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  #1  
Old December 28th, 2006, 03:24 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Default A new tool from Belkin to clean sensors...

To be shipped in January...
If ever the new Canons doesn't have any auto-clean system, we'll maybe find a/the solution here...
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  #2  
Old December 28th, 2006, 03:50 PM
Nikolai Sklobovsky Nikolai Sklobovsky is offline
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Default Merci beaucoup!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris
To be shipped in January...
If ever the new Canons doesn't have any auto-clean system, we'll maybe find a/the solution here...
Great news! Finally looks like a cleaning device I'd actually may be willing to pay more than a hundred bucks for:-)

PS1
It's Delkin, not Belkin, two different companies..
PS2
They also have Digital Duster, which is hundred bucks cheaper and does not include the loupe.
Maybe they would also sell the little vacuum device separately..:-)
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  #3  
Old December 28th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Jeff O'Neil Jeff O'Neil is offline
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This does look like it's well worth the money.

Jeff
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  #4  
Old December 29th, 2006, 12:34 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolai Sklobovsky
PS1
It's Delkin, not Belkin, two different companies..
Hoops! it seems I need to clean my keyboard too! (or go to sleep earlier ;-)
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  #5  
Old January 4th, 2007, 04:43 AM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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I'm looking for a cleaning system, expecting these to become mature, after spending a few 100 $ at canon's rep center - in 06, only...

Does anybody uses the Arctic Butterfly 724?
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  #6  
Old January 4th, 2007, 02:26 PM
Tom Henkel Tom Henkel is offline
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Default What am I missing here?

It looks like the "new" technology is this viewing device. The rest of the kit appears to be stuff already available (mostly sensor swabs and Eclipse). I'm not sure about the vacuum thing -- seems questionable to me.

How is this viewer better than shooting a blank wall at a small aperture? It seems that approach delivers the same basic result for free. And a box of sensor swabs and a bottle of Eclipse costs about $50-$60.

Tom
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  #7  
Old January 6th, 2007, 09:33 AM
Chuck Fry Chuck Fry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Henkel
How is this viewer better than shooting a blank wall at a small aperture? It seems that approach delivers the same basic result for free. And a box of sensor swabs and a bottle of Eclipse costs about $50-$60.
The Delkin viewer lets you figure out if you got the schmutz off without having to put the lens back on and cycle the camera. Not a huge advantage if the schmutz comes off in the first swipe... but for me, it took several SensorSwabs the first time I cleaned my 20D. Just another time vs. money tradeoff.

I do like the vacuum cleaner idea. Seems to me it's better to suck the particles of crud out of the mirror chamber than to blow them around and possibly just relocate them within the camera.
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  #8  
Old January 6th, 2007, 09:50 AM
StuartRae StuartRae is offline
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Quote:
Seems to me it's better to suck the particles of crud out of the mirror chamber
I can see a drawback to this. The suction will remove air from the chamber. What replaces it? Fresh, crud-laden air from outside.

Regards,

Stuart
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  #9  
Old January 6th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Harvey Moore Harvey Moore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartRae
I can see a drawback to this. The suction will remove air from the chamber. What replaces it? Fresh, crud-laden air from outside.
I agree with this statement, and it applies to Rocket type blowers also, quality of air filling the bulb is a factor.

My most successful cleanings have been done in good motels, non smoking rooms, no heaters or air conditioner running, immediately after checkin before stirring stuff up in the air.
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  #10  
Old January 6th, 2007, 01:14 PM
Joel Slack Joel Slack is offline
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Not to detract from the topic, but possibly some kind of aperture that closes when the lens is released could be rigged to close off the sensor chamber completely. I mean, this is a really big issue that isn't going away anytime soon. A "real" fix will have to present itself eventually.
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  #11  
Old February 28th, 2007, 07:33 PM
John Wright John Wright is offline
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I think the manufacturers are beginning to feed on the dust paranoia that has been generated by the endless sensor cleaning threads on all the photography forums. Dust has never been enough of an issue with me to spend that kind of money on a device with a very limited purpose.
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  #12  
Old February 28th, 2007, 07:56 PM
Nikolai Sklobovsky Nikolai Sklobovsky is offline
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Default John,

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wright View Post
I think the manufacturers are beginning to feed on the dust paranoia that has been generated by the endless sensor cleaning threads on all the photography forums. Dust has never been enough of an issue with me to spend that kind of money on a device with a very limited purpose.
With all due respect, dust in DSLRs *is* as a real issue as it can get. That is, if you have more lenses than bodies (which is usually the case for the most of us), and from time to time have a pressing emergency to change a lens in the field. There is no feeling like getting back from a long day (from 3am to 7 pm) of shooting with a few Gb worth of pictures, 90% of which displaying those nasty dust spots, usually located in the most inconvenient places for the post removal...

I was seriously thinking to get one originally, but now with the MarkIII on the horizon... Mebbe I'll wait:-)

Cheers! :-)
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  #13  
Old February 28th, 2007, 09:08 PM
Edward Bussa Edward Bussa is offline
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A complete toolkit - expensive too.

I'm excited about Dust-Aid - less expensive but uses adhesives - any opinions about this product?
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  #14  
Old February 28th, 2007, 11:21 PM
Nikolai Sklobovsky Nikolai Sklobovsky is offline
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Default Ed,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Bussa View Post
I'm excited about Dust-Aid - less expensive but uses adhesives - any opinions about this product?
Looks very interesting, thank you for the link!
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  #15  
Old February 28th, 2007, 11:53 PM
Sean DeMerchant Sean DeMerchant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Fontana View Post
I'm looking for a cleaning system, expecting these to become mature, after spending a few 100 $ at canon's rep center - in 06, only...

Does anybody uses the Arctic Butterfly 724?
I tried a brush once and scrapped the dismal solution rapidly. In the first few tries I accidentally touched a spot in the mirror chamber with oils on it and wiped it all over the sensor. That was followed by about 10 wet cleanings (Pec Pads and Eclipse Fluid) to learn how and get the oils of the sensor. After a little practice the wet cleaning was relatively easy to do. The last time I cleaned my sensor it took 2 tries (once to clean the sensor and once to get the roving invisible hair/fiber out of the chamber).

If you go to http://www.copperhillimages.com/index.php?pr=products you can get the Basic Sensor Cleaning Kit for cheap (there is an alternative for outside the USA as shipping flammable fluids is not kosher across borders). Add on the cost of a clean tweezers for removing the Pec Pads from their packaging.

Albeit, the only time I have to clean the sensor is when mounting the macro lens as that is the only lens I stop down past f/8 on a regular basis.

enjoy your day,

Sean
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  #16  
Old March 11th, 2007, 05:42 PM
Michael Fontana Michael Fontana is offline
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Yep,
Dust-Aid looks promising, no liquid, no air bulb/vacuum cleaner, etc....
and looks easy to use.

Sean: as I' ve to stop down about f 11, dust can become a real hazzle, even worse for interiors with white walls
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  #17  
Old March 12th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Andrew Rodney Andrew Rodney is offline
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I checked this product out at PMA and it looks super. I even had them inspect my 5D and they saw two tiny dust spots which were too small to mess with (it was cleaned recently with the Arctic Butterfly). Since the two tiny spots were so small, I was told it wasn't necessary to clean the sensor. So having the ability to see the condition rather than arbitrarily cleaning the unit made a lot of sense to me.

I HAVE seen dust show up in images so this isn't a pile of nonsense. Fortunately a good tool like the clone tool in Lightroom fixes this but its better not to have the gunk in the first place. And you need something like a shot of a blue sky to see it in the image.

This looks like a great product. I'd love to get one. Just feel silly I dropped the same money on the Arctic Butterfly system.
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  #18  
Old March 12th, 2007, 09:09 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Andrew,

Did you see them clean anyone elses sensor or they just inspected?

