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  #1  
Old October 28th, 2007, 03:40 AM
Steve Saunders Steve Saunders is offline
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Default 1DIII to be pulled from shelves!

Got the info here; http://nikonwatch.com/

Here is the basic info I read, credit to Nikonwatch;

"Canon Pulls EOS-1D Mark III from Shelves due to Focus Problem!
October 27th, 2007
Wow! Things have apparently gotten bad enough with the MarkIII that Canonís taking it off the shelves and (rumors say) likely going to recall all the ones that are out there.

I want to applaud Canon for doing whatís require to correct their machines though, I hope Nikon would be brave enough to do something similar, if required.

Hereís a link to a UK letter to a retailer asking them to remove the camera from the shelves;

http://www.fjphotography.com/pdf/EOS1DMARKIII.pdf

In order to ensure that the customer experience is not damaged, and as a responsible company, Canon has decided to stop the shipment of all EOS-1D Mark III. We would therefore like to collect all unsold EOS-1D Mark III units from your stock. Ö"
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  #2  
Old October 28th, 2007, 09:06 AM
ron_hiner ron_hiner is offline
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Something smells fishy about this.

If Canon were really recalling cameras, would this be the way they would announce it? And wouldn't they check the letter for typos? Doesn't letterhead generally have contact info?

Ron

p.s. I trust Rob Galbraith's notes on the subject far more than I would trust NikonWatch.com.

Last edited by ron_hiner; October 28th, 2007 at 09:11 AM. Reason: added ps
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  #3  
Old October 28th, 2007, 10:20 AM
Ray West Ray West is offline
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Hi Ron,

Well, IBM, for example, are pretty lax wrt contact info/dates/references to the stuff they sent out. The 01... phone number goes to a voice mail for 'Ian Bigwood', so I guess he may be getting a call or too on Monday, if he exists.

Easy enough to spoof this sort of thing, easy enough to prove it one way or another, but only during normal office working hours, if anyone wants to bother. Probably gives a bit of excitement over the weekend for some folk.

Best wishes,

Ray
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  #4  
Old October 29th, 2007, 04:13 AM
Steve Saunders Steve Saunders is offline
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The Nikonwatch.com site usually gets the nail on the head with these things, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Mind you I'd believe it more if it was posted on the RG site as well, as he usually gets Canon news first.
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  #5  
Old October 29th, 2007, 04:25 AM
Steve Saunders Steve Saunders is offline
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Okay I just sent an email to RG so he can look into this.
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  #6  
Old October 29th, 2007, 06:18 AM
Ray West Ray West is offline
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Default Latest Info

I have received a phone call, return of the one I made earlier, from Mr. Ian Bigwood. He has confirmed that the letter to dealers is from canon, that they are recalling the mk3's. I spoke with him for quite a while. I asked how did I know he was from Canon so he sent me the following email. I had said that I would publish here, which was OK by him.

However, as far as he knows, this only applies to the cameras in the UK.


Best wishes,

Ray
Quote:

Good morning Ray,

As you can see you were talking to someone who does work at Canon UK!

Kind regards.........Ian.

Ian Bigwood.
Senior Administration Officer.
Canon Consumer Imaging.


[IMG]mailbox:///C%7C/Documents%20and%20Settings/Ray/Application%20Data/Thunderbird/Profiles/b2hggh7s.default/Mail/Local%20Folders/Inbox?number=40936369&part=1.1.2[/IMG]
http://www.canon.co.uk

Canon (UK) Ltd. Registered Office - Woodhatch, Reigate, Surrey, RH2 8BF
Registered in England & Wales Registered No. 1264300

This email may contain confidential information which is intended for the required recipient only. If you are not the named recipient you should not take any action in relation to this email, other than to notify us that you have received it in error. If this email contains attachments you should ensure they are checked for viruses before opening them.
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  #7  
Old October 29th, 2007, 09:36 AM
John_Nevill John_Nevill is offline
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I passed the pdf onto a couple of mates and one of them also phoned Canon UK (CPS) today.

