Direct Print rant

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

Will Canon ever get the idea that nobody (except its own marketing people, probably) needs a direct print button?
And even if it's such a big political issue, can it PLEASE be customizeable? I mean how hard can it be to change its behaviour via firmware update?
Please, please, make it usable for the rest of the world!

[Torsten Kötting]

it makes one furious doesnt it?

while Nikon puts their pro-Af module, without any real need, into the D300 we Canon-folks fight since years for a reassign-function of the direct-print button ... it tells something about Canon ...

[Will Thompson]

The funny thing is no one asked for a direct print button. Yet many have asked for a MLU "Mirror Lock Up" button.

[Torsten Kötting]

Originally Posted by Will Thompson

The funny thing is no one asked for a direct print button. Yet many have asked for a MLU "Mirror Lock Up" button.

and doesnt the 40D feature a dedicated picture-style button now?

[Will Thompson]

Originally Posted by Torsten Kötting

and doesnt the 40D feature a dedicated picture-style button now?

Yes, and it seems that soon these lo-end SLR's will soon blink 12:00 all the time due to the fact no one can program them.

[Ben Rubinstein]

Originally Posted by Will Thompson

Yes, and it seems that soon these lo-end SLR's will soon blink 12:00 all the time due to the fact no one can program them.

That's true enough, ever try working through all the CF's of a 1 series? I had the 1Ds which was tame by todays standards!

[Torsten Kötting]

Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein

That's true enough, ever try working through all the CF's of a 1 series? I had the 1Ds which was tame by todays standards!

well, if all those CFs contain useful customization functions then its ok ... but all the stuff that none needs ... imho a serious photographer shoots raw and thats it. Picture styles are of no use ... at least for me ...

[Jack Joseph Jr]

Originally Posted by Torsten Kötting

well, if all those CFs contain useful customization functions then its ok ... but all the stuff that none needs ... imho a serious photographer shoots raw and thats it. Picture styles are of no use ... at least for me ...

A huge majority of the pictures that I shoot for money, or should I say shoot "seriously" for money are JPGs. Picture styles are very important since the lighting and color determine the picture style.

And let's be honest about this RAW stuff. Raw files are not pictures at all. When you process RAW you are using a picture style. Right now I'm working on last night's college soccer. I'm using CR4.0 to process RAW and my chosen settings are, in deed, an Adobe picture style. The last family RAWs that I processed were done by DPP3.1 using various combos of Standard and Monochrome. Those are Canon picture styles.

Whether you use Adobe or Canon or Bibble or Phase One you are always using a modification of somebody's version of what the image should decode like, IOW a picture style. Let's be done with the RAW=Pro/JPG=Not-Pro BS. OK?

[Ben Rubinstein]

Jpg's are pro, for a certain segment of the pro market. Journalists, sports shooters, some studio photographers, etc. I can't see that much wrong with picture styles or a button to access them. On the other hand it will be rare that you will need to change picture styles faster than going through the menu to do it. Changing from MLU and back needs faster, as fast as changing the WB for example.

Personally I've always found the canon ergonomics far too button orientated, the Nikon method, especially for AF modes and metering is just far faster to use in the field with a camera to your eye than the 'press button, twiddle dial, half press shutter to confirm' of Canon, nevermind the 1 series pre-MkIII where you needed two fingers.

I was always jelous of my photographic teacher and mentor who would switch between AI Servo and regular focus on his Nikon's using the index finger of his left hand while adjusting the zoom of his lens and having his right hand free to concentrate on the focus and triggering of the shutter, all with his camera to his eye, all while mid shooting. Just couldn't do that with Canon...

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

Originally Posted by Torsten Kötting

and doesnt the 40D feature a dedicated picture-style button now?

Oh, yeah, right, another one.. Hail Mary! We have so much space to waste for never-to-use direct buttons. No dedicated ISO, no dedicated MLU, but DirectPrint, Picture Styles... Next's gonna be what - Digital Zoom?
Arrgh...
I hope somebody from Canon is listening ;-)

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

"Maybe" you can describe how you indend to use it? I'm honestly curious. Printing a non-processed image straight from the camera without even looking at it (I mean, even a 3" LCD *is* a joke) - what kind of a hurry shall one be in?

