Who Uses "P" Mode

doug anderson · May 20, 2008

I'm surprised at how good it is on the D300. In the past, I've always used AP and avoided P.

I took a shot the other day that had extraordinary shadow detail. I've never seen that on P mode.

Rachel Foster · May 20, 2008

I did, but I've been using M ever since I learned how to use my camera's light meter. That's all of....oh, 45 minutes. No, just kidding, I've really been using M since about February.

Alan Cole · May 20, 2008

I try to return the exposure mode setting to "P" at the end of each shooting session. At least then in a quick re-start at a later time, if you forget to make a decision as to what mode you really want to be in you'll get OK "middle of the road" exposure settings. However given plenty of time to set up , I usually make a conscious decision as to whether depth of field or stopping action is the priority and set A or S accordingly.

Alan Cole

Cem_Usakligil · May 20, 2008

I think that it is quite logical that the P mode delivers very good exposure results, given the advancements of technology. After all, the P mode tries to find the optimal combination of shutter and aperture to reach the optional exposure (plus the automatic ISO value in some digital cameras). This is usually done by taking matrix measurements and deciding "intelligently" what total exposure will deliver the optimum results.

Now if one uses Aperture priority mode (like I mostly do) or the Shutter priority mode, the underlying logic is exactly the same. The only difference is that the photographer decides to fix one of the two variables at a certain value. In AP mode, when I choose to shoot at f5.6, the rest is calculated accordingly. The only difference might be that the auto ISO is switched off in AP and SP modes, I am not sure how it works on the D300.

What I don't like about the P mode of recent digital cameras is that they also dictate a lot of other parameters such as engaging the built-in flash automatically (if there is one).

With the newer cameras, one can usually preset the camera to a set of personal preferences and save this in a custom mode. I use that whenever available. So one might have one for slow shooting in RAW and one for high speed action mode using jpg, etc.

To come back to the original question, no I don't use the P mode nowadays. Shooting AP (and sometimes SP and M especially when using a flash gun) has been ingrained into my veins, it seems ;-).

Andrew Rodney · May 20, 2008

Some will pick on you if they see you're on the P mode. Screw em, it works pretty darn well (at least on my 5D). Might need some exposure compensation if you're shooting ETTR.

Asher Kelman · May 20, 2008

Andrew Rodney said:
Some will pick on you if they see you're on the P mode. Screw em, it works pretty darn well (at least on my 5D). Might need some exposure compensation if you're shooting ETTR.

I agree! We do look down on the use of the "P" mode. However, in a tight spot where for some reason I'm unhappy and pressed for time, I must admit I have used the "P" mode surreptitiously.

Still I'm not good at really acknowledging that its part of my habits! I'll usually tell you that I only use Av or M!

These products were shot in "P"mode!

Asher

Doug Kerr · May 21, 2008

Hi, Cem,

Cem_Usakligil said:
What I don't like about the P mode of recent digital cameras is that they also dictate a lot of other parameters such as engaging the built-in flash automatically (if there is one).

Not so for the Canon EOS dSLRs. They do have a mode (Full Automatic, the "green box" mode) which is more automatic than their P mode and which will engage the flash at its pleasure.

Shane Carter · May 21, 2008

Doug_Kerr said:
Hi, Cem,

Not so for the Canon EOS dSLRs. They do have a mode (Full Automatic, the "green box" mode) which is more automatic than their P mode and which will engage the flash at its pleasure.

I just can't imagine letting the camera select the aperture AND the shutter...I think this implies a lack of interest in being in control of the final image. Some may think this is OK, but personally, I don't own $40k worth of gear to have P&S images. If one understands and appreicates photography, would not being in control be the natural choice? YMMV

Asher Kelman · May 21, 2008

Shane,

The reference I gave was to product photography which can be executed perfectly well, if you so wish, in "P" mode. Now that is not my work, but my camera!

My own photography goes from film to 1DII, 5D and a little pocket digicam. I have taken wonderful stitched panoramas with the latter. The object is to merely execute what is on one's mind. So while I myself use manual and Av (aperture priority) mode for my Canon cameras, I don't see what's wrong with using an automatic function. After all, that what the light meter algorithms are that we use without qualms.

Manual gives the most control, but when light is changing, "P" will deliver the image.

Asher

Doug Kerr · May 21, 2008

P&S image

Hi, Shane,

Shane Canfield said:
I just can't imagine letting the camera select the aperture AND the shutter...I think this implies a lack of interest in being in control of the final image. Some may think this is OK, but personally, I don't own $40k worth of gear to have P&S images. If one understands and appreicates photography, would not being in control be the natural choice? YMMV

Well, when I pick up my 20D from the car seat to snag a shot of a guy on stilts going across the crosswalk, I'm grateful to have left it in P (and to not have needed to choose the ISO sensitivity that would be the best for the shot - and I don't mean the camera chose it).