They stated that they currently have very little information regarding how the actual fix/repair will be handled and asked him to send in some images.

They also said that a statement will be published on the CPS website in a week or so along with a list of serial numbers of those 1DMkIIIs affected.

Incidently, the focus lock up issue (I've encountered) was also known about.
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  #8  
Old October 29th, 2007, 12:12 PM
leonardobarreto.com leonardobarreto.com is offline
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So the Mk3 is vacuumed from the shelfs while the Nikon D3 is about to come in. Is this good news for Nikon or what?

One other question while we are in topic: Is Canon going to replace the 1DsMk2 with the 1DsMk3?

I think that they should leave that one as it is in case they have problems with the cramming of 22megapixels in such small real state. If they are successful they can go after the backs, but if they don't, there is no fall back since the Mk2 would also not be there and the 12MP LX D3 could also occupy the space of the discontinued 16mp at only 4megapixel difference.

This may be the comeback of Nikon with a vengeance.

(disclaimer: not intentionally provoking Canon base in a troll)
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  #9  
Old October 29th, 2007, 12:51 PM
John_Nevill John_Nevill is offline
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With the price on 1DsMkIIs now sitting at £3500 from HK, it couldn't be a better time to get one, while stocks last.
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  #10  
Old October 29th, 2007, 02:04 PM
Ray West Ray West is offline
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Hi Leonardo,

The pdf linked to, in Steve's first post, refers only to the UK situation. As you are aware, Canon UK is a franchise operation, it could well be that Canon USA have a different way of doing things.

Having to read between the lines a bit, it seems that canon UK are recalling all the unsold cameras, so they will then be more able to ascertain the serial number ranges of the faulty units. This is the simplest way of determining the size of the problem, and work out the best way of handling it. I expect, depending on what they find, they can then selectively recall the customer units. Of course, they can not deal with the problem, until they actually have a grasp of the problem.

I have no idea as to what has been gained by a UK Canon dealer (I guess) releasing an internal memo. If he had any balls, he would have put his name to it. Hopefully Canon UK can carry on with whatever they planned in smoothly handling repairs, instead of their staff having to waste time fire fighting individual customer queries.

I have no loyalty to any manufacturer, but I do think the feeding frenzy over this has been ridiculous. In truth, I suspect many of the problems are due to user error, not surprising, since these are complex machines, operating at the limits of technology, designed by folk who probably never use them.

Best wishes,

Ray
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  #11  
Old November 1st, 2007, 01:01 PM
Steve Saunders Steve Saunders is offline
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Okay folks, here it is on DPR;

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0711/07...3statement.asp
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  #12  
Old November 1st, 2007, 05:00 PM
Steve Saunders Steve Saunders is offline
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Here is the link directly to the relevent Canon announcement;

https://self-service.canon-europe.com/uk/pages/

Looking at the serial numbers, it's obvious that ALL of the 1DMkIII's are included. I got one of the last ones just a few weeks back, number 54XXXX and even that one is included in the recall. Someone else I know got one that 10 days ago and it is 128 numbers inside the range, so I believe that every single 1DIII will be due for a call to Canon, even if the owners think they are fine. Better safe than sorry I suppose.
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  #13  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 09:08 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Saunders View Post
Here is the link directly to the relevent Canon announcement;

https://self-service.canon-europe.com/uk/pages/

Looking at the serial numbers, it's obvious that ALL of the 1DMkIII's are included.
Steve, nothing personal but I think something is wrong with the reading comprehension of a lot of people (especially on DPreview, where most of the whiners don't even have a Mark III).

As Canon states (emphasis added by me):"In the digital SLR camera, EOS-1D Mark III that was launched in May this year, Canon has found that some cameras have an adjustment problem with the mirror for AF. The adjustment problem means for the affected products that the focus is not stable or that the Auto Focus tracking is not right when using the AI servo continuous shooting under high temperatures in particular".

They continue with:"Affected products: The products that could have this problem can be identified as explained below. If the serial number on the bottom of the camera is between 501001 and 546561, it could contain one of the AF mirrors with the adjustment problem".

