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View Full Version : 1st helicopter shots with the Sinar Hy6 and the Sinarback eMotion 75 LV


Nicolas Claris
April 27th, 2008, 02:53 PM
The titles says it all !

This was in Istanbul last Sunday. Time was too short to also shoot from a shase boat so we only had 1hour flying over the boat for shooting both photos and video.

I am still on the learning curve with MF and it was the first time I shot with the Hy6 so I had to be sure to bring back images for our client. It would have been unprofessional not to shoot with the Canon to…

You may see one of the 1Ds3 shot and a link to more in an other thread (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=47062#post47062)

At that moment, the boat was running around 65 Km/h (roughly 4O Mp/h):

Sinar Hy6 and Sinarback eMotion 75 LV… ISO 100 - ƒ 10 (if I remember well) - 1/115s

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/2032EC66_C1-4.jpg

100% crops:

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/2032EC66_C1-4_crop.jpg

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/2032EC66_C1-4_Crop2.jpg

My first lesson is that I shot too slow, next session will be at least 200 ISO to get faster speed for the same ƒ stop. The Hy6 is capable of 1/1000s…

Asher Kelman
April 27th, 2008, 04:14 PM
Nicolas,

I am so impressed with getting into the harness of an helicopter with both a 1Ds MarkIII attached to the massive 600mm telephoto lens, have radio communication with your pilot, signals to the boat below and yes a brand new Sinar Hy6 to both get accustomed to and succeed in getting pictures that justify the effort!

Enough of the "oohs" and "aahs", so we are impressed in the effort. The 600 mm lens images are truly superlative.

Now to these Sinar Images. You are certainly getting used to the new paredime and obviously can now handle the camera. It will take some time still before the brain can instruct the hands to fluidly make changes. I know I have trouble going from the 5D to the 1DII. I sometimes just stare at the controls, blanked out and frustrated when I grab the 5D after using hte 1DII for a few days. For the 1DIII to Hy6 switch the change is really monumental.

At least the Hy6 viewfinder must be a whole new experience. I didn't see what lens you have used. What is your longest lens? Forgetting, for the moment your wish to use a higher ISO next time, do such pictures fit into your clients work, assuming you feel really adept in working the camera and have the lenses you have now or those you'd wish Sinar FedEx's to you tonight?

To me the Sinar should pay of off in the better rendering of the foamy wake and the water subtle hues and tonality for the huge exhibition images you make. Have you looked at that yet? The details of the hull are rendered well with anything. Also the Hy6 should do a better job with bringing out the shadow detail in the model. It would be interesting some time for you to perhaps look at this, even side by side.

The model, BTW, is unusually elegant as well as lovely. I am so impressed with the agents selection. You whole shoot could have been ruined by a brassy tart. Amazing too since the shoot is in Turkey and for sure they must have different views on what is great. Are you just lucky? Even the bathing suit is high fashion and upscale! How did you know this would be the choice? This may seem a different topic, and I suppose to some extent it is, but a cheap model can waste a hello of a lot of helicopter gas!

Asher

Asher

Thierry Hagenauer
April 27th, 2008, 05:46 PM
hi Nicolas,

1/500 is what you need to use, not shorter. I have shot some helicopter images last year with the Sinar m and eMotion 22, and that's what I needed when moving around the subject, or min 1/250 when parking.

Kind regards,
Thierry

Asher Kelman
April 27th, 2008, 05:56 PM
Thierry,

What lenses where you using? I'd imagine that given the helicopter vibrations, you have to go fast with longer lenses. So, putting this another way, what is the longest MF lens you might be able to use given that they are not stabilized to damp vibrations?

Asher

Cem_Usakligil
April 27th, 2008, 09:55 PM
Hi folks,

Leaving aside the technicalities of these pictures, let me say that I like them a lot. As someone born and raised in Istanbul, I am rather jelaous of Nicolas.

Nicolas, are those the the Princess islands in the background, especially the 2nd largest one called Heybeli? Just wondering ;-)

...The model, BTW, is unusually elegant as well as lovely. I am so impressed with the agents selection. You whole shoot could have been ruined by a brassy tart. Amazing too since the shoot is in Turkey and for sure they must have different views on what is great. Are you just lucky? Even the bathing suit is high fashion and upscale! How did you know this would be the choice? This may seem a different topic, and I suppose to some extent it is, but a cheap model can waste a hello of a lot of helicopter gas!

Asher my fiend. It's about time we get to broaden your opinions about what makes Turkey tick nowadays; just ask away (LOL).

Cheers,

Cem

Asher Kelman
April 27th, 2008, 11:03 PM
Asher my friend. It's about time we get to broaden your opinions about what makes Turkey tick nowadays; just ask away (LOL).


I thought you'd notice!

Asher

Nicolas Claris
April 27th, 2008, 11:11 PM
Hi Cem
I don't know the name of the island, it was one of the closest from Tuzla, I'll Google earth and post the exact location a bit later…

You jealous? I can't understand how one could have left a so beautifull and MODERN place than Istanbul to leave in North Europe;-) - Not to comment anything about your life! just commenting on Istanbul and Bosphore…

Asher, the (young) manager of the shipyard has been educated in a very selective Swiss school and then went to university of America.

Turkish are really modern people and you would be amazed by the immense city of Istanbul! These guys are more modern than a lot of US and European citizens!

