireless Multiple Flash System
  • TTL, E-TTL II & A-TTL Compatible

  • GN 197' (60 m) @ ISO100

  • Exceptionally Dust- and Water-Resistant

  • Zoom Flash Head: 20-200mm Range

  • Dot Matrix LCD Panel and Backlit Button

  • Color Filter Holder for Gelatin Filters

  • 18 Custom Functions

  • Full 180-Degree Swivel in Each Direction

  • AF Assist Beam
The 600EX-RT Speedlite, Canon’s newly announced successor to its cutting-edge 580EX II, enhances the best features of the 580EX II, and then throws in some fresh ingredients that sweeten your picture-taking experience. First, in with the new: the 600EX-RT smoothly pivots into precise lighting control with a new wireless flash system using radio-wave communication that’s able to give you mastery over as many as five groups of flashes. To heat up your creative efforts, a new color filter holder is included that handles Canon as well as third-party gelatin filters—so, no more taping filters to your flash. To help you add color to juice up your next shot, a light orange and a dark orange filter are included." Read the entire article here!

What it doesn't mention is how it works with existing flashes and Pocket Wizards. It's annoying that MFRs of Pro gear like Canon refuse to accept the PW standard or at least provide a simple route to it. But maybe it's there already?

So, is this worth buying. For me, I have about 8 Pocket Wizards and about 5 Canon flashes.,(what serious enthusiast or Pro doesn't!) So tell me what's the point of this? Well I guess it's sports shooting in the rain, LOL!

Asher
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  #2  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 01:15 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Hi Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
....So, is this worth buying. For me, I have about 8 Pocket Wizards and about 5 Canon flashes.,(what serious enthusiast or Pro doesn't!)
I don't (i.e. I have no PWs and I own only 1 flash). But then again we could certainly argue that I am not a serious enthusiast, lol.
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  #3  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 07:09 AM
Bob Latham Bob Latham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post

........It's annoying that MFRs of Pro gear like Canon refuse to accept the PW standard or at least provide a simple route to it. But maybe it's there already?
The problem is that the PW's sold in the US are not allowed in Europe and other regions of the world. The 344MHz they chose is reserved for Military and Defence applications. Although Canon could have made the frequency selectable, it is probable that it would still violate some regulation simply by having the possibility of using the military part of the spectrum.

Bob
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  #4  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 08:24 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Latham View Post
The problem is that the PW's sold in the US are not allowed in Europe and other regions of the world. The 344MHz they chose is reserved for Military and Defence applications. Although Canon could have made the frequency selectable, it is probable that it would still violate some regulation simply by having the possibility of using the military part of the spectrum.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for the insight. That does make some sense. I wonder whether pocket Wizard will make a receiver/transmitter to allow Canon flash to trigger a PW system. That would be neat.

Does anyone know whether or not the new system has IR too? I don't see any mention of accommodating older units. I just purchased 580 units!!

Asher
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  #5  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:51 AM
Bob Latham Bob Latham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Does anyone know whether or not the new system has IR too? I don't see any mention of accommodating older units. I just purchased 580 units!!

Asher
The spec on Canon's European site states the transmission type to be "Infra Red/ Radio" and maintains the AF assist beam.....something that the new ST-E3 has dispensed with.

Bob
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  #6  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:32 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Latham View Post
The spec on Canon's European site states the transmission type to be "Infra Red/ Radio" and maintains the AF assist beam.....something that the new ST-E3 has dispensed with.

Bob
We now know more!

Wireless, off-camera shooting with the Speedlite 600EX-RT

This new Speedlite remains fully backward-compatible for existing wireless E-TTL shooting. In other words, someone who already owns a Canon Speedlite system and shoots now with the current "optical" wireless E-TTL can bring the new Speedlite 600EX-RT into their world and not miss a beat. The Speedlite 600EX-RT is completely compatible with Canon's existing Wireless E-TTL, and can be mixed freely with flashes such as the 580EX II, previous 580EX or 550EX, 430EX II or 430EX, and/or the recent and less-expensive Speedlite 320EX or 270EX II. Used with optical Wireless E-TTL, it can work as an on-camera "master" unit, or off-camera "slave" unit, and as a slave unit, it can be freely mixed with other compatible Canon Speedlites.

So conventional, optical-based Wireless E-TTL – what Canon EOS users have worked with up to now – is entirely possible with the new Speedlite 600EX-RT.

