Pentax K10D - First Impressions Update

[Kyle Nagel]

In another thread I posted some of my first impressions of Pentax's newest DSLR, that post was made after less than a days experience with the camera, since then I have had an opportunity to spend more time with the camera and images, as well as reading some other forums and reviews.

I wanted to follow up within a couple of days of my first post, but things posted on other forums, as well as my own observations caused me to hold off until now. I knew I would be speaking with the Pentax Rep on December 1st, and I decided to wait until I spoke with him to inquire about some of my observations, I'm glad I did as he was able to explain a couple of things that at first glance seemed a little confusing.

Below is a link to my first post regarding this camera:


http://www.openphotographyforums.com...5&postcount=10

Well in keeping with my last promise in the above post I will explain a little about the in camera RAW converter. This is rather slick, basically if you shoot RAW and want to quickly get a JPEG for what ever reason, you can bring up the image and actually scroll through the various settings (Sensitivity, saturation, contrast, various White Balances with the ability to adjust and fine tune the White Balance, brightness, compression, and recorded pixels) and you can see the effect of the changes on the image in real-time, then you convert, and Viola! you have a JPEG.

Now for a few other observations:

Image Quality. (I'm hoping to eventually post some samples within the next month)
Despite what I have heard and seen posted on other forums I cannot produce the banding a few have mentioned seeing. Some of the "me to" posts on the other forums were actually various incarnations of posterization, or moire effects, and some were hard to determine the cause of, but without working with the image myself it is hard to say what the cause is. I have only seen images by maybe two posters that appear to be actual banding problems, and because I cannot reproduce the same effect with my camera, I have come to the conclusion that it is a problem with either only a very small number of the bodies, or it is caused by something other than the camera. The banding issue was one area I spoke to the Pentax Rep about and I was told that they have heard nothing about this from early recipients of the camera, and the quality control on this camera is higher than any other camera they have released to date, which is one of the causes of the slower than anticipated roll-out. He did say he would pass on the information.

As expected the noise is obviously higher than their 6mp cameras, from 400 to 800 ISO I still prefer my old *istD 6mp, at 100 ISO it has about the same noise that I saw at 200 ISO on my *istD, which did not have a setting below 200 ISO, so at 100 ISO it has the advantage of the additional resolution from the 10mp sensor. I generally do not like shooting above 800 ISO, and try to stay at 400 or lower, so I have not tried shooting anything at 1600 yet.

Ergonomics. The camera is fairly comfortable to hold, and the addition of a lip to the left side of the body makes it even more comfortable to hold when using two hands. The button layout and placement seems OK, but the menu actions seem counter intuitive, you use the left and right directional buttons to "check" or "un-check" a box, and the center "OK" button to move back to the main menu, I've got confused more than once. But this is something that once you become familiar with will probably get easier. I have accidentally moved the "mode" dial on my *istD several times while putting it in and out of my bag, or bumped it with my left hand causing it to move off of my preferential setting, the K10D suffers from the same problem. Pentax has a locking center button on their 645nII that needs to be pushed in order to move the dial, this needs to be incorporated into the DSLRs as well, especially since the dial is so close to the edge of the body, and turns very easily, harder clicks or a stiffer dial may also fix the problem.

Flash Issues. This was my biggest problem with the camera, for two reasons, first was the fact that it was not compatible with the TTL flashes, only the much newer P-TTL flashes (of which there are only 2), I have several TTL flashes, 2 are were expensive models, including the AF 140C macro ring-flash, which is over $500, evidently I can no longer use this flash on the K10D, I was very concerned about their choice to do this, especially since my experimentation with my TTL flashes created unusable images, even in manual mode, this confused me since it should work in manual flash mode, but the communication with the camera seemed to cause the TTL flashes to fire a full power burst, regardless of the camera and flash settings, I had a hard time understanding their choice here since my older *istD could do both TTL and P-TTL. The Pentax Rep explained this was due to the sensor coating that has a reflectivity problem that throws off the flash metering during exposure. Since this was unavoidable due to technical reasons I will consider myself lucky that I had recently picked up their newest flash, those with older units will have to buy a new flash, and there is no macro flash currently available for the camera. For those interested only the AF 540FGZ, and the AF 360FGZ, will work on this camera, so add about $220-$300 to the cost of the body if you don't own one of these flashes and want to do flash photography.