[Kathy Rappaport]

I voted for the 2nd Maybe. Last year Woodland Hills Camera had a class for professional photographers put on by Canon. That class was two days and was beyond awesome. Not that the communication was a two way street but we went over much of the custom functions; we got to review all the lenses in Canon's line up; and we spent an hour or so on print and direct print. Oh and we had a whole session of DPP and Zoom Browser. Which most of the pros were ignoring.

If you were a school photographer it could be a really cool feature. Actually, I schemed up a fund raising event where I was going to have an assistant print the images I took and then have people pay for the 4x6 image. - well, little to my amazement, I did not know about Direct Print. Yes, it could require you to look at the image differently before you took it. You would probably need to shoot jpg. I haven't looked to see if it direct prints to raw. But it eliminates the need to always use the computer.

Maybe it's worth testing out this next weekend. Nik, I have a little Selphy printer with Direct Print that will fit in my suitcase. (Nik, we can direct print!) so there is one of the MAYBE's.

Oh, I went to the Denist this week. They used a Macro lens and yes, they did direct print. Wanna see the images of my teeth?

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

Thanks, Kathy!
Oh well, I guess you have a point.
But I still would like this button to be customizeable :-)

[Ivan Garcia]

I have used canon digital from the 300D to my MKIII
I can tell you the 300D have no problems printing to a small cp220 so did my 20D, and those cameras did it without the direct print button.
I am with Nick on this one, I would much prefer that button to be customizable, and I specially would like to see a mirror lockup button.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Kathy Rappaport

If you were a school photographer it could be a really cool feature.

Actually, I think most school photographers are more interested in multiple reprints at various sizes. That'll require some thinking on the part of the client.
I do think there are forms of e.g. theme-park photography that could justify a direct print functionality, although it's more likely to be an integral part of a more elaborate system (there may also be tax issues that need to be administered).

I've been told that in Japan the direct print button is popular amongst people with only a printer and no computer. It also solves issues with incompatible printer drivers, e.g. with MS Vista. Anyway, a user programmable button function would be the better solution.

Bart

[Ivan Garcia]

Hi Bart.
I understand not everyone has a computer.
Still, I have printed directly to my prixma 5000 via usb, and the menus on my 20D. So I don´t see the point on the button in question.
They bury MLU in the menus, just like printing from the camera was.
Now we have direct print dedicated button, yet no MLU.
This rant about MLU dedicated button has been going on for ages. I recon, Canon´s just been obtuse about it.

[Tim Gray]

Useless as... (to me)

but I recall a note from some time ago that indicated the direct print functionality is used (often enough to warrant it's inclusion - I'm paraphrasing here) in Japan.

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

Originally Posted by Tim Gray

Useless as... (to me)

but I recall a note from some time ago that indicated the direct print functionality is used (often enough to warrant it's inclusion - I'm paraphrasing here) in Japan.

Sure, with Canon being a Japanese company.. it does make sense.

My biggest grudge with it: direct buttons are best suited to do something REALLY fast. Menus are for something you have time to do. Direct printing involves using the camera as the control device. This means: you can't actually shoot at the same time. So, assistant or not, you don't save anytime for shooting because you're not shooting. Simply having a printer that takes media cards (there are plenty) would do the trick, allowing an assitant to print and a shooter to shoot.
I can understand a need to change picture styles quickly (for those who shoots jpegs). But a need to start a print several seconds faster, with printing itself taking several minutes, beats me as an engineer, a shooter and simply a reasonable human being...

[John Stitt]

It can be done. The print button on the G9 is assinable to another function, so why will they not put out a software upgrade that lets us assign the print button on the 5D to another function. It is as useless as breasts on a bore hog! And it would be so easy to do and make so many customers so pleased with Canon.

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

Originally Posted by John Stitt

It can be done. The print button on the G9 is assinable to another function, so why will they not put out a software upgrade that lets us assign the print button on the 5D to another function. It is as useless as breasts on a bore hog! And it would be so easy to do and make so many customers so pleased with Canon.

Really? Awesome!
Maybe there is a hope for the rest of us poor canon dslr users, and the next firmware will come with a couple of new Custom Functions, one for Print, another for Picture Styles - another useless one on 40D IMNSHO;-)

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Nik,

This is an important subject. A good poll which should still be open!

