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  #1  
Old August 30th, 2007, 07:00 AM
Ralph Eisenberg Ralph Eisenberg is offline
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Default Capture One v4 Beta available

Just received an email from Phase One notifying me that Capture One 4 Beta is now avaliable for download

So it appears. I stumbled on this by chance and am presently downloading the file on my Mac.
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Last edited by Nicolas Claris; August 30th, 2007 at 03:57 PM. Reason: forbidden link, see my post below…
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  #2  
Old August 30th, 2007, 07:38 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Eisenberg View Post
So it appears. I stumbled on this by chance and am presently downloading the file on my Mac.
Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure yet how that works together with the installed version. Have to do some reading first before I embark.

… there's an introduction to Capture One 4.

Bart

Last edited by Nicolas Claris; August 30th, 2007 at 03:58 PM. Reason: forbidden link, see my post below…
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  #3  
Old August 30th, 2007, 07:59 AM
Ralph Eisenberg Ralph Eisenberg is offline
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Well, on even an older display (that is not one of the recent very high resolution displays) the UI is difficult to read. This is a Beta but.... I fear that things are already etched in stone. My feeling is that this is a regression from C1 Pro 3.7.7 in terms of visual ease of use. They did bring in the original v1 (Mac) hard drive navigation.

I tried the Curves tool in the exposure panel, I think that it is a regression from the current C1 Pro . But then this is a beta.... I'm sure that we will be seeing an ACR 4.1 point-Curves tool with keyboard navigation.
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  #4  
Old August 30th, 2007, 08:15 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Ralph does it install OK side-by-side with v3.7.7 and leave that version intact?

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  #5  
Old August 30th, 2007, 08:22 AM
Marc Hankins Marc Hankins is offline
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I'm gonna give this a shot on my pc and compare it to Capture One LE. I'll tell you how it goes down later..

[EDIT] Having a very quick glance, it looks a little more efficient to edit your photos, it's also very pretty. However there are a few niggles.

1) There's no automated way to place processed photos in a folder within the originating folder. Eh?! Please tell me this is me being stupid!

2) On my 1280x1024 18 inch monitor, the slides are way too small for precise adjustments. You need to type numbers in.

3) it's not clear how to get a full screen preview.

Having not used Adobes RAW software Phase One has been my favorite since Rawshooter was shut down (grrr....) so I'd love to see at least numbers 1 and 3 resolved.

Also, it installs independently of other versions, so it's all safe to install.
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Last edited by Marc Hankins; August 30th, 2007 at 09:20 AM.
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  #6  
Old August 30th, 2007, 09:51 AM
John_Nevill John_Nevill is offline
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Default Capture One 4 beta available

Just received an email from Phase One notifying me that Capture One 4 Beta is now avaliable for download

Last edited by Nicolas Claris; August 30th, 2007 at 04:00 PM. Reason: merged threads! We don't delete :) - EDIT 2: forbidden link, see my post below
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  #7  
Old August 30th, 2007, 10:03 AM
Ralph Eisenberg Ralph Eisenberg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nill Toulme View Post
Ralph does it install OK side-by-side with v3.7.7 and leave that version intact?

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I think so. I'm running it on a backup of my system and a CURSORY appraisal suggests that there is no interference with 3.7.7 on the Mac. I quite rapidly returned to the earlier version as this seems to be a very early beta the UI of which was extremely taxing on my eyesight, and my display is not the most recent generation.

I think that an effort has been made to limit the "system invasiveness" of the v. 4 Beta, to my mind exemplified by the fact that the color profiles for the application are now kept apart - in OSX in the application package -contents- resources folder - and not installed in the usual place.
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  #8  
Old August 30th, 2007, 03:07 PM
Don Lashier Don Lashier is offline
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The features list sounds great - going home to try it out now.

fwiw I've -always- kept two versions of C1 installed (latest and previous) pointed to the same preview folder with no problem aside from once when the preview file format changed. All I had to do was install to a different folder. Given the significant changes I'll play it safe and not share the previews this time.

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  #9  
Old August 30th, 2007, 04:04 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Sorry guys but all beta testers should have read this statement they did agree when signing:

Quote:
Terms and conditions
As mentioned previously this is beta software, which means that it could potentially contain serious bugs.
You use this software at your own risk, and Phase One recommends you to follow proper backup procedures for your data and application disks. Please read the sentence again. We cannot be responsible for any issues or loss of data.
As the software is not released yet, we can’t provide you with any support on the beta software.
All information in the beta test phase is confidential and by signing up as a beta tester you agree to not distribute the software in any form or discuss any issues that go on during the beta test.
…bold and red are mine.