My second issue with the flash was there is no built in wireless mode, with my old *istD I could do wireless P-TTL flash photography with only one flash unit, however the K10D requires two, count them two of their newer flash units to do wireless flash photography, one on the camera to act as the master, and then the off camera unit. The Rep told me this question has come up before and was posed to those that did the development, and they had no reason for not including this feature, other than that they had just chosen not to. So not only do you need to buy one new flash, but TWO new flashes to do off camera flash photography. This is my biggest issue with the K10D.

Focusing. The focus is considerably faster than their other bodies, especially on larger lenses, I assume there is a better focusing motor in the body, it seems to move the larger lenses faster and more easily than my *istD. Nikon still takes the biscuit when it comes to fast focusing, but this one is a lot better than other Pentax bodies, and Pentax is coming out with some new SSM lenses next year that will be even faster.

In Summary. Over all I am very happy with the camera, the image quality seems on par with other 10mp DSLRs, but has some nice advantages over a lot of them, the in-camera shake reduction(SR) is one, and since the SR is on the sensor it can do rotational movement reduction, something that cannot be done with in-lens SR, it can only be done by moving the sensor, and you also don't need special lenses, it works on all of them. The weather and dust resistant feature is nice on a camera in this price range also. The dust removal/sensor cleaning system can be set to go off each time you turn on the camera, or you can manually do it when ever you want.

The K10D is a very competitive offering from Pentax, for the price and features it will be hard to beat, pick up a couple of the Limited Edition lenses and you'll be off and running with a top notch system. My only big issue is with the lack of built in wireless flash, especially since you can only use their two newest flashes in the first place, and now you'll have to buy two in order to do wireless flash photography.

Kyle

[Asher Kelman]

Kyle,

This is a very dedicated piece of work and so appreciated. The web is full of inuendo and bad buzz about camera gear. This is so destructive. I have as yet founf nothing to give me concern about the new Pentax camera as far as artifacts aare concerned but these are eraly days.

The need for the updated flash is a disappointment.

Looking forward to your pictures!

Asher

[Ben Rubinstein]

Kyle, does the ability to dial in a maximum of only a +1 to the flash bother you? I use more than a +1 every time I shoot a wedding, a backlit bride needs a lot of compensation.

[Kyle Nagel]

I hadn't thought about it much, I did notice that both the flash exposure control on the camera, and the control on the flash (540FGZ) go to +1, I will have to play with it and see what happens if I dial in +1 on both, would it give me +2? I think the +1 limitation was probably done to prevent extreme over exposure. I'll play with it a little and let you know what I find.

Kyle

[Kyle Nagel]

Here's a great article on the K10D from the Luminous Landscape:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...ntax-10D.shtml

It gets some great praises.

I also noticed he was able to produce some shots with the "banding" that some have mentioned seeing, though he said it was only on some shots at 1600 ISO in very under exposed areas. This seems to be on par with cameras from both Nikon and Canon that have similar issues under those types of extreme conditions. He also mentions it was easily fixed with Noiseware or Noise Ninja. Because it only occurs occasionally under less than ideal situations at 1600 ISO, and since I seldom(if ever) shoot above 800 ISO, for me I don't find this a real issue, or deal breaker for that matter. To be honest what sort of quality would one expect to get shooting under-exposed dark objects at 1600 ISO, from any camera? You would have to run these through noise reduction software anyway to get a marginally usable image.

Over all he was rather impressed with the camera, and he seems to think that this one may stimulate some activity from Nikon and Canon's camps.

Kyle

[Colin McKie]

Originally Posted by Kyle Nagel

My second issue with the flash was there is no built in wireless mode, with my old *istD I could do wireless P-TTL flash photography with only one flash unit, however the K10D requires two, count them two of their newer flash units to do wireless flash photography, one on the camera to act as the master, and then the off camera unit. The Rep told me this question has come up before and was posed to those that did the development, and they had no reason for not including this feature, other than that they had just chosen not to. So not only do you need to buy one new flash, but TWO new flashes to do off camera flash photography. This is my biggest issue with the K10D.

