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View Full Version : Frank Gehry's Marquès de Riscal winery by a Sinar Hy6 and eMotion 75 Digital Back!


Nicolas Claris
February 26th, 2008, 03:57 PM
Thanks folks for all good words!
So you desserve some news…

I promissed to write a report on the shooting but also to start a diary in OPF showing some of my upcoming work this year with the Sinar Hy6.
Until now I had only the body and the Sinarback eMotion 75 LV together with a 80 mm. Yes one prime lens only an a focal that I've never been really fond of… Next week, I'll get a 40mm and a bit later a 180 mm
It's Christmas every month at Claris now!

So in the meantime, just to tease you all a bit more, I am glad to post 4 images that I shot in Spain for my own testing.
I needed something more quiet to shoot than a boat from a chase boat, to really step up on my learning curve of this camera. I am strongly convinced by the first tests done in the Carribean and its capability for shooting action and movements, but I needed to have time to think before pressing the shutter., I mean to get use of how to find easily the different settings, according to the situation, light, forms small/large DOF etc…
So I went to the beautifull Hotel designed by Franck Gehry for the Marquès de Riscal winery (major Spanish winery).
It is located in Elciego down South of the Pays Basque, among vineyards.

I like the anolgywith sails, and that day was bloody windy and cold! (real 0°Celsius/32 fahrenheit)

Please, due to agreement with the owner of the hotel, don't process and repost. Thank you for your understanding…

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/SINAR/1-e75-07-1214-2392.jpg

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/SINAR/1-e75-07-1214-2399.jpg

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/SINAR/1-e75-07-1214-2434.jpg

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/SINAR/1-e75-07-1214-2447.jpg
Yes, this is a flush black swimming pool in the Spa ((Vinothérapie® Caudalíe)

Nicolas Claris
February 26th, 2008, 04:05 PM
OK, 2 more…

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/SINAR/1-e75-07-1214-2315.jpg

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/SINAR/1-e75-07-1214-2323.jpg

With many many thanks to: The Luxury Collection - Hotel Marquès de Riscal

Georg R. Baumann
February 26th, 2008, 05:00 PM
Geeeze.... this Hy6/emotion combi is just..... argh.....my precioussssssss LOL

Asher Kelman
February 26th, 2008, 05:26 PM
Well guys,

Are we having fun? Nicolas, this is utterly impressive, spacious, colorful and outstanding. So we can do architecture without tilts and shifts sometimes! Frank Gehry's architecture does allow that!

Asher

Eric Hiss
February 26th, 2008, 06:12 PM
Nicolas,
Can you tell us what software are you using to post process these? And more specifically are you using brumbaer tools or not? Are you using the camera in one of the program modes or setting exposure manually? For those of us trying to assess the performance of the camera that would be important - also the shot settings and the point at which you chose to focus.

Nicolas Claris
February 27th, 2008, 12:07 AM
Bonjour Eric
of course you hit some good points…
Main of these will be in the report.
As a fast answer, these have been shot with the 80 mm provided by Sinar.
So, until now I have used Sinar CaptureShop 5.5. I have tested recently (since a few days ago) the Brombaer tools (eMotionDng) which enables to save the original Sinar raw files to DNG. Promissing…

For the sail yacht I used al manual settings, for the Marquès de Riscal/Gerhy I used most of the time 100 ISO/tripod/with aperture priority; ƒ was 8 to 11
I did some shots with 1/3 of stop underexposing, as during the day the sun was really straight down on the metal surfaces (the plating is made of Titane) there is still some clipping, but for me it shows the Basque Spring (nearly) light… and the reflection as well which are part of the compsition…
Focus was most of the time AF but some manual too…

More to come with the report.

Nicolas Claris
February 27th, 2008, 12:08 AM
Geeeze.... this Hy6/emotion combi is just..... argh.....my precioussssssss LOL

Yes Georg, now you start to beleive me!

but don't forget the lens. The lens!

Eric Hiss
February 27th, 2008, 01:13 AM
Bonjour Eric
of course you hit some good points…
Main of these will be in the report.
As a fast answer, these have been shot with the 80 mm provided by Sinar.
So, until now I have used Sinar CaptureShop 5.5. I have tested recently (since a few days ago) the Brombaer tools (eMotionDng) which enables to save the original Sinar raw files to DNG. Promissing…

For the sail yacht I used al manual settings, for the Marquès de Riscal/Gerhy I used most of the time 100 ISO/tripod/with aperture priority; ƒ was 8 to 11
I did some shots with 1/3 of stop underexposing, as during the day the sun was really straight down on the metal surfaces (the plating is made of Titane) there is still some clipping, but for me it shows the Basque Spring (nearly) light… and the reflection as well which are part of the compsition…
Focus was most of the time AF but some manual too…

More to come with the report.

