John Hollenberg
New member
On the Luminous Landscape:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/IPF5000-report.shtml
--John
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/IPF5000-report.shtml
--John
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Canon IPF5000 User Experience Report
- Thread starter John Hollenberg
- Start date
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
John,
That's serious stuff you have written that, (Chuck take note) many people who have dedicated themselves to being first out of the gaqte with the new Canon printers are disgruntled.
There appears to be a huge disconnect between what is and what should be.
To hear that when a littany of things fail in a D.O.A. printers (coaxed by attempted fixes to gasp for air before collapsing again), should give a Caon USA service response of "It's within specifications" (echo of back-focus issues) is so disappointing, sad and infuriating.
It boggles the mind that a massive company does not try to compete on service when Epson will simply send a new printer to arrive in 48hrs.
Worse, since I was planning to get the 60" printer!
There's no way I want to be stranded with several hundered pounds of dead steel for months on end!
There has to be a guarantee of service, on site and withing 24 hours or else why buy the printer in the first place!
It disappoints me but I can see that a lot of industry has arrognt attitudes towards customers when they feel they are utterly the best and they have no competition. Well for the 1DsII, yest that's pretty true in that proce bracket and if you happen to like the skin colors (which I do!)
However, with printers, HP and Epson really attend to the customer in a far better way and are highly competitve for quality.
Now if I needed to print just blue waters in the Aegian off the Isles of Lesbos and south of the Turkish coast and the port of Bodrum, there is no printer that could match the blue and related hues.
However, I have no women I photograph or fields or steel and aluminum buildings with these colors!
So Epson and HP are fine for my use.
Now where would I get a 60" printer if not from Canon?
The cost of printing is about $20/ square foot for massive pictures. So a 5ft x 12 feet picture, owning a printer seems like the way to go.
Apparently, the prints are not that fragile and the paper comes out straight with the Canon so it still is the only player I know with a 60" wide print capability for the pigment inks we want!
I'd hate to have to pay a print atelier the price of a new printer just to get one copy each of 13 prints!
I guess, I'll have to wait to see if Canon changes their ways!
Asher
That's serious stuff you have written that, (Chuck take note) many people who have dedicated themselves to being first out of the gaqte with the new Canon printers are disgruntled.
There appears to be a huge disconnect between what is and what should be.
To hear that when a littany of things fail in a D.O.A. printers (coaxed by attempted fixes to gasp for air before collapsing again), should give a Caon USA service response of "It's within specifications" (echo of back-focus issues) is so disappointing, sad and infuriating.
It boggles the mind that a massive company does not try to compete on service when Epson will simply send a new printer to arrive in 48hrs.
Worse, since I was planning to get the 60" printer!
There's no way I want to be stranded with several hundered pounds of dead steel for months on end!
There has to be a guarantee of service, on site and withing 24 hours or else why buy the printer in the first place!
It disappoints me but I can see that a lot of industry has arrognt attitudes towards customers when they feel they are utterly the best and they have no competition. Well for the 1DsII, yest that's pretty true in that proce bracket and if you happen to like the skin colors (which I do!)
However, with printers, HP and Epson really attend to the customer in a far better way and are highly competitve for quality.
Now if I needed to print just blue waters in the Aegian off the Isles of Lesbos and south of the Turkish coast and the port of Bodrum, there is no printer that could match the blue and related hues.
However, I have no women I photograph or fields or steel and aluminum buildings with these colors!
So Epson and HP are fine for my use.
Now where would I get a 60" printer if not from Canon?
The cost of printing is about $20/ square foot for massive pictures. So a 5ft x 12 feet picture, owning a printer seems like the way to go.
Apparently, the prints are not that fragile and the paper comes out straight with the Canon so it still is the only player I know with a 60" wide print capability for the pigment inks we want!
I'd hate to have to pay a print atelier the price of a new printer just to get one copy each of 13 prints!
I guess, I'll have to wait to see if Canon changes their ways!
Asher
An interesting thing, with this type of product. The selling price, since it is not exactly a consumer item, is high, to recover the development cost. Most of the development cost is in designing it so it can be made as cheaply as possible. It is a joke, the bs they give out re the replacement of a couple of 2pence plastic gears, except for the poor folk who bought the stuff.