Kyle

I read somewhere fairly convincing (possibly an interview with a Japanese Pentax exec) that the wireless function was incompatible with the anti-shake for technical reasons. Maybe the pulsing internal flash kicks out enough power rail noise to upset the analogue motion sensors.

Certainly, I liked the function on the *istD and found it useful for macro, hand holding the AF360FGZ with Lumiquest softbox.

We only got our K10D yesterday, so still exploring, but so far it looks very good. Better IQ than the *istD, but not quite as good as the Canon 5D. Just what you'd expect, really!

Colin

[Kyle Nagel]

I think they may have been confused with the lack of TTL flash support, which could not be incorporated due to a reflectivity issue during exposure, this I was told was in part caused by the Shake-Reduction system, and in part by the new sensor coating that helps prevent dust from sticking to the sensor. The wireless system is a different matter, it just has to have a master and a slave, and if an external shoe mounted flash can transmit the proper info for wireless with the SR sensor, the internal one should be able to as well, irregardless of the sensor. The Pentax rep explained that during a Q & A session with Pentax's product development people, the question on not having built in wireless came up, and they basically shrugged their shoulders and stated it wasn't included because they had just chosen not to do so. I imagine some developers may have thought it was used infrequently with the internal flash and other newer features were more important, I think it was an oversight not to include it, especially since they were unable to get the TTL flash function to work with the camera, mainly because those upgrading from the *istD that don't own a FGZ series flash will need to buy two flashes now, had the FTZ series TTL flashes been compatible, it would have only required those owning a single TTL flash to purchase one flash to have the wireless feature again.


I will mention while posting that I spent some time experimenting with a couple of "M" series lenses with some very good results, I have a 28mm f2.8 and a 50mm f1.7 manual lens. I was able to get some nice results, I will post more on this later.


Kyle

[Asher Kelman]

Thanks Nigel for the interesting update. The choices designer's make is intriguing. Pentax does so many creative things way ahead of others, yet seem to make gaffs like Leica with the IR thing and here Pentax with perhaps an incomplete understanding as to what was needed for flash work!

Asher

[Benjamin Kanarek]

As an avid Canon user for about twenty or so years and of course still keeping my material, I made the decision to go with Pentax. I am using a couple of K10D bodies the three new Limited lenses, and their macro and newer zooms i.e. 12-24 and 16-45.

I'll be putting them through their paces this weekend for a twelve page fashion editorial. Rather excited, as it will be the first time published with Pentax DSLR camera's. Of course have used 645 and 6x7 Prntax for years.

[Kyle Nagel]

I recently picked up the 31mm limited, it's a real sweetheart, pretty much stays on the camera all the time, it basically bumped my 50mm 1.4 back into the bag. I will be picking up the limited 77mm in the near future. I thought about the 43mm limited as well, but it is so close to my 50mm in focal length I felt it would be a little redundant. Let me know how you like the performance of the zooms, over the years I've bought and sold about a half dozen different zooms. I'm just never as happy with them as I am the primes, and I think I take better pictures with primes for a number of reasons, but the 12-24mm looks pretty tempting. If you want a really nice wide, I'd recommend the FA 20mm f2.8, I've been using one for a couple of years and it is absolutely incredible, razor sharp and the contrast is stunning.

Kyle

[Asher Kelman]

Benjamin,

How wonderful you can join Kyle here with your Pentax K10D's! I am impressed that the company of my venerable Spotmatic (it still works) has produced a camera which earns its wings for Pro work. That is delightful. Pentax certainly set the standard for others to match in delivering a 10MP system that is dust and weather-sealed for the Pro.

I'd like to know what lenses get assigned to what kind of work as I know nothing of the limited series, except for some reason the come in odd numbers.