Thanks for the info. I did notice the clipping and wondered if the camera set the exposure with the metering and how accurate the metering is. While the metering in the 6008 is really very good, I find that in some cases I need to add in exposure compensation. I had read that Brumbaer tools could help recover some highlights - looks like in the case of the second image it wasn't able to. Now I'm really curious about the exposure metering and capture shop software. From the Gehry building images it looks like you are getting a bit less dynamic range than I get with my 6008/P20 but it could all be due to file processing and of course its hard to tell anything from a few web images. More a question about the sinar back, but how well can you push up the shadows in the RAW files? What do ISO 400 images look like?

In any case I have been really impressed with the 80mm f/2.8 PQS lens so don't feel bad that's your only one in your kit for the moment. But if you want to know anything about the lenses before getting more, I have and can tell you about or provide image samples from the following lenses: the 40mm f/3.5 super angulon, 50mm f/2.8, 60mm f/3.5 curtagon (schneider not zeiss), 80 f/2.0, 80mm AF f/2.8, 90mm APO makro, 110mm f/2.0, and 180mm f/2.8

Everyone says the 90mm is one of the sharpest MF lenses ever but actually the 80 you have is right up there with it. Since the 80mm f/2.8 has a symmetrical optical design its also very good for macro work with extension tubes. All said, I use the AF 80 f/2.8, 110 and 180 most, but they all are simply outstanding.

Nicolas Claris
February 27th, 2008, 02:41 AM
The "only" was humoristic! (yes it happens to me ;-)!

It is the Schneider AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS and yes it's sharp!

Yes the DNG converter does preserve the highlights better, but as privately discussed with Thierry Haggenauer from Sinar we are facing about 6 or 7 stops overexposition, so one have to choose another moment to choose or get really dark shadows…
As always in ohotography, it is a question of choice. I agree, the more we get, the easiest the choices are!

As for the metering, (I always use "Integral metering" never spot, even with other bodies) on the body I have I guess it may over expose always a bit, I should do more exposure compensation as the dark shadows are easily, nearly noise free recoverable.

Please leave me some food for the article!
For now, I'm trying (for the sake of honesty) to figure out if certain difficulties I may encounter are due to my lack of knowledge or not… (hence my reluctance to post a lot of boat pics, as Asher did point in his article, I am not 100% satisfied by them, but I think I am faulty there, not the camera (I already have saved from the garbage some of them which I found having highlights clipped), and I still have to climb up the learning curve…).

Haven't tried ISO 400 yet, but will do of course!

Ralph Eisenberg
February 27th, 2008, 04:50 AM
Beautiful, simply beautiful. Looks like they chose just the right photographer to represent them. Great work.

Nicolas Claris
February 27th, 2008, 05:55 AM
Yes Georg, now you start to beleive me!

but don't forget the lens. The lens!

and the camera, and the back :…)

Nicolas Claris
February 27th, 2008, 06:02 AM
Beautiful, simply beautiful. Looks like they chose just the right photographer to represent them. Great work.

Thank you Ralph
But the Marquès de Riscal did not choose me, I did choose hem!
This is private work which I'm glad to share here…

Above all, they did choose the ARCHITECT! and believe me, it helps…

Georg R. Baumann
February 27th, 2008, 06:50 PM
Nicolas,

did you get the Hy6 with the revolving adapter to switch between portrait/landscape more conviniently? What about the Reflex finder, do you have that one too?

Nicolas Claris
February 27th, 2008, 11:48 PM
Nicolas,

did you get the Hy6 with the revolving adapter to switch between portrait/landscape more conviniently? What about the Reflex finder, do you have that one too?

Hi Georg

Of course I did!
The refex finder is not yet available and I'm awaiting an answer for the revolving adapter which would be of extreme help when on chase boat with sea water sprays all over…
Otherwise, rotating the back is very easy. And the amazing thing for someone like me coming from the dslr's world is the so easy to clean sensor…

Bart_van_der_Wolf
February 28th, 2008, 02:58 AM
And the amazing thing for someone like me coming from the dslr's world is the so easy to clean sensor…

Yes, it's easily accessible, but I wouldn't try cleaning in a salt water spray environment ... ;-)

A rotating back is a must for outdoors conditions, and a prism viewfinder is a must for fast action.
I don't know about the weather sealing of the Hy6 and it's lenses, maybe there is some sort of rain-coat protection in the making?