A lot of fashion photoshoots are done there.

The 2 models are brazilian working for a model agency… It was a real relief to work with them as we had a so tight time for this photo and video shoot… they came with their own suits.

I'm so used to work with marketing assistanst or manager's girl friends as models that for once it was luxury! Did I say I enjoyed it?

Nicolas Claris
April 28th, 2008, 02:27 AM
Second convertion of the same file, but with ACR…

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/2032EC66_ACR.jpg

100% crops:

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/2032EC66_ACR_crop.jpg

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/2032EC66_ACR_crop2.jpg

Nicolas Claris
April 28th, 2008, 02:29 AM
and another picture, should be reframed, but used as is for better understanding…

ISO 100 ƒ 10 - 1/110s

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/2032DE76.jpg

100% crop:

http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/2032DE76_crop.jpg

Nicolas Claris
April 28th, 2008, 02:37 AM
hi Nicolas,

1/500 is what you need to use, not shorter. I have shot some helicopter images last year with the Sinar m and eMotion 22, and that's what I needed when moving around the subject, or min 1/250 when parking.

Kind regards,
Thierry

Bonjour Thierry

I agree, for now with this set using 1/100s to 1/250s I get only 1 on 10 images that I can keep (technically speaking. About twice if I accept to downsize the pics to A3 size (thanks 33 Mpix!)

In fact it also depends of the pilot (how much pitch he uses) and of the helicopter and the # of persons on board as well… the heavier the more shaky…

If I want to go to 1/500 then I'll need to shoot wide open (hey, these boats are large! where is my DOF then?:-{) or 400 ISO hmmmm…

Nicolas Claris
April 28th, 2008, 03:00 AM
Nicolas, are those the the Princess islands in the background, especially the 2nd largest one called Heybeli? Just wondering ;-)

Hi Cem

as promised, you may download the Google Earth mark from here (http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/Photoshoot.kmz.zip)

Thierry Hagenauer
April 28th, 2008, 03:06 AM
Asher,

I did use a 40mm and 80mm on my Sinar m. For sure, with longer lenses you need shorter times.
Thierry

Thierry,

What lenses where you using? I'd imagine that given the helicopter vibrations, you have to go fast with longer lenses. So, putting this another way, what is the longest MF lens you might be able to use given that they are not stabilized to damp vibrations?

Asher

Cem_Usakligil
April 28th, 2008, 03:15 AM
Hi Cem

as promised, you may download the Google Earth mark from here (http://mnclaris.free.fr/forum/Photoshoot.kmz.zip)
Thanks Nicolas. It seems I was wrong, it was the Sedefadasi (translated as: mother-of-pearl island).

Cheers,

Cem

PS: the ACR conversions look better to me but I am at work looking at a laptop screen right now ;-)

Thierry Hagenauer
April 28th, 2008, 03:15 AM
Sure, Nicolas, there is a compromise to do here: my exposure time-indication is only my experience for getting rid of all vibrations, with the 40 and 80mm on my Sinar m. But then, the subject was much different as yours: I was shooting with Rainer when he shot the new airport in Bangkok, and taking some snapshots of the locations downtown in Bangkok. We had the chance to fly over it at less than 700 feet above ground level, when the regulations are 700 feet over the tallest building (that's what we had been told)!

Thierry

Bonjour Thierry

I agree, for now with this set using 1/100s to 1/250s I get only 1 on 10 images that I can keep (technically speaking. About twice if I accept to downsize the pics to A3 size (thanks 33 Mpix!)

In fact it also depends of the pilot (how much pitch he uses) and of the helicopter and the # of persons on board as well… the heavier the more shaky…

If I want to go to 1/500 then I'll need to shoot wide open (hey, these boats are large! where is my DOF then?:-{) or 400 ISO hmmmm…

Michael Fontana
April 28th, 2008, 03:31 AM
Bonjour, Nicolas

having done several chopper-shots (archis) a while ago, generally I found it a good idea, to use the shortest time possible.

The chopper and its movements/vibrations depend - apart from wind, ground, chopper, etc too, if the rotor blades have been tracked - thats the term for balanced - recently.

As you rarely can't verify it, a short time makes sense.
With a normal angled lense, time has been best < 1/250.

Not really fun to return after a hours flight with blurred picts ;-)

Nicolas Claris
April 28th, 2008, 03:53 AM
Hi Michael

Yes I do know that, I fly many times a year for long!

But shooting with a DSLR and a MF aren't the same! yes they are in term of needed speed, but not in terms of DOF…

I'm working now to find the best compromise (to use Thierry's word) DOF/speed/ISO

To see what can be done with a 500 mm, the same day with the Canon, see there… (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=47056&postcount=17)

Nicolas Claris
April 28th, 2008, 04:07 AM
Bonjour Asher

for this shoot, I started to use the Schneider Super-Angulon PQ 3.5/40 mm but the manual focus is one more step to add and I'm not used enough to do this in such conditions of shooting.

So I used the Schneider AFD-Xenotar PQS 2.8/80 mm lens…

Yes switching from a system to another is very "brain demanding" or am I getting too old :-{? it reminds me the times when I shot photo AND video in the same time…

It needs 2 different concentration set-ups in mind plus every seconds wondering which system to use for that precise second…

Going to a "normal" finder behavior for the horizon toward another system with left being on right… Good time for headaches!