ETTL or manual

Hi,

I'm really in need of some advice before I spend money on something that I'll regret.

I currently do a fair bit of home-based "studio" work using a pair of Bowans Gemini Esprit 500s. I therefore understand about using manual, off camera flash.

Now I'd like to invest in a lightweight portable flash for location work, and this is where I'm stuck. By "location work", I really mean quick portraits and general low-light photography. For anything more serious I'll probably just take along my studio strobes.

One option is to buy the Canon 580EX. I've never used ETTL (other than the next-to-useless on camera flash), but I think I nevertheless have a good technical understanding of the principles behind it thanks to the numerous article out there (Photonotes, Doug Kerr's wireless guide, etc.). There are things that I like the idea of:

* Easy on-camera fill flash.
* Remote control of off-camera flashes via an on-camera controller such as another 580EX or ST-E2.
* Automatic ratio control.

However I have concerns:

* Wireless control is done optically, and it would seem that this isn't great in daylight, especially if the flash is behind me.
* Going radio isn't an option if you want to keep ETTL functionality

Next-up, I'm using a 30D; is ETTL II really a decent system, or would I be better off turning the flashes to manual mode? If I go fully manual, then I have to consider:

* Is there any point is buying a 580EX? There are much cheaper alternative if ETTL isn't a requirement. Would the ETTL still be useful from time to time?

* In fact, should I buy a Canon flash at all? Since they don't even have a PC socket (ridiculous), making them more awkward to connect to a wireless-by-radio system.

There are various sites that offer superb lighting advice. Neil van Niekerk makes out-standing use of on-camera flash and ETTL. On the other hand, Neil Turner, whos images I also appreciate, uses off camera flash for most things. David Hobby is an avid advocate of the off-camera cheap flash with pocket wizards approach.

The problem is that without having enough on-location flash experience I find it very difficult to decide on the best way to go. I also don't have any experience with ETTL to know if I trust it, although if it works I'd be happy with it, obviously.

I like Niel van Niekerk's approach of bouncing the on-camera strobe, and this is great for the photographer who needs to move with his subject. It's also allows quicker repositioning of the subject. On the other hand, the point mady by David Hobby is a good one - that off-camera strobes give a good lighting consistancy and allow the photographer more freedom of movement without having to constantly change the flash position. I can see myself doing both depending on the circumstances.

I suppose the ideal solution is a 580EX with pocket wizards, which would also allow me to use my pocket wizards on my studio strobes, however I can't afford that approach. The ideal ideal would be that Canon introduce a radio based ETTL system, and it rather concerns me that they'll do that just *after* I buy the kit!

So, that all said, I'd really appreciate hearing your experiences on on-camera vs off-camera and ETTL vs manual. Maybe you'll give me some things to think about that I haven't already considered.

Thanks,

Tim

> In fact, should I buy a Canon flash at all?

I can't answer most of your questions as I do very little flash work, but I do have a Canon (550ex) flash. But you should (and maybe already are) be aware that the Canon ETTL system is highly controversial. You either love it or hate it. Initially I hated it, but after researching and refining my techniques, I love it. You might read carefully the standard reference on Canon ETTL.

- DL

Hi,

Yep, I'm aware of the controversy.

It seems to me that those who take the time to learn the behavour of Canon's systems, like yourself, end up with great appreciation for it. I'm technically minded, so I don't thing I'll have any problems in that regard. As I mentioned, I've already read the excellent Canon flash article at Photonotes.

Most people agree that Nikon's flash system is better, however I've never actually seen any serious tests performed between Nikon's TTL system and the new ETTL II. I'd be interested in understanding where the strength of the Nikon system lies, although obviously I shaln't be changing systems over it. Of course, we're now drifting off the subject at hand.....

Tim

Hi,
If you want quick and easy results ETTL (II) is wonderful.
If you want to be creative with flash I strongly advocate the use of standard studio flashes, although you can do alot with a 580EX on manual I still strongly believe the studio flash setup is easier (thanks to modellights) and better suitable for difficult situations.

Hi Frank,

Yes, as I said, I already have studio lights and I'll keep using those for more "serious" situations.

What I'm looking for now is a more portble, take anywhere system. I'd really like to know how other people find themselves using their hot shoe flashes.

Do you mainly keep the flash on camera and bounce?
Do you mainly need to take the flash off camera? Does wireless ETTL work well, or it manula flash with radio slaves the way to go?

Some other questions that spring to mind:

Is the off camera cord useful?
How often do you find yourselves holding the flash out to one side to achieve modelling?
Is a small softbox at all useful for this?
Is a bracket a really worthwhile investment? Why?
The the RSS bracket as cool as it looks?