Bart

Nicolas Claris
February 28th, 2008, 10:52 AM
Yes, it's easily accessible, but I wouldn't try cleaning in a salt water spray environment ... ;-)

No you're right, I will use only sand-paper ;-)

Kathy Rappaport
February 28th, 2008, 11:50 AM
Nicolas,

Wow. I can only dream from here. You are more than talented. And that piece of equipment in your hands is like Beethoven's on a piano...

Nicolas Claris
February 28th, 2008, 12:35 PM
Many, many thank Kathy

but I'm not sure I'd like to be a piano !;-)

Georg R. Baumann
February 28th, 2008, 04:20 PM
Beethoven? Kathy, don't spoil him! LOL

Nicolas, tell me, I know it sounds a stupid question, but the design.... I just wonder, what about using this baby on tripods, L-Bracket, motorised Panohead (Seitz) etc.?

Any obstacles to overcome?

And another probably silly question, but I am so used to a sealed body/lense combination, I have no worries about weather at all. - I guess this is somewhat completely different here! -

Why is that Thierry? What are the obstacles to seal everything, except costs? - Was Michael Reichmann's concern about the exposed circuit board (changing batteries in challenging conditions) something that found open ears in R&D to the best of your knowledge?

Which of course leads to the question of lenses, are those Schneider/Zeiss/Rodenstock etc. sealed or all vulnerable to weather?

One more thing Nicolas, what about exposure bracketing, how many brackets can you shoot?
Thanks!

Thierry Hagenauer
February 28th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Dear Georg,

your concern here is not more justified as it is with any other MF camera/lens from any other brand.
As for the circuit board: it is not IMO exposed more than in any other camera.
As long as you don't work under pouring water falls, I don't see nay particular problem. But then, would one really want to shoot when raining and without any protection of the camera-lens?

as for "Bracketing", following oprions are available:

- 3 x by 1/3 of a stop; 3 x by 2/3 of a stop or 3 x 1 stop

or

- 5 x 1/3 of a stop; 5 x by 2/3 of a stop or 5 x 1 stop

best regards,
Thierry



And another probably silly question, but I am so used to a sealed body/lense combination, I have no worries about weather at all. - I guess this is somewhat completely different here! -

Why is that Thierry? What are the obstacles to seal everything, except costs? - Was Michael Reichmann's concern about the exposed circuit board (changing batteries in challenging conditions) something that found open ears in R&D to the best of your knowledge?

Which of course leads to the question of lenses, are those Schneider/Zeiss/Rodenstock etc. sealed or all vulnerable to weather?

One more thing Nicolas, what about exposure bracketing, how many brackets can you shoot?
Thanks!

Georg R. Baumann
February 28th, 2008, 08:30 PM
As long as you don't work under pouring water falls....

close.... <smile>

Georg R. Baumann
February 28th, 2008, 08:31 PM
- 5 x 1/3 of a stop; 5 x by 2/3 of a stop or 5 x 1 stop


Excellent.... Thanks!

Georg R. Baumann
February 28th, 2008, 08:34 PM
But then, would one really want to shoot when raining and without any protection of the camera-lens?

Of course not, without protection of body/lense, no.

But as a "really want to shoot when".... yes!

Nicolas Claris
February 29th, 2008, 12:09 AM
Hi Georg
as you know, I'm not a very good tech guy, more like "let's see how it comes in real life"…
In real life when my yougn boy (I mean when he was young) I always cared, lookes, warn him when we were walking or crossing streets, you know, there are cars around…
In the begining of the digital photography age, there were diskets, then CF cards, the more affordble ones were Microdrive, they did cost a lot but much less than flash cards, so they were my choice, I did read meany warnings: "be carefull there is mechanism in them, don't drop them, bla bla bla… of course! you know what? the very first one I bought in 2001 (340Gb) is still working… and I am not working in easy environements. Of course now the prices of flash cards are low and they are so much faster that I have a bunch of them, including 8 Gb…
What I mean is that we have to care our fear like our babies. The better they are built the better it is, but at the end it's the way we handle them that counts!