But then I'm not an artiste.

Now here's a nice P&S image:

Hate to think what kind of gear was used for it!

Best regards,

Doug

Shane Carter · May 21, 2008

Doug_Kerr said:
Hi, Shane,

Well, when I pick up my 20D from the car seat to snag a shot of a guy on stilts going across the crosswalk, I'm grateful to have left it in P (and to not have needed to choose the ISO sensitivity that would be the best for the shot - and I don't mean the camera chose it).

But then I'm not an artiste.

Now here's a nice P&S image:

Hate to think what kind of gear was used for it!

Best regards,

Doug

Hey Doug...you have guys on stilts crossing your sidewalks often and a 20d in a car seat! LOL! Sorry tho, I just can't agree. I would say if someone does not know thier camera well enough to instantly turn two dials and get a better shot, then they need to spend more time with the manual and more time shooting.

I don't know what the "artiste" comment means...please explain this.

Maybe for a beginner that would be fine...but I hope you are not saying that having less control over your camera is better than more control?

YMMV

Shane Carter · May 21, 2008

Asher Kelman said:
Shane,

The reference I gave was to product photography which can be executed perfectly well, if you so wish, in "P" mode. Now that is not my work, but my camera!

My own photography goes from film to 1DII, 5D and a little pocket digicam. I have taken wonderful stitched panoramas with the latter. The object is to merely execute what is on one's mind. So while I myself use manual and Av (aperture priority) mode for my Canon cameras, I don't see what's wrong with using an automatic function. After all, that what the light meter algorithms are that we use without qualms.

Manual gives the most control, but when light is changing, "P" will deliver the image.

Asher

Asher, are you saying that the photographer having LESS control over an image is better than more control??? P is 100% TERRIBLE for sports and PJ work...I do a lot of this. I do not know a single sports photographer over on SportsShooter.com where I'm a members that would argue that P is useful for sports. BTW, no two types of photography have more constantly changing light conditions than PJ work and sports. Sorry...not happening.

Stationary work, landscape for example, you would use P mode? I guess I don't know what to say. Perhaps some landscape shooters can chime in on this. For studio work, my goodness, manual and a meter is required...or maybe I should buy some new strobes that fire on P.

I would say for someone starting out, P mode would be OK while learning the craft...but surely this is not the end goal for photographers...would you disagree with that?

Also I did NOT say that P&S cameras are bad, I have one...and it is P often because my kid uses it and she has zero interest in understanding photography, she just wants snapshots of her buddies...which is FINE! I'm just not coming to a Photography Forum and going to suggest that snapshots are an end goal.

Shane Carter · May 21, 2008

Oh, Asher, you implied that I'm against program modes. I did not say that. I use Ap and Tv all the time, Ap more than Manual. However as you know, P is neither Ap or Tv and gives up all control of the image to camera.

In some cameras, it even gives up ISO...wow! What is left!

Doug Kerr · May 21, 2008

Hi, Shane,

Shane Canfield said:
I hope you are not saying that having less control over your camera is better than more control?

Not at all. I want to have full control over my camera, including the ability to set it so:

- It will choose neither the aperture nor the shutter speed (and then I will set both)

- It will set the shutter speed (after I set the aperture)

- It will set the aperture (after I set the shutter speed)

- It will set both aperture and shutter speed based on a program that I think is useful in many situations (and that I can shift whenever I want it to be different).

I have that control over my camera. But you don't over yours!

Best regards,

Doug

Jim Galli · May 21, 2008

Some snobbery here? I use P quite a lot. I understand exactly what it can and can't do and when I need to over-ride but I also understand there is a ton of stuff it can do perfectly. Why wouldn't I use it for those snap shots. If you want to have control, get an 8X10.

Shane Carter · May 21, 2008

Doug_Kerr said:
Hi, Shane,

Not at all. I want to have full control over my camera, including the ability to set it so:

- It will choose neither the aperture nor the shutter speed (and then I will set both)

- It will set the shutter speed (after I set the aperture)

- It will set the aperture (after I set the shutter speed)

- It will set both aperture and shutter speed based on a program that I think is useful in many situations (and that I can shift whenever I want it to be different).

I have that control over my camera. But you don't over yours!

Best regards,

Doug

Hi Doug, LOL!!! Just because one does not think P mode is preferrable means that one understands the camera more, not less!

Please explain an instance where letting the camera make ALL decisions for you is better than the "operator" for lack of a better term, than controlling at least one variable and letter the camera float the other.