But it also breaks ground for the entire photographic industry with its world's-first, built-in radio control for Wireless E-TTL. This is entirely separate from, and in addition to, the just-mentioned "optical" Wireless E-TTL which it's backward-compatible with.

The Speedlite 600EX-RT offers the user a choice of Wireless E-TTL methods: radio-based or optical. The two are entirely separate, and cannot be mixed and matched in the same set-up. For radio-based control, as of March, 2012, the only compatible flash gear are the Speedlite 600EX-RT and the accompanying Speedlite Transmitter ST-E3-RT (introduced along with the Speedlite 600EX-RT). Previous EOS Speedlites, like the 580EX II, are not compatible with Canon's new radio-based systems. And, while it's true that several third-party companies have developed accessories in the past few years to make Canon's current Speedlites radio-compliant, these systems – again – cannot simply be mixed and matched with the new radio-based 600EX-RT Wireless E-TTL set-up. Read more here
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  #7  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:51 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Isn't the pocket wizard transmitting all proprietary signals from the flash shoe? If so, one can always use a transmitter on the camera an a receiver on a 600EX, this one acting as a further radio transmitter to the other 600EX.

This being said, there are very few setups where one would need so many flashes and not use studio strobes.
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  #8  
Old March 4th, 2012, 02:05 PM
Bob Latham Bob Latham is offline
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A little more info from Canon's Digital Learning Centre.....

Flash sync speed: When used for radio-based Wireless E-TTL with any Canon EOS camera introduced prior to the EOS 5D Mark III or EOS-1D X, the maximum available sync speed for flash will be one stop slower than normal. (EOS 5D Mark II or original EOS 5D – 1/100th second; EOS 7D, 60D, 50D, etc – 1/125th second; all previous EOS Rebel models – 1/100th second.)

This only applies when using radio-based wireless control of off-camera 600EX-RT Speedlites. If a 600EX-RT is simply used on-camera (alone), or if it's used for optical-based Wireless E-TTL in any way, the camera's normal, full flash sync speeds are available.

No high-speed sync: For radio-based wireless E-TTL, the only cameras that allow hi-speed flash sync will be the EOS 5D Mark III and EOS-1D X (as of March, 2012). It's not possible with any other previous EOS camera bodies, when combined with the radio-based wireless flash system.
(Hi-speed sync is possible for both E-TTL and manual flash exposure if a single 600EX-RT is used on-camera with previous EOS models, as well as during optical-based wireless E-TTL.)
E-TTL automatic flash not possible (via radio) with the following cameras:
EOS-1D and EOS-1Ds (original versions only - all "Mark..." versions are OK)
EOS-1v; EOS-3
EOS Elan IIE (EOS 50E)
35mm film-based EOS Rebel models
(Rebel Ti/EOS 300v and Rebel T2/EOS 300X are OK)


Full article here with the quoted portion above appearing on page 3

Looks to be less than ideal in certain applications of mix and match Speedlights.

Bob
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  #9  
Old March 4th, 2012, 02:41 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Bob,

Thanks for digging deeper and finding this important but unfortunate news! It seems like there are too many headaches to depart from tried and true Pocket Wizard systems which can be applied to any camera. This new system might be fine with all the feature working for the 1Dx and 5DIII but even then, 1/125 sec is hardly what one would expect for a pro system.

Asher
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  #10  
Old March 4th, 2012, 03:03 PM
Bob Latham Bob Latham is offline
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It looks like it's primarily a unit for someone starting from scratch with a new body....I guess that a system sometimes need a new direction and not just evolution.

The other thing not too obvious from the write-ups is the power of the beast. The quoted guide number of 60 at 200mm looks like a step up from the 580's 58 at 105mm. I believe that this is more of a head geometry re-design than a stored energy factor as the 580 has a higher GN than the 600 when used wide (28mm).

Bob
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  #11  
Old March 4th, 2012, 03:44 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Bob,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Latham View Post
It looks like it's primarily a unit for someone starting from scratch with a new body....I guess that a system sometimes need a new direction and not just evolution.

The other thing not too obvious from the write-ups is the power of the beast. The quoted guide number of 60 at 200mm looks like a step up from the 580's 58 at 105mm. I believe that this is more of a head geometry re-design than a stored energy factor as the 580 has a higher GN than the 600 when used wide (28mm).
Indeed.

"New! 12-serving package! Serving size: 7.63 oz."

Best regards,

Doug
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