Last year I had to shoot a 43 meters ('bout 140 feet) boat in a shed, inside it's cocoon while 3 men where sandblasting the steel…
I had no tank to put the 1DS2 in it, so I wrapped with plastic foil the camera around my hand, put un filter in front of the lens and shot for… one minute, after it was just impossible to see more far than 2 meters because of the dust in the air (I had a filter to breath)…

The filter was destroyed, I mean unpolished by the sand, but the camera had nada, rien, nothing, not a single dust on it or inside… I'm sure that the 24_70 zoom would have been full of dust inside it's body, without the caution I did use. So yes, we have to care our gear…
I already know how I will use the Sinar when I'll have a lot of seawater spray around, I just wish Sinar will be able to send me a rotating adapter for the back, this would help…

I think Thierry did answer your more technical questions.

Nicolas Claris
February 29th, 2008, 01:35 AM
Sorry, I forgot to answer these:
Nicolas, tell me, I know it sounds a stupid question, but the design.... I just wonder, what about using this baby on tripods, L-Bracket, motorised Panohead (Seitz) etc.?

Any obstacles to overcome?

The design is a complet new world to me but i can find very easily the different settings buton, the handle is usefull, you can works the command button with 2 fingers.
But I am right handed, I just wonder for lefthanded guys… Thierry?
The LCD is bricht enough and the viewfinder is great as you can check all settings without moving your eyes…

The back LCD is just good to look at the menu (very simple, not a lot of combinations!), I don't trust it at all for image reviewing, we're far from the 1Ds3, but afterall it is a pro camera and you are supposed to know what you do, and you can still check the histogram…

In a certain way, I feel like the old times I had with my gone away beloved Nikkormat with every settings manual… Even if the Hy6 has of course a much better handling/control. What I mean is that I feel being drawn back to the real basics of photography… I drive the camera, not the opposite!

The only con I have, because I'm not used to it and because I alternat shooting the Hy6 and the 1Ds3, is th ereversed view in the view finder… putting the horizon straight is a strange and sometimes funny exercises LoL!
There is (will be) a reflex finder, but it is not available yet.

BTW, did I say that the Schneider Super-Angulon PQ 3.5/40 mm has arrived yesterday? °-0)

Thierry Hagenauer
February 29th, 2008, 02:28 AM
Well, there is no version for lefthanded guys, obviously.
I doubt there are any such camera anyway. Even LF cameras have all the knobs and setting buttons on the right side.

Best regards,
Thierry


But I am right handed, I just wonder for lefthanded guys… Thierry?

Nicolas Claris
March 6th, 2008, 11:06 AM
What about viewing a video "Making of"?

Check out here (http://www.claris.fr/flash/Marques_de_Riscal_Sinar.htm)

Enjoy!

Cem_Usakligil
March 6th, 2008, 01:35 PM
Excellent cameramanship and film editing; chapeau to Romain!
Which musical piece is that, BTW? Also by Romain?

Cheers,

Cem

Nicolas Claris
March 6th, 2008, 11:57 PM
Thanks Cem
As for all of our film production, Romain is doing the filming, editing and music (composed with Apple's Garage Band)…
Some of his own work have already been selected in some short film festivals!

For those interested, here is the link to his Myspace page (http://www.myspace.com/romainclaris)

He's also a talented photographer but prefers moving pictures…

Klaus Esser
March 24th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Hi Nicolas!

Very nice made movie - and music :-) I love GarageBand!! And very fine photography too, of course!!

best, Klaus

Ron Morse
March 24th, 2008, 07:51 PM
Beautiful images Nicolas. You are the right man to show what the camera can do.

Before I forget when were you in the Caribbean? I was their starting Feb 23 for a week. Oh how I would have liked to have met up with you.

Nicolas Claris
March 25th, 2008, 12:50 AM
Thanks Klaus and Ron

Ron, I was in St-Marteen (not far from US and BVI) for 2 days in January…

Yes it would have been fun to meet, but it was a really fast shoot! A bit like a ping-pong (table tennis) game…

Nicolas Claris
April 18th, 2008, 08:10 AM
Update:
We have created a new section on claris web site for the Sinar photoshoot series.

The section is here (http://www.claris.fr/sinar_uk.php)

The "making of" can be seen here (http://www.claris.fr/sinar_gehry_uk.php) click on "video "Making of"" on top right.

Doug Kerr
April 19th, 2008, 08:27 AM
Stunning building and stunning work. Kudos to Gehry, Sinar, and most of all, our own Nicolas!

Thierry Hagenauer
April 19th, 2008, 08:43 PM
My post will obviously seem to be biased and with a special agenda, but I wish to say it:

Astonishing images, Nicolas, with such a huge amount of details and dynamic range making these images having such a plasticity and showing so many tonalities.

Congrats,
Thierry