Asher
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  #19  
Old March 13th, 2007, 02:58 AM
Sean DeMerchant Sean DeMerchant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Rodney View Post
I checked this product out at PMA and it looks super. I even had them inspect my 5D and they saw two tiny dust spots which were too small to mess with (it was cleaned recently with the Arctic Butterfly). Since the two tiny spots were so small, I was told it wasn't necessary to clean the sensor. So having the ability to see the condition rather than arbitrarily cleaning the unit made a lot of sense to me.

This makes no sense to me and it sounds like the marketing guys got to you. Just focus on infinity, mount a flash, set to f/14+ and your sync speed, focus on inifinity, and then take a photo of a white wall from a 10 cm away. Then look at your shot and see if there is any obvious dust.

I say this makes no sense as one can do the same this exact same test (looking for dust) with the mirror up, shutter open, no lens to protect the sensor, and even more dust, dead skin, pollen, and sneezes getting on your sensor using the new tool or less exposure using the old tool (your camera).

It does look like a cool tool for finding what dust to clean after the camera is opened, but it is a very poor choice of dust detection tool for deciding when to clean as it fails to account for both the optics and apertures you use and opens one up to sneezes (the guy 3 m behind you can hit your sensor with a sneeze) and other bodily functions (coughs, breathing, talking, ...) that emit particulate matter.

some thoughts,

Sean (who has cloned/healed way too many dust spots in boke* and a rare few in details)

* Dust spots are statistically unlikely to be a major issue in in focus areas where the relative collimation of light rays is high creating tiny shadows on the sensor unlike the huge shadows OoF light creates from tiny dust spots.
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  #20  
Old March 13th, 2007, 03:05 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Hi Sean,

In my humble, inexperienced to dust cleaning opinion, what you've written actually makes a lot of sense (logical, Captain!). Thanks for the insight, I will go test my 400D right away for dust using the method you've recommended :-).

Cheers,
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  #21  
Old March 13th, 2007, 07:55 AM
Andrew Rodney Andrew Rodney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Andrew,

Did you see them clean anyone elses sensor or they just inspected?

Asher
Actually no. The sample camera they had was filthily! But I can see how cleaning it would have made further demo's stop in their tracks.
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  #22  
Old March 13th, 2007, 07:58 AM
Andrew Rodney Andrew Rodney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean DeMerchant View Post
This makes no sense to me and it sounds like the marketing guys got to you. Just focus on infinity, mount a flash, set to f/14+ and your sync speed, focus on inifinity, and then take a photo of a white wall from a 10 cm away. Then look at your shot and see if there is any obvious dust.
.
With all due respect, duh! Its quite easy to find dust by shooting something, that's not the point. If you're got no computer (you're out in the field), trying to examine dust on the LCD takes far longer, isn't effective and then what? If you use the scope to inspect the camera and see the dust, you've got a battery operated vac to clean it up, on the spot.
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  #23  
Old March 13th, 2007, 08:35 AM
Sean DeMerchant Sean DeMerchant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Rodney View Post
With all due respect, duh! Its quite easy to find dust by shooting something, that's not the point. If you're got no computer (you're out in the field), trying to examine dust on the LCD takes far longer, isn't effective and then what? If you use the scope to inspect the camera and see the dust, you've got a battery operated vac to clean it up, on the spot.
It still makes no sense to me. Respectfully, I can shoot a shot, zoom in on the LCD and be half done with my inspection in the amount of time it takes to safely remove the lens. Accessing other tools (30-60 seconds to get out the viewer). 30 seconds to remove the lens and set it down safely. And exposing the mirror chamber to the environment (source of more dust & fibers) does not seem wise in any way whatsoever (i.e., it was clean but I checked to see if it was and got it dirty in the process).

Opening up the camera unnecessarily to see if it needs cleaning is simply not a good workflow practice. Albeit, the new hot mirror vibrators may fix much of that problem in the field (I do not have one and have not noted any reports on it).