Tim

I use the 580EX when I need simple flash (for a reception, outdoor fill, etc). If more than one flash is needed on my Canon system, I use cheap flashes. Here are two possibilities I use - the first is two second hand Nikon SB80DX flashes which have built in optical slaves and also have a thysristor control mode. For example, in a wedding I could have one SB80DX on camera to light the foreground and an assistant holding the second unit on a mono-pod pointing to a background to be lit (imagine a dance floor with the on-camera lighting the couple and the background being filled with the second flash). I shoot this in thyristor exposure control mode and either the optical sync of the SB80DX or with a cheap radio control. The foreground thyristor control flash exposes only for the foreground and the background thyristor does a clean job on the background.

Off camera cords are OK - however I prefer to use the radio sync. This is partly because I have an injured left arm and it is therefore easier to give the flash with receiver to some conscripted volunteer.

A second combination I have is a pair of Vivitar 285HV flashes. These work in the same way as the SB80DX. Of course, if more than two flashes are needed, the Vivitars and Nikons work well together. (Two Vivitar 285HV with AC powersupply, two cheap radio receivers and one transmitter are usually cheaper to buy than one 580EX. You could probably get the SB80DX even cheaper if you are lucky)

I also sometimes use a Custom Brackes CB Junior ( http://www.custombrackets.com/Scripts/default.asp ) when I when I am concerned about keeping the flash pointed down to the subject for vertical shots (I hate sideways flash

Depending upon the room, I use ceiling/wall bounce. I have a diffusion plastic "thing" that fits over the 580EX which works well. The Nikon SB80DX units come with these as a standard distribution.

In my opinion, the SB80DX is one of the most versatile flash units available and reasonable prices and work well in thyristor mode with a built in optical slave. They are readily available second hand because so many Nikon photographers with D2h D2x, D200 etc have switched to the SB800.

> Is the off camera cord useful?

I find the ST-E2 much more useful.

> How often do you find yourselves holding the flash out to one side to achieve modelling?

Often, hence the ST-E2. If my arm won't reach I have an assistant hold the flash.

> Is a small softbox at all useful for this?

I have the Stoffen and find that it doesn't make much difference. I've heard that the Fong Lightsphere does better.

- DL

Hi, Tim,

When I want to work with off-camera flash, either in the studio or in a tidy field setup, I use a pair of Vivitar 285HV units equipped with Wein "Peanut" optical slave triggers (they plug directly into the sync cord jack on the flash).

Then I use my 550EX, set to manual (so there will be no metering preflash) at some suitable low output level, on-camera, as the transmitter.

I will ordinarily run the 285HVs in their manual mode. One irritating aspect: they offer output levels of 1, 1/2, 1/4, and 1/16 - no 1/8. (Curiously enough, when you fit a Vivitar 283 with the optional Vari-power module, it provides 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, and 1/16 output levels. No, It won't plug into the 285HV!)

The 285HV isn't readily available from dealers any more, but there are scads of them on e-bay.

Still, I would think that a setup using the Canon wireless flash system would be attractive as well. (I just don't have enough gear for that!). If the slaves are other than a 420EX (or earlier), you can operate in a flash manual mode if that seems most suitable for your exposure control strategy (and control all of that from the master on the camera).

Thanks everyone for your responses.

It seems that the general consensus is the same: ETTL can be great for quick and simple lighting, or for constantly changing environments. For "staged" work manual off camera flash offers the greatest consistancy and creative control, which isn't surprising.

Perhaps for the moment the most flexible (and expensive) solutions is a Canon master and slave combo, giving you ETTL when you need "quick and simple", and manual with remote control of slaves when you want more control. At a later stage it's also possible to use a radio system to trigger the flashes (without any ability to control the settings) under arrangements where optical transmissions doesn't work.

Now I need to decide if that's an investment I'm prepared to make...

Regards,

Tim

The off camera cord is very very handy, especially when you want a more natural looking shot, a little bit of the axis of the model gives a much more natural look.

"The off camera cord is very very handy..."

Especially if you add an extension to it. As it comes from the factory, it's too short for comfort and the health of the connectors, IMO.

Went for ETTL

Well, I ended up buying a 580EX. Just the one for the time being; Ill get a slave at some point too. I got my first chance do try it out during my camera club's end of year barbecue. We were in a courtyard, so I was bouncing the flash off the the brick walls to give me a softer light, with the camera in manual mode. I have to say, I'm amazed by the accuracy of the exposures, every single one was spot on. I can't speak for ETTL, but so far ETTL II has shown itself to be an excellent piece of technology. Shooting RAW makes bounced ETTL even more useful, since colour casts due to wall colours are easily removed. As an interesting side-note, even bouncing the flash was sometimes giving quite harsh lighting (presumably because the court yard was quite small, but I was still suprised). I pulled out the wide angle reflector and continued to bounce and was pleased to discover that this completely changed the result, giving me the soft lighting that I was looking for. Tim