Asher

[Benjamin Kanarek]

Originally Posted by Kyle Nagel

I recently picked up the 31mm limited, it's a real sweetheart, pretty much stays on the camera all the time, it basically bumped my 50mm 1.4 back into the bag. I will be picking up the limited 77mm in the near future. I thought about the 43mm limited as well, but it is so close to my 50mm in focal length I felt it would be a little redundant. Let me know how you like the performance of the zooms, over the years I've bought and sold about a half dozen different zooms. I'm just never as happy with them as I am the primes, and I think I take better pictures with primes for a number of reasons, but the 12-24mm looks pretty tempting. If you want a really nice wide, I'd recommend the FA 20mm f2.8, I've been using one for a couple of years and it is absolutely incredible, razor sharp and the contrast is stunning.

Kyle

As I have the 21 Limited, I won't be needing the 20mm. I will be getting the 16-50 2.8 and 50-135 2.8 from Pentax when they come out in March. I am only using the new pancake Limited lenses i.e. the 21, 40 and 70. All very nice..

[Benjamin Kanarek]

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

Benjamin,

How wonderful you can join Kyle here with your Pentax K10D's! I am impressed that the company of my venerable Spotmatic (it still works) has produced a camera which earns its wings for Pro work. That is delightful. Pentax certainly set the standard for others to match in delivering a 10MP system that is dust and weather-sealed for the Pro.

I'd like to know what lenses get assigned to what kind of work as I know nothing of the limited series, except for some reason the come in odd numbers.

Asher

Hello Asher;

Being that I have never been a very "Technical" photographer, nothing I do is ever carved in stone. By that I mean, I use which ever lens suits my fancy. I generally like shooting relatively wide angle i.e. from 24 to 60mm. When I shot Canon almost all of my shoots were done with the 17-40L lens. That would translate to about 26 to 64mm. For my shoot in studio coming up this weekend I will probably use my 21 Limited, 40 Limited for full shots and the 70 Limited for beauty and perhaps my 12-24 if I really want to distort my image. I have used longer focal lengths for beauty for example. I just received the Pentax DA Macro 100mm 2.8 which I haven't yet used and may do so. When shooting Canon I used the very fine Tamron 90mm 2.8. Frightfully sharp lens.

[Kyle Nagel]

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

Benjamin,

How wonderful you can join Kyle here with your Pentax K10D's! I am impressed that the company of my venerable Spotmatic (it still works) has produced a camera which earns its wings for Pro work. That is delightful. Pentax certainly set the standard for others to match in delivering a 10MP system that is dust and weather-sealed for the Pro.

I'd like to know what lenses get assigned to what kind of work as I know nothing of the limited series, except for some reason the come in odd numbers.

Asher

The 31mm is just about the right focal length for walking around photography, about 46 or 47mm equivalent on the APS sized sensor, and with it being such a beautifully made lens it looks and works beautifully. Pentax made 3 extremely nice FA limited editions, the 31mm f1.8, the 43mm f1.9, and the 77mm f1.8, I'm not sure how they came up with the focal lengths except they have said that 43mm is a "true" normal perspective for a 35mm, it's anybodies guess on the other two. These 3 lenses have become almost legendary in the photography world, with the 31mm being touted by some as the best lens ever made. Here are a couple links regarding these lenses,

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/co...02-05-02.shtml

http://www.robertstech.com/graphics/pages/31_ltd.htm

Kyle

[Edward Bussa]

FYI -- The new 1.1 firmware converts the built-in flash to a wireless controller.

From the firmware documentation:

Thank you for using a PENTAX K10D digital camera. PENTAX wishes to announce the release of Firmware Update Software Version 1.10 for K10D. Firmware in this document is the software that runs inside digital cameras .

Changes to V1.10

The following function has been added in version 1.10

• Wireless control of external flash through built-in flash.
• Instantly return to centre AF point by one push of button in AF select mode.
• Possible to change ISO setting by dial at TV/AV mode.
• ISO setting change by dial while the ISO setting is being displayed on the LCD by pushing OK button.
• Green button function in M mode is available at TAv mode (Hyper manual).
• AV and TV switch by dial at P mode.
• Instant return to the default value by green button at strobe light compensation.