I should also note that out in the field is someplace I would never clean a sensor. But nature (beach with salt spray, pollen in the forest, ...) and social events( people talking and spitting as we all do as we talk) are all terrible places for changing lenses. And rough places for clean lens changes are the last place I would clean the sensor as it is likely to come out in worse shape.

all the best,

Sean
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  #24  
Old March 13th, 2007, 08:37 AM
Andrew Rodney Andrew Rodney is offline
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OK so use that to look for dust. You STILL need to clean the thing and the kit comes with swabs and a vac (battery or USB). So don't use the loupe. It's only a small part of the entire package.

You have to open the camera to clean it right? So all the caveats you mention are still true. If you don't want dust, never remove the lens.
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  #25  
Old March 13th, 2007, 02:08 PM
samdring samdring is offline
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I had an old and broken 50mm lens; whipped out the innards and attached an adaptor for an industrial vacuum cleaner to the business end. Pinched a new muslin bag from the missus and wrapped the bag (dampened to prevent dust) around the camera and base of the now attached lens. Full power for 5 minutes or so does a wonderful job - you will be amazed at what you get out - some dust bunnies are shaped like diodes and others like a bunch of germaniums.
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  #26  
Old April 15th, 2007, 08:40 AM
David M. Dorn David M. Dorn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Slack View Post
Not to detract from the topic, but possibly some kind of aperture that closes when the lens is released could be rigged to close off the sensor chamber completely. I mean, this is a really big issue that isn't going away anytime soon. A "real" fix will have to present itself eventually.
The earlier Caonon PELLIX and later EOS RT series used a pellicle mirror to replace the mechanical reflex mirror. This eliminated the mirror lag, and provided uninterrupted viewing at the moment of exposure. In my RT I never noticed the slight reduction in viewfinder brightness.

An advantage for today's DSLRs would be that the pellicle mirror could seal the sensor chamber.
Assuming that the "shutter, mirror, sensor module" was assembled in a clean-room this should eliminate the "dust bunnies". I cleaned my RT pellicle mirror several times and never had a problem. One had to use a drft touch but it was possible.

For me a pellicle mirror would be perfect. In a long line of high-end film rangefinder and SLRs, the RT was my favorite, especiall for portraits where the elimination of blackout was a godsend.

P. S. This would also make live viewing possible using the main sensor with an appropriate shutter preview mode.
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  #27  
Old April 15th, 2007, 11:30 AM
KrisCarnmarker KrisCarnmarker is offline
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MR at Luminous-Landscape just reviewed the Delkin kit, and he seemed quite impressed with the scope, although no so much with the swabs and vacuum, etc.

I think a point to be made about the advantage of the scope over the "shoot a white image and check" method is that you can recheck the sensor after cleaning without having to put the lens back on and off repeatedly.

During the workshops we had here a while ago, Canon was kind enough to provide free cleaning to all participants, and not only the sensor, but the whole camera and lenses! Thank you Canon I finally got rid of that annoying spot on the viewfinder. Anyway, the technician was set up so we could see him work, and guess what? They used a scope to check for dust. It looked just like the Delkin SensorScope from afar, but I never thought to ask if it actually was one or if Canon has a similar tool for internal use. Regardless, if its good enough for someone who cleans sensors for a living, its good enough for me
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  #28  
Old April 15th, 2007, 03:22 PM
Nikolai Sklobovsky Nikolai Sklobovsky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samdring View Post
...attached an adaptor for an industrial vacuum cleaner to the business end...
Now, that's clever! [applaud sign on].
Shows one more time we need to think out of the box and don't ride on the "oh-we're-so-special-why-don't-you-use-our-makeup-brush-which-is-only-1,000%-more-expensive-than-the-one-you-can-buy-in-the-nearest-convenience-store-which-was-made-in-the-next-taiwan-or-korean-or-whatever-village" wagon...:-)
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