Shane Carter · May 21, 2008

Jim Galli said:
Some snobbery here? I use P quite a lot. I understand exactly what it can and can't do and when I need to over-ride but I also understand there is a ton of stuff it can do perfectly. Why wouldn't I use it for those snap shots. If you want to have control, get an 8X10.

Snobbery! LOL! Understanding the camera and controlling photography is now snobbery.

Ever read Ansel Adams...is he a snob? How about all the great shooters until cameras became "automatic", are they are snobs? Is Robert Capa a snob? Cartier-Bresson? How about my grandfather who loves his old FT Nikons...and that I still use...does understanding wanting to understand how to use the tools of the craft now make one a snob! So be it.

I already said it was good for snap-shots...re-read my post.

Advocating 8x10s? OMG, the ultimate snobbery...how dare large format guys chime in.

Doug Kerr · May 21, 2008

Hi, Shane,

Shane Canfield said:
Hi Doug, LOL!!! Just because one does not think P mode is preferrable means that one understands the camera more, not less!

Did I say P mode is "preferable", or that you should think it is "preferable"?

Did I say anything anything about understanding the camera?

I said you do not have as much control over your camera as I have over mine.

Please explain an instance where letting the camera make ALL decisions for you is better than the "operator" for lack of a better term, than controlling at least one variable and letter the camera float the other.

Or, I rarely suggest letting the camera make all decisions for me. I thought we were speaking about aperture and shutter speed.

Two examples:

1. Guy on stilts suddenly comes into view. I want to grab the camera off the car seat and shoot. I do not have superhuman speed, so I can't turn two dials "instantly", nor am I an exposure meter with calculator, so I probably couldn't set them instantly to give the best exposure anyway, so I will have to take time to watch the little meter while I spin the dials. And I don't have that time.

2. Camera on tripod on the sidewalk. I fire it with a radio remote.

Best regards,

Doug

Shane Carter · May 21, 2008

Doug_Kerr said:
Hi, Shane,

Shane Canfield said:

Hi Doug, LOL!!! Just because one does not think P mode is preferrable means that one understands the camera more, not less![/qote]

Did I say P mode is "preferable", or that you should think it is "preferable"?

Did I say anything anything about understanding the camera?

Are you speaking to somebody else?

I must be following the wrong thread.

Or, I rarely suggest letting the camera make all decisions for me. I thought we were speaking about aperture and shutter speed.

Two examples:

1. Guy on stilts suddenly comes into view. I want to grab the camera off the car seat and shoot. I do not have superhuman speed, so I can't turn two dials "instantly", nor am I an exposure meter with calculator, so I probably couldn't set them instantly to give the best exposure anyway, so I will have to take time to watch the little meter while I spin the dials. And I don't have that time.

2. Camera on tripod on the sidewalk. I fire it with a radio remote.

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

I may be following the wrong thread, it feels like it. My apologies if I mixed your reponses up with another's...getting late here. But you did say I did not have control over my camera...which was amusing to me at the time.

As for the stilts guy, guess I would be quicker then. Would not use P. I would most likely want blur out all the distractions of the background so aperture priority and open up the lens...if I can't do that in a second or two at most, I should practice my dials.

Radio remote...you got me there, not my thing. Although will be shortly. Would you not set up the camera first and then the remote simply trips the shutter? Will be doing this shortly tho with a camera at the back of a soccer net so will have a better answer soon. If P is better than any other way of doing it, I will use P for sure, always the right tool for the job.

My understanding however, is that the preferrable way to do this is set up fully manual, including manual focus, open up the lens to the widest point where you can still get shutters that will stop the action, and pray when you fire it. Maybe Nill can chime in on that one, I think he uses remotes.

Asher Kelman · May 21, 2008

Shane,

I only gave a context of a product photographer who uses flash with reflectors and has set things up so that he gets what he wants all the time with jpgs with no need for adjustment other than perhaps an S curve or spotting.

I have seen wedding pros shoot to film cameras and a 3rd digital in "P" mode. If people earn their living that way, I have no issue.

Asher

Shane Carter · May 21, 2008

Asher Kelman said:
Shane,

I only gave a context of a product photographer who uses flash with reflectors and has set things up so that he gets what he wants all the time with jpgs with no need for adjustment other than perhaps an S curve or spotting.

I have seen wedding pros shoot to film cameras and a 3rd digital in "P" mode. If people earn their living that way, I have no issue.

Asher

I never said never use it.

If people want to use it, it is thier camera, so be it! I do however advocate not using it for the primary reason of being more in control. If however it is better than other modes, program modes or not, for a given situation...I have no problem with that either. My point is more that the best use of the camera is when not using P, which turns a nice dSLR into a P&S.