The following contents have been corrected.

• In rare case, vertical stripe at long time exposure.
• Released “B exposure” and show battery empty sign when using B mode.

[Kyle Nagel]

This is great news! This was one of my main issues with the K10D, now I'm going to have to call the Pentax rep and find out why he didn't tell me sooner! ;-) Seriously though this is really good news, I just downloaded the update and will be installing it shortly, thanks again for the heads up!

I must also say that they really reacted to this issue quickly, I hope they keep it up.

Kyle

[Benjamin Kanarek]

The new update 1.2 will include a contract with American Vogue worth over 2 milllion dollars or 18 euros and all of the Conde Nast Group...Will only apply to the first three downloads...So heads up!

[Kyle Nagel]

LOL! I'll be checking daily for that one!

If anyone is interested here is the list of all the changes with v1.1:

Using the camera's built-in flash, you can now wirelessly control external Pentax flashes. Previously, you needed an accessory flash mounted in your camera's hot shoe, but now the built-in flash can act as a control flash.

In autofocus select mode, you can program the AF button to instantly return to the center autofocus point.

In Tv or Av mode, you can now program the second e-dial to adjust your ISO setting.

In any exposure mode except Sv and TAv, you can change your ISO setting with the front e-dial while pressing the OK button. The camera will display your ISO in the viewfinder and on the top LCD panel as you adjust your setting.

In TAv mode, you can program the green button to return to the camera's program line. Previously this functionality was only available in M mode.

You now have additional options for programming your e-dials in P mode.

Pressing the green button while adjusting flash exposure compensation will now return you to the default value.

Corrected an issue in some rare cases where a long exposure might produce a vertical stripe.

Corrected an issue where the battery charge indicator would sometimes show empty in bulb exposure mode.

Thanks, Kyle

[Andrew Wilson]

Hi Kyle,
I have to agree about the 31 Limited...my 50/1.4 has also become redundant.
There was an interesting write up in "Sunday Morning Photographer", Luminuous Landsacpe about the Pentax Limited lenses.
I too am enjoying my K10, but I still lug a couple of istD bodies with me!

Regards
Andrew

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Andrew,

Why don't you add to your profile your location, I'm looking out for someone in the Los Angeles area who has the K10 with the limited lenses.

In the meanwhile, I'll visit Samy's camera.

An SD card or a CF?

Asher

[Andrew Wilson]

Hi asher,
I've updated my profile, sorry, based in Australia, no LA.
I use Extreme III Sd cards in the K10 and Ultra II CF's in the istD.


Regards
Andrew

[Asher Kelman]

Well, mate, a little out of the way, I's say! I have no idea where in that huge country Wallerawang is and I was pretty good at geography.

Maybe some pictures with the *1stD and the K10D would bring us closer! well not quite in spitting range!

Asher

[Andrew Wilson]

I'll get some posted soon...up to our armpits in jobs at the moment (not that I'm complaining). I think it's close to time to put up the prices.

AW

[Kyle Nagel]

up to our armpits in jobs at the moment (not that I'm complaining).

There worse problems to have than too much business, eh?

Have you installed the latest firmware update?

I've been playing with my K10D for the last day after updating it to v1.1 firmware, it's like having a new camera, the added ISO control is great. Pentax has finally figured out what a lot of others haven't, that ISO is now just as important of a variable as aperture or shutter speed. Back when I shot film it was pretty much fixed until you were done with the roll, now it can be different from one shot to the next, but having it's control buried in a sub-menu somewhere wasn't very convenient. Now you just press the "OK" button with your thumb and turn the front e-dial with you index finger to adjust ISO, then once you let go of the "OK" button your index finger shifts the shutter speed with the front dial and your thumb shifts aperture on the rear dial, so now it is very easy to adjust all three of those variables very quickly and easily, it also now displays the ISO adjustment in the viewfinder.

The wireless flash using the built in flash that was added is also pretty slick, though I am having trouble getting exposure right, the exposure in wireless mode on my *istD is much better than on the K10D, so I'll have to play with it a bit and see if I can get it figured out.

Kyle