I fail to understand how people still think that these large companies have the interest of their customers at heart. They will do the absolute minimum necessary in customer support, and wriggle and squirm, until it effects their bottom line.
If HP is still a usa company, then Asher, the answer is pretty obvious, if you are concerned about customer service. If you want to risk after sales support, and you must have the canon, then maybe some insurance scheme will cover it, but that would probably cost more than a second printer.
In 'the early days', we used to arrange with local companies with the same computers, that if theirs was down, they could come over and run their punched cards through ours, and vice versa.
Best wishes,
Ray
I fail to understand how people still think that these large companies have the interest of their customers at heart. They will do the absolute minimum necessary in customer support, and wriggle and squirm, until it effects their bottom line.
If HP is still a usa company, then Asher, the answer is pretty obvious, if you are concerned about customer service. If you want to risk after sales support, and you must have the canon, then maybe some insurance scheme will cover it, but that would probably cost more than a second printer.
In 'the early days', we used to arrange with local companies with the same computers, that if theirs was down, they could come over and run their punched cards through ours, and vice versa.
Best wishes,
Ray
John Hollenberg
New member
Asher,
It is sad to have to write this kind of stuff about a printer which is generally brilliant technologically. If I were an engineer on this printer I would be pretty upset about the way Canon has squandered its potential with their stingy warranty policies and customer service for those with real problems (not me, fortunately). Even worse, Canon was made aware through back channels of the existence and general thrust of the article 2-3 weeks before it was published (but not the specific content). I had hoped this might spur them to action in a manner that I could write a much more hopeful ending. No apparent effect, although I heard rumors of various meetings, etc.
With all of this, the biggest wild card is still the lack of longevity data 13 months after the "preliminary estimates" of at least 100 years. Since I don't sell my prints, it isn't that big a deal for me, but for those who do I think the issue is crucial. How could 13 months go by and still NO published data on longevity estimates? If the tests are still in progress because the prints are so robust nothing can make them fade, they could just tell us how many "Wilhelm years" the prints have earned so far.
--John
It is sad to have to write this kind of stuff about a printer which is generally brilliant technologically. If I were an engineer on this printer I would be pretty upset about the way Canon has squandered its potential with their stingy warranty policies and customer service for those with real problems (not me, fortunately). Even worse, Canon was made aware through back channels of the existence and general thrust of the article 2-3 weeks before it was published (but not the specific content). I had hoped this might spur them to action in a manner that I could write a much more hopeful ending. No apparent effect, although I heard rumors of various meetings, etc.
With all of this, the biggest wild card is still the lack of longevity data 13 months after the "preliminary estimates" of at least 100 years. Since I don't sell my prints, it isn't that big a deal for me, but for those who do I think the issue is crucial. How could 13 months go by and still NO published data on longevity estimates? If the tests are still in progress because the prints are so robust nothing can make them fade, they could just tell us how many "Wilhelm years" the prints have earned so far.
--John
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
John Hollenberg;22720 (my emphasis said:
This John is most serious!
I want to get the 60" printer. I could not take the risk of having prints fade in 3-7 years! What gallery would trust you again?
Could be, like having good engineers, they have good data but they don't have a clue on getting stuff to us! They do need Q.C. on their "consumables" and their service!
Asher
John Hollenberg
New member
Asher,
I would doubt 3-7 years, but if the results came out at 50 Wilhelm years that wouldn't be great either. According to Joseph Holmes, the tests don't account for reciprocity failure, so they over-estimate the actual lifespan by a factor of something like 2.5. That would mean perhaps 20 years actual life using the hypothetical number of 50. Good for comparing between printers, but not necessarily as an absolute value. In that respect, the HP numbers look pretty impressive.
Edit: If you are interested in the 60 inch printer, call the sales people and ask them where the Wilhelm results are?
--John
I would doubt 3-7 years, but if the results came out at 50 Wilhelm years that wouldn't be great either. According to Joseph Holmes, the tests don't account for reciprocity failure, so they over-estimate the actual lifespan by a factor of something like 2.5. That would mean perhaps 20 years actual life using the hypothetical number of 50. Good for comparing between printers, but not necessarily as an absolute value. In that respect, the HP numbers look pretty impressive.
Edit: If you are interested in the 60 inch printer, call the sales people and ask them where the Wilhelm results are?
--John