When do I use it...whenever I turn my camera over to another person to shoot that does not know the basics. Other than that, I suppose the guys on stilts argument might work...that would assume that I just left the camera by default on P and that was my default shooting method. My cameras are left on Ap most of the time because of all the sports and theatre shooting. I get older shooters sometimes razzing me for not shooting manual, but with the contantly variable light, manual just does not work...even under stadium lights. Sometimes I'll shoot shutter priority, mostly for panning and when blur of part of the scene is needed...propellers on a prop plan for instance, or blur on the wheels of a sports car.

I'm advocating using the camera to its fullest extent, which mean P is not on the menu...99% of time. If others disagree, it really does not affect my shooting...but why not advocate one's postion.

Kathy Rappaport · May 21, 2008

AV P and M

On a Canon, the P mode will suggest a setting and then let you adjust it. A dSLR will never be a point and shoot if you have spent any time using your camera on Manual. What it will do is assist you in makding a decision based on your own intellegence of knowing what it will capture on it's own. As for the camera firing on board flash - The 5d and Mark III do not have a built in flash. Only the Rebel and 30/40d have it.

Doug Kerr · May 21, 2008

Hi, Kathy,

Kathy Rappaport said:
As for the camera firing on board flash - The 5d and Mark III do not have a built in flash. Only the Rebel and 30/40d have it.

Well, and the D30/D60/10D.

In any case (and this is where I came in), none of those will peremptorily deploy and fire the onboard flash in P mode.

Best regards,

Doug

Cem_Usakligil · May 21, 2008

Doug_Kerr said:
Hi, Cem,

Cem_Usakligil said:

What I don't like about the P mode of recent digital cameras is that they also dictate a lot of other parameters such as engaging the built-in flash automatically (if there is one).

Click to expand...

Not so for the Canon EOS dSLRs. They do have a mode (Full Automatic, the "green box" mode) which is more automatic than their P mode and which will engage the flash at its pleasure.

Hi everybody,

Sorry for the confusion caused. I did mention this merely as a possible example. It wasn't my intention to imply that all cameras do this particular action. It was a bad example as it turns out to be.

Nevertheless, we digress. The question of the OP was whether anybody used the P mode. We may provide a simple answer to that simple question and even go on to explain as to why or why not.

This explanation can be based on certain facts (such as what the P mode on a certain camera can or cannot do) but also on circumstances of one's personal experience and (shooting) style.

It is perfectly OK to correct any factual errors like we have just done re. the P mode flash engagement on Canon cameras.

However, it is a minefield when we start questioning each others personal preferences and shooting style. I think that we should avoid this minefield. It is counterproductive

Kathy Rappaport · May 21, 2008

Forum

Well, if we're off topic, we talking about Canon in a Nikon Forum....

Chris Lilley · Jun 23, 2008

To answer the original question - no, I don't. Several reasons. One, most things I photograph are slow enough that optimum depth of field is the question rather than freezing the action. So I shoot either in A mode or (much of the time) M. Second, most of my lenses are manual focus and about two thirds of them don't meter either on my current body so - M mode it is, but with aperture set first and then shutter speed and ISO adjusted to suit circumstances. Thirdly, since I am manual focusing, taking a couple of seconds to decide what aperture best suits the shot is not a significant delay. I don't have the motor-drive, burst mode, sports shooter kind of personality, I guess

Chris Lilley · Jun 23, 2008

And just to be on-topic, the body in question is a D40.

Brian Patterson · Dec 7, 2008

I was a Program shooter for years until I discovered Auto ISO - now I shoot in Manual mode with the shutter speed and aperture set as I need them to be and let the camera vary ISO as the light changes. With my SB-800 flash, ISO remains constant at 200 on my D300. Now I can concentrate on metering and composition - much more fun and much better images!

John Sheehy · Dec 7, 2008

Brian Patterson said:
I was a Program shooter for years until I discovered Auto ISO - now I shoot in Manual mode with the shutter speed and aperture set as I need them to be and let the camera vary ISO as the light changes. With my SB-800 flash, ISO remains constant at 200 on my D300. Now I can concentrate on metering and composition - much more fun and much better images!

Lucky you.

Canon's pathetic auto-ISO fixes the ISO at 400 if flash is enabled in all modes, and also at ISO 400 for manual regardless of whether or not flash is enabled.

One has to wonder whether anyone in Canon's firmware department has ever taken a photograph other than in P&S style, or has ever read a user letter or photography forum.

Daniel Buck · Dec 8, 2008

for the exposure, P mode shouldn't give you any different result than A/V, T/V, or even M modes, if all you are going off is the exposure scale in the viewfinder. (disregarding all other effects of