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  #1  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 03:37 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Default mishka henner

http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/...t=artanddesign



Interesting read.
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  #2  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 09:02 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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SOURCE: Enterrement


Mark,

What an interesting but unsettling subject! Sure this catches out attention as surrealistic art. However, it's based on theft of other folks work.

The appropriation artist's claim a surfeit of images makes ownership non-functional and the creating of new captures unnecessary. So they feel free to take copyrighted work and change it for themselves or just sign it as is with no other alterations and now copyright it as their own!

To me it's rude at a minimum. Here, the erasure of parts of someone else's art is audacious but but morally wrong when the new work doesn't have to pay any licensing fee for use of the original.

Working like that is really banditry!

Asher
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  #3  
Old May 24th, 2012, 06:00 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post



SOURCE: Enterrement


Mark,

What an interesting but unsettling subject! Sure this catches out attention as surrealistic art. However, it's based on theft of other folks work.

The appropriation artist's claim a surfeit of images makes ownership non-functional and the creating of new captures unnecessary. So they feel free to take copyrighted work and change it for themselves or just sign it as is with no other alterations and now copyright it as their own!

To me it's rude at a minimum. Here, the erasure of parts of someone else's art is audacious but but morally wrong when the new work doesn't have to pay any licensing fee for use of the original.

Working like that is really banditry!

Asher
Asher,

I find it interesting and kind of agree with this way of working. If i had an idea that I wanted to explore and though that utilising someone else work would help me achieve what I wanted then I would do it.

The issue that is @ the heart of the article for me is - images made in the main by the establishment artist / photographers - tend towards the conservative / modernist ideology and therefore are fair game - because that ideology is in its self immoral and using the images from it can critique the ideology.

just a thought
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  #4  
Old May 24th, 2012, 09:52 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Originally Posted by Mark Hampton View Post
Asher,

I find it interesting and kind of agree with this way of working. If i had an idea that I wanted to explore and though that utilising someone else work would help me achieve what I wanted then I would do it.

The issue that is @ the heart of the article for me is - images made in the main by the establishment artist / photographers - tend towards the conservative / modernist ideology and therefore are fair game - because that ideology is in its self immoral and using the images from it can critique the ideology.

just a thought
Mark,

That's a simple but enlightening line of thought!

Wow, appropriation art is now noble!!!

Your assertions do make some sense. What you're proposing are the kind of almost unlimited rights to photograph public figures in the USA, even when they so, "Stop!". After all, they have placed themselves, out in the open, "above everyone else", for public scrutiny. These are the politicians, "personalities" or other famous folk in the limelight. The doctrine assumes that all, (willingly or unwillingly), forfeited rights to privacy.

So, there's a precedent for that way of thinking. Then Mishka, by self-publishing, is making some social-political or editorial comment, one might claim.

However, when Prince usurps someone else's art and merely signs it as a new work of art, pegging megabucks, that seems preposterous. But then, what about photographing a sunset and claiming it as one's own art? Isn't that preposterous too?

Asher
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  #5  
Old May 24th, 2012, 10:42 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Mark,

That's a simple but enlightening line of thought!

Wow, appropriation art is now noble!!!

Your assertions do make some sense. What you're proposing are the kind of almost unlimited rights to photograph public figures in the USA, even when they so, "Stop!". After all, they have placed themselves, out in the open, "above everyone else", for public scrutiny. These are the politicians, "personalities" or other famous folk in the limelight. The doctrine assumes that all, (willingly or unwillingly), forfeited rights to privacy.

So, there's a precedent for that way of thinking. Then Mishka, by self-publishing, is making some social-political or editorial comment, one might claim.

However, when Prince usurps someone else's art and merely signs it as a new work of art, pegging megabucks, that seems preposterous. But then, what about photographing a sunset and claiming it as one's own art? Isn't that preposterous too?

Asher
Asher,

well - i guess if you want to critique prince - deconstruct his work and make it your own - then sell it on or even give it away.

Mishka also sees the humour and trouble making in this whole issue.

The art market is a business that tends to get critiqued by artists - whose work then gets consumed by the market and sold.

ah the beauty of it all.
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  #6  
Old May 24th, 2012, 02:28 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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it's based on theft of other folks work.
There is a reason why lawyers use a different word for theft and for copyright infringement. And that subtle difference is what we should consider to understand these works. I think that part of the message is indeed that copyright, in its current form, has evolved into a legal construction limiting creation. Which is exactly the opposite of what it was created for.
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  #7  
Old May 24th, 2012, 03:31 PM
Tom dinning Tom dinning is offline
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How delightful an approach. I would like to think Mishka is taking the piss out of a few of us as well as finding a way to comment on photography through photographs, irrespective of his methods or source. Theoretical interpretive photographs are a much neglects genre and it takes a brave person to go down that path because of the sensitivity of the photographer to their own. These images are likely to generate more comment about the ethics of the photographer than the photograph itself. I would hope that is part of Mishka's purpose, along with finding a very unusual and controversial way of doing it.
I wonder what those people are thinking who know nothing about the origin of the photos?
Go Mishka!
Cheers
Tom
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  #8  
Old May 24th, 2012, 03:53 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom dinning View Post
I wonder what those people are thinking who know nothing about the origin of the photos?
Go Mishka!
Cheers
Tom
that is a hard question man.... you could test it of course... print oot the two books and show people the images and record their reactions...... you would need a control off course !