The opening of the direct print button to someuseful function is part of a generic problem. We have no access to the firmware. PC makers benefit from the unique software tens of tousands of programmers stay up all night to think up! How stupid is it to have a closed hardware to which programmers have no access?

Asher

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

Hi Nik,

This is an important subject. A good poll which should still be open!

The opening of the direct print button to someuseful function is part of a generic problem. We have no access to the firmware. PC makers benefit from the unique software tens of tousands of programmers stay up all night to think up! How stupid is it to have a closed hardware to which programmers have no access?

Asher

I wish I knew how to reopen the poll, but even my Mod Power does not seem to be able to help.

As to the open API for the firmware, I guess they are afraid that tons of rookies start modifying the stuff, thus raking havoc on the unsuspected customers, which in turn start pounding on Canon techsupport and blame Canon for the issues. Firmware is very much like device drivers, which is usually a dirty and ugly business. One tiny error - and your $8,000 camera is nothing but a paperweight...

I actually have no problem with Canon doing the firmware, I only have a problem with Canon not listening...:-(

[Asher Kelman]

Originally Posted by Nikolai Sklobovsky

As to the open API for the firmware, I guess they are afraid that tons of rookies start modifying the stuff, thus raking havoc on the unsuspected customers, which in turn start pounding on Canon techsupport and blame Canon for the issues. Firmware is very much like device drivers, which is usually a dirty and ugly business. One tiny error - and your $8,000 camera is nothing but a paperweight...

I actually have no problem with Canon doing the firmware, I only have a problem with Canon not listening...:-(

I think that the provision of an SDK for access to the firmware to developers could be revolutionary and bring tremendous new functionality to the cameras, just like software for the PC. Just as we cannot go to IBM or Dell because there is a bug in Microsoft Word, so Canon would not deal with firmware other than their own. However, as 3rd party firmware developed, the need for even more sophisticated cameras would evolve, thus increasing further the sale of DSLR's.

Asher

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

I think that the provision of an SDK for access to the firmware to developers could be revolutionary and bring tremendous new functionality to the cameras, just like software for the PC. Just as we cannot go to IBM or Dell because there is a bug in Microsoft Word, so Canon would not deal with firmware other than their own. However, as 3rd party firmware developed, the need for even more sophisticated cameras would evolve, thus increasing further the sale of DSLR's.

Asher

Amen! Hope somebody from Canon *is* listening! ;-)

[Asher Kelman]

I have switched on the polling option. Anyone registered, if If you have not already voted, tell me if the poll is now in fact open to you to vote?

Asher

[Mike Bailey]

Though I voted no, I would vote "maybe" if the thing could have a custom function assigned as others have already suggested too. Then, of course, everyone that really needed to print directly could go right ahead and assign that function to the button.

Mike

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Mike. did you just vote?

Asher

[Ken Tanaka]

You might as well get comfy with this absolutely ridiculous feature, folks.

The Japanese are a very, very hard-headed (i.e. closed-minded) people. Once an elder (i.e. senior manager sitting furthest from the door in conference rooms) decides that a print button is required on cameras it will be so until that manager is fired or disembowels himself. In the case of king-of-the-hill Canon no other company could even shame them into changing the design.

But polls and jabber on sites like this are often noticed and do help encourage change. (Witness the G9 featuring RAW image capture, previously removed from all Canon P&S cameras.)

-Ken TANAKA-

[Mike Bailey]

Asher, I just voted before you asked me if I had just voted, but since that was yesterday, the "just" part of it probably doesn't mean much.

As for close-mindedness, I think it's a malady that's shared by most people (read: institutions, businesses, governments) around the world, very unfortunately.

Mike

[Ray West]

It's a question of how the print button is implemented - e.g. it may be hard wired in, not firmware programmable in some cameras. Also, the camera, similar to most pc operating systems, for example, is more or less a one-size fit-all device. There's lot's of stuff not needed by everybody. Also, USB3 is on the horizon. Also, at the moment, USB2 needs a pc or similar to act as a 'server', the camera is a client - except when direct printing, when magically, the camera becomes the server. So, it's just a step in the evolution towards the interconnectivity that will be in the future. So, connect direct to mass storage device, phone, gps, robotic well drilling control system, missile targeting, whatever it may be used for. The excitement is completely underwhelming. ;-) ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray