Journey of Mankind

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/
Watch the climate changes: kinda puts all the recent moanings about global warming into perspective...

Nikolai Sklobovsky said:

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/
Watch the climate changes: kinda puts all the recent moanings about global warming into perspective...

Click to expand...

Quite on the contrary (if we were to take this reading of development as universal truth)! See how the (by now human influence on) climate change will have an an impact ...

Bart

P.S. (who has read "How to lie with statistics", and understood it! )

Bart,

you can't *seriously* imply that a couple of hundred million of apes could lead to an Ice Age or cover most of Eurasia with a rain forest...

Yes, climate changes do happen. But I can't help but wonder what do "we the people" have to do with it...

Nikolai Sklobovsky said:

Bart,

you can't *seriously* imply that a couple of hundred million of apes could lead to an Ice Age or cover most of Eurasia with a rain forest...

Click to expand...

I didn't intend to imply that at all. Ice Ages come and go (in the very long term). However, several billions of contemporary people do have an effect on that long term cycle.

Yes, climate changes do happen. But I can't help but wonder what do "we the people" have to do with it...

Click to expand...

To deny the human influence on air-pollution, the de-forestation in Africa, and destruction of the rainforest in the Amazon, the exhaustion of the soil in e.g. Indonesia due to monoculture of non-food crops, etc., etc., seems almost as dangerous as denial of the accelerated climate change since the industrial revolution.

Bart

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

To deny the human influence on air-pollution, the de-forestation in Africa, and destruction of the rainforest in the Amazon, the exhaustion of the soil in e.g. Indonesia due to monoculture of non-food crops, etc., etc., seems almost as dangerous as denial of the accelerated climate change since the industrial revolution.

Click to expand...

Bart, can you read german? I am asking becuase when I lived in the Netherlands I learned that many of you folks can read and speak german quite fluently, and no, my dutch is unacceptable. <grins> Check this out:

http://www.monde-diplomatique.de/pm/.atlas07/atlas

I just received my copy 2 days ago, this is a Hell of a document and well worth the money. Unfortunately, I asked them about it, it has not been translated to english, yet.

Nikolai Sklobovsky said:

But I can't help but wonder what do "we the people" have to do with it...

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From a not scientific, emotional, irrational point of view, yes I can follow your astonishement.

However, the impact of industrial junk in all forms has only begun to show it's true face. We are confronted with much larger implications than the public media wants us to digest for now.

"We the people" are the ones who allow it to happen.

Georg Baumann said:

Bart, can you read german?

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Yes, no problem. Thanks for the link, I'll give it a read.

Bart

I think one can get it in French on a CD with multilingual menus..

It includes much more. Le Monde diplomatique sur cédérom : 1978-2006 .

Asher

Nik,

you know from the other post that went down this path......... I am with you on this one for sure.
It is a con. A red herring for the purpose of further enslavement of the masses.

PB

Paul,

As a scientist, I'd keep a more open mind. There are undoubtedly a number of competing processes and long term and short term cycles. The latter man-made. I am in no position to bang my fist on the table asnd dismiss your objections as nonsense. In the same way, you should be open to the possibility that man is currently (in the past 100 years) adding a significant global warming load which will effect us in the short run of the next 100 years.

This does not discount the major shifts in temperatures caused by the abrupt relocation of the earth's magnetic poles and change in axis of rotation, volcanic effects, impact of tidal movements by the moons gravitational pull, natural releases of methane and so forth.

To limit one's point of view to one side or the other, is from my stand point, "faith-based" stances, in which ideas and policies are based on infectious ideas current in a particular group, rather than reason based on balancing deductions and predictions from facts with a healrthy awareness of pressures to follow fashion.

My own view, based on observations made on animals and birds and scientific measurements of ocean levels (height), pollutant concentrations and mean temperatures, that we are in a period of global warming which correlates with our industrial way of life to support massive population growth.

The forces denying global warming that do so because of faith-based defense of unmanaged economic and population growth and an aversion to birth control, are far more driven by self interest than environmentalists trying to protect the planet.

Asher

Hi Asher,

thanks for the explanation. I do understand that there is a logical argument to explain the relationship between the current warm state of the planet & the activities of the human race. I am sorry that I do not possess the intellect to mount a strong argument to counter that position. Ironically though, would you believe that when I was a young dude in the 1970's I was a fairly radical hippie type. I lived on a commune in a place by the name of Nimbin in northern NSW. Back then, I was very much a greenie & if I had that mindset today no doubt I would be in the opposite camp to where I stand now.
Do you remember when the year 2000 rolled over & the world was going to self destruct on account of the computer setup.........a lie........there were plenty who profited from that.
I just do not believe this BS about man being responsible for the planet changing. How about MT St Helens. That eruption alone surely would surpass many years of the human effect on the climate.
Watch & see..........one world government brought about by fear.

Cheers,

Paul

Paul,

Why belong to any camp at all? I don't, I let the chips fall as they may. I tend to discount things that are claimed until I see the data and there's a lot to be digested on the matter of global warming. However, dismissing it is not a useful approach.

I am also open to the idea of global cooling. If one doesn't keep one's mind from belonging to a particular group, then one maintains some possibility of independent thought.

Presently, we are in a period of increased temperatures.

We are also in a time of destruction of the ozone by leaked oxides of nitrogen, chlorine compounds and methane, a lot of it from out excess breeding of humans and machines.

Within 20 years, when one of the other "New Orleans-like cities around the world gets overrun by ocean, people will start to figure out that something real is happening.

For the USA, the Isle of Manhattan itself will have to be flooded for people to get past their faith-based beliefs that global warming is some socialist-tree-hugger nonsense.

Whatever happens, will have to be big for people to get it and most wont, just like the people in the 9th ward in New Orleans who now want to rebuild their district that lies twenty feet below the ocean level!

One of the side effects of photographing nature is that one learns about the life cycles of animals and in particular the spectacular loss of habitat as desertification occurs.

When one does get to the point of recognizing what happening on planet earth to the thermostat, then one can of course blame it on geophysical forces. However, when the bank is blown up I don't immediately think that nature did it if I see the robbers in the get-a-way car making their escape.

Asher