also video it as a performance piece - asher can write a statement ... i went to GSA - fukk we could have a turner prize in a year - we need a title.......
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  #9  
Old May 24th, 2012, 05:21 PM
Tom dinning Tom dinning is offline
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that is a hard question man.... you could test it of course... print oot the two books and show people the images and record their reactions...... you would need a control off course !

also video it as a performance piece - asher can write a statement ... i went to GSA - fukk we could have a turner prize in a year - we need a title.......
Geez, Mark, go lay down. I just asked the question. I didn't expect a Project. On second thought, do you think we could get a grant for it? I bags you write the statement. I can never understand what Asher says.
How's this for a title:
'A continuous study in the general understanding of the public on the rantings of the Arty Farty as they continue to gaze into their collective navels.'
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  #10  
Old May 25th, 2012, 12:05 PM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom dinning View Post
Geez, Mark, go lay down. I just asked the question. I didn't expect a Project. On second thought, do you think we could get a grant for it? I bags you write the statement. I can never understand what Asher says.
How's this for a title:
'A continuous study in the general understanding of the public on the rantings of the Arty Farty as they continue to gaze into their collective navels.'

"the public gaze into their collective navels of general understanding " is the title then.
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  #11  
Old May 25th, 2012, 04:28 PM
Tom dinning Tom dinning is offline
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On a more serious note (not that becoming famous isn't serious enough), my curious mind often ponders on the indignation of people concerning such action. I wish someone would steal one of my pictures and alter it for their own ends. I'd like to feel indignant for once in my life.
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  #12  
Old May 25th, 2012, 11:35 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom dinning View Post
I wish someone would steal one of my pictures and alter it for their own ends.
That wish is easy to grant.

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  #13  
Old May 26th, 2012, 03:17 AM
Tom dinning Tom dinning is offline
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That wish is easy to grant.

That's not my indignation, Jerome, that's Shanon's and I would n't mix with her in a fit. She' d eat you for breakfast and have a second cup of coffee while she disposed of the bones.
I'll keep it from her until you misbehave.
Tom
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  #14  
Old May 26th, 2012, 04:57 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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ok had a lie down.





D3S9527 by tom.dinning, on Flickr - 20111122_4917 by tom.dinning, on Flickr - D3S4262 by tom.dinning, on Flickr - D309710 by tom.dinning, on Flickr -roy by tom.dinning, on Flickr DSC_1850 by tom.dinning, on Flickr D305987 by tom.dinning, on Flickr






Inside my mind through someones elses eyes and into your head - DEKA






.
above is an imagined re working of some of the toms work on this site - you may also notice a few of ashers pictures of the girls just for the record. thanks for allowing me to re imagine the work anew - i hope i have given you some space to look anew at your pictures.
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  #15  
Old May 26th, 2012, 10:58 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom dinning View Post
That's not my indignation, Jerome, that's Shanon's and I would n't mix with her in a fit.
It isn't your picture?
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  #16  
Old May 28th, 2012, 01:46 AM
Tom dinning Tom dinning is offline
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It isn't your picture?
It's my picture but I don't have any feelings (so Christine says) hence no indignation. But I am aware that 18 year olds are very sensitive and this particular one has warrior Maori blood in her, sufficient to generate considerable emotion and render fear among the toughest of us. Her vibrant language has been known to strip paint off walls and stop venomous snakes in their track.

And what are you up to Mark? Fart arsing about again? Didn't work from this end. Have another go.

Tom
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  #17  
Old May 28th, 2012, 06:37 AM
Mark Hampton Mark Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom dinning View Post

And what are you up to Mark? Fart arsing about again? Didn't work from this end. Have another go.

Tom
Tom - its a text based offering - Derived by or designating the process of reasoning from facts or particulars to general principles or from effects to causes; inductive; empirical.
2.
a. Justified by appeal to experience.
b. Knowable from experience.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Medieval Latin : Latin a, from + Latin posterior, ablative of posterior, later.].

I find its rhythm reminiscent of James Joyce at his best and the brutal red has shades of apocalypse now for me.

sorry it didn't work for you. i think I may leave this area of exploration for while.

thanks for asking for more !
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  #18  
Old May 28th, 2012, 03:35 PM
Tom dinning Tom dinning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hampton View Post
Tom - its a text based offering - Derived by or designating the process of reasoning from facts or particulars to general principles or from effects to causes; inductive; empirical.
2.
a. Justified by appeal to experience.
b. Knowable from experience.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Medieval Latin : Latin a, from + Latin posterior, ablative of posterior, later.].

I find its rhythm reminiscent of James Joyce at his best and the brutal red has shades of apocalypse now for me.

sorry it didn't work for you. i think I may leave this area of exploration for while.

thanks for asking for more !

Huh? Talk a language I know, or at least one that exists outside your brilliant but bewildering brain.
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