OPF as a public and open space and website cannot allow any member to provide forbidden link, sorry for that guys!
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  #10  
Old August 30th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Oui Nicolas, mais... this is a public beta linked right off the front page of Phase One's website. I don't think typical beta confidentiality can or should be expected to apply in this case, red print notwithstanding. Note that MR, who's pretty circumspect about that sort of thing, has already posted a preview article on his website.

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  #11  
Old August 30th, 2007, 04:17 PM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lashier View Post
The features list sounds great - going home to try it out now.
Looking at the interface differences between 3.77 and 4.0 beta (for Windows), yes it's certainly an improvement (and it's faster in displaying the image/thumbnails), but long overdue. It merely narrows the gap with Lightroom (which is richer in post-processing features).

My major gripe is that there is still no CA correction (to name only one thing) possible from within C1. That means I still need to run the result through Photoshop, which hurts productivity.

Bart
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  #12  
Old August 30th, 2007, 04:36 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nill Toulme View Post
Oui Nicolas, mais... this is a public beta linked right off the front page of Phase One's website. I don't think typical beta confidentiality can or should be expected to apply in this case, red print notwithstanding. Note that MR, who's pretty circumspect about that sort of thing, has already posted a preview article on his website.

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Oups! sorry guys, I'll be beaten thousands of time, Nill is right… so the link is here

I just wonder why they do have this strict policy and do infringe it themselves…
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  #13  
Old August 30th, 2007, 05:10 PM
Don Lashier Don Lashier is offline
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I can understand keeping quiet about closed betas and I always have in the past, but with an open beta this is an unreasonable expectation.

- DL
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  #14  
Old August 30th, 2007, 07:27 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Angry Not good corporate behavior!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Sorry guys but all beta testers should have read this statement they did agree when signing:


…bold and red are mine.

OPF as a public and open space and website cannot allow any member to provide forbidden link, sorry for that guys!
Yes, it does sound threatening on the Phase One Website! UGH!!!

So how about this critique ?

I doubt they can do anything about it but it is worrysome for OPF!

I'll try to get some legal insight!

I hate this attitude:
  1. No free or discount software!
  2. No aknowledgement of mail promised!
  3. Use at your own risk!
  4. Expect you may lose your data!
  5. Don't let anyone know any faults!

Asher
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  #15  
Old August 30th, 2007, 11:56 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Be carefull when comparing the beta with previous version, many features that are in C1 pro are not in the beta, because it is a ……………LE! version

read here
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  #16  
Old August 31st, 2007, 01:19 AM
Don Lashier Don Lashier is offline
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About the only feature I use in Pro that's not in LE is arbitrary rotation, and I just found that it's in the beta.

Aside from the change in the look, which other than the small icons others have mentioned I rather like, I find that from a functional aspect PhaseOne has implmented every single feature on my wish list - guess they've been listening.

- n-up display
- multi-level rating
- multiple adjustment sets of same image
- previews/settings now stored locally with images (better for archiving)
- crop tool now adapts to orientation (portrait/landscape)!

If you set tools on right and thumbs on the left it's almost familiar. I'd prefer the old word tabs to the icons but if the icons were made larger I'd be ok. I wish they'd either let you panel several tool sets or construct a custom one (maybe the do, haven't dug that deep yet), but I'm ok with the existing setup as my workflow usually involves one panel at a time working through the images anyway.

I like the additional flexibility of the new levels tool. I've only briefly experiemented with the HDR tools but they seem promising.

The big question that remains is how much of a market still exists for a tool without asset management, but otoh maybe that's a feature of the upcoming pro version and in any case, for me image quality is paramount and C1 still rules.

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  #17  
Old August 31st, 2007, 02:12 AM
Ralph Eisenberg Ralph Eisenberg is offline
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Don,

I find that the Curves tool has not been enhanced, and this was highest on my list (I'm a fan of the point-Curves in ACR 4.1 as opposed to Lightroom).

The rotation tool for me does not function as in C1 Pro, Mac version, where double clicking on the icon in the toolbar would summon up a dialogue box allowing you to carry out the rotation adjustment by small numerical increments from the keyboard's up and down arrows.

Similarly, I find that I can't adjust WB from the keyboard in small increments, and have been unsuccessful doing so using the sliders.
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  #18  
Old August 31st, 2007, 02:26 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Thumbs down PhaseOne needs to update their communications policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
I hate this attitude:
  1. No free or discount software!
  2. No aknowledgement of mail promised!
Well, the upgrade is free for recent buyers, and we don't know the final conditions for earlier buyers yet. I did receive a mail, but only after it was all over the internet already.

Quote:
  • Use at your own risk!
  • Expect you may lose your data!
  • Don't let anyone know any faults!
Well, apart from normal warnings for a Beta version, that last one is what I call Phase One's clam shell communication policy, a poor business practice that will hurt rather than help. A modern company would solicit and accommodate/streamline the feedback.

For example, Rawshooter Premium was improved based on (free Essentials) user feedback, and they hooked up with Michael Tapes to streamline the communications in their forums. From a marketing/communications point of view, they did a brilliant job, even to the point that it resulted in Adobe to issue a public Beta program, and now Phase One feels forced to do something similar, and their discomfort shows.

Let's hope that the Raw conversion quality stays top notch, and that they come to their senses about modern communication practices.

Bart
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  #19  
Old August 31st, 2007, 05:51 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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I don't think they really mean that last bullet. As far as I can tell the beta forums are open to the public, warts and all.

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  #20  
Old August 31st, 2007, 12:37 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Well, the upgrade is free for recent buyers, and we don't know the final conditions for earlier buyers yet. I did receive a mail, but only after it was all over the internet already.



Hi Bart, something went wrong… you're commenting Asher's post, not mine!
No prob anyway ;-)
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  #21  
Old August 31st, 2007, 02:30 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Here's my take

I downloaded it this morning…

Beta 4 is still a premise of LE (only).

Personnaly I think it is really promising, I have it running on a MacPro and immediately used it for processing pics for brochures, the results are stunning to me…
OK, some crashes, but it's a beta…
These crashes appear mostly with files loaded individually thru the control click "open with…"), I get much less crashes when using the import function.

The HDR is working remarkably, producing no halo.

After some trials, I've decided to keep auto controls of sharpness and noise reduction, images rendered are soooo clean!

A lot of functions are lacking, but I wait for a more stable version and above all for the pro one, but, hey, it just came out yesterday!
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  #22  
Old September 7th, 2007, 08:14 AM
Ralph Eisenberg Ralph Eisenberg is offline
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I'm also impressed by the quality of the conversions, now that I'm able to get some without program crashes. I'm looking forward to the Pro version (which I hope will have a real Curves tool, specifically a point-Curves tool). I can't wait to get back to Paris and make some prints of the images. I have the feeling that they've been able to get a bit more detail from 1Ds2 files.
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  #23  
Old September 7th, 2007, 09:27 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Eisenberg View Post
I have the feeling that they've been able to get a bit more detail from 1Ds2 files.
Hi Ralph

your feeling is… right!

shrpening, enlarging, anti-fringe: much better.

of course, as you, I'm awaiting the pro version!

The more crashes I've had is when opening a file from the finder (or anywhere else folder) with control click "open with Capture One".
The software is much more stable when one uses the C1 browser to get to the files.

And no more terabytes of previews to store!
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  #24  
Old September 9th, 2007, 04:33 PM
scott kirkpatrick scott kirkpatrick is offline
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Default 4.0 on a windows PC

I had a crash the first time I used it, none since. Haven't given it much work to do yet. I moved into unknown territory by using it on some GX-100 files. These are conforming .dng files from a camera that PhaseOne has not profiled. In the past, they would have refused to see such files, but Lightroom's willingness to have a go with the embedded color profile in the .dng seems to have forced to Phase to come along.

The thing that I miss with 4.0's introduction that Raw Shooter did very well was to have a well-written instruction manual available at the introduction of Essentials. There's a short video on the PO website, but nothing to refer to when all the icons look the same and you are stuck. The help at the moment consists only of a short list of keyboard short-cuts (something PO has never completely tabulated).

scott
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  #25  
Old September 29th, 2007, 02:37 PM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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You can't shoot tethered and also no raw processing of multiple files (I make one at 63MB and a smaller file for my clients to use with their email)

But.. the new "More detail in Shadows/More detail in Highlights" tool I already used it one time when I had to shoot a black and white piece.



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