Quote:
I got one of the last ones just a few weeks back, number 54XXXX and even that one is included in the recall.
It's IMHO not a recall in the common sense of the word. There are people without any issues, and there are those with issues. Apparently, for some weeks already, Canon have been producing cameras with the adjusted mirror assembly and now are confident enough (after the results became available) to issue a formal service statement. The only uncertainty for recent buyers is whether the supply/stock pipeline, which was pretty empty due to demand, was flushed at the time of purchase.

Quote:
Someone else I know got one that 10 days ago and it is 128 numbers inside the range, so I believe that every single 1DIII will be due for a call to Canon, even if the owners think they are fine. Better safe than sorry I suppose.
While I sympathize with current owners and I do understand their uneasy feeling, most of the anxiety only exists 'between their ears'. What evidence is there that, "even if the owners think they are fine", they are not fine? That is not rational behavior, it's mass hysteria!

Let's keep the level of discussion at OPF well above that of DPreview (and that's not too difficult). IMHO, a much more constructive approach would be to devise a method to check whether one's unit is affected, or not.

My suggestion would be to first check focus accuracy on a flat surface, perpendicular to the optical axis.
1. Does the camera accurately and consistently/repeatedly focus (single shot focus) on a detailed subject such as a newspaper page? This can be used to check with a single focus sensor, or with multiple sensors. Just put the paper on the floor, and use a tripod to point straight down, and use a wide aperture (f/2.8 is best). One can make sure that the paper surface and focus plane are parallel, by using a mirror during setup (just center the reflection of the lens in the image). When the focus is accurate and doesn't hunt, you don't have a problem, and you are unlikely to have one in the future (according to Canon, which I'd agree has a credibility issue for now).
2. Repeat with shooting at a 45 degree (or so) angle, and using a single focus sensor. Do consider that anything covered by the focus sensor, which extends beyond the red symbol in the viewfinder, can be considered as focus point. How consistent is focus now? If it's consistent, you don't have a problem.
3. Repeat the above with AI focus, does it hunt? If it doesn't, you don't have a problem.

Vary your test conditions based on the amount of lighting, and temperature, and repeat the above. If focus is repeatedly accurate, you don't have a problem.

When you do have a problem, post a complaint with Canon because you'll have to wait for your turn and first come, first served. Serial numbers by themselves don't say a lot, because they are not necessarily issued sequentially.
You may also want to check for a date code in black ink in the battery compartment or behind the CF card door (where ever it's hidden on the Mark III). I suppose it is similarly formatted to the lens codes.

Good luck and relax,
Bart
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  #14  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:27 PM
Don Cohen Don Cohen is offline
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Bart,

While your comments are quite reasonable, I know that if I owned one, I would send it in for repair, even if I was not detecting any problems whatsoever, for no other reason than to maintain its resale value. I don't think any knowledgeable photographer would be willing to buy one that had not had the official fix.

I've been shooting with the Mk2 for a couple of years now, and was looking forward to a possible Mk3 upgrade. I usually wait a few months to make sure there aren't any major problems found, and I'm sure glad I did in this case.

Now that things are settling down, and once the new cameras are out and tested, I might once again consider buying one.
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  #15  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:28 PM
Steve Saunders Steve Saunders is offline
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I understand what you are saying Bart. Don sums this up well in the first paragraph of his last post.
I don't have a problem with either of my MkIII's, or if there is one then I'm not seeing it. But I would still be sending them on for the fix/inspection/recall or whatever Canon are calling it simply because of a niggling doubt that something might go wrong with the AF later on if I don't send them in. It's obvious from the serial numbers that Canon want to look at ALL of the MkIII's in circulation.
I'll wait for a while until I know that the fix actually benefits the cameras. I'll be watching Rob Galbraith's site very keenly for the testing stage!
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  #16  
Old November 5th, 2007, 01:22 PM
Steve Saunders Steve Saunders is offline
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Just an update on this. The recall is already in operation. I was in my camera shop today buying rubbish and was told to drop my cameras in whenever I'm ready, but if I wait a few weeks the shop will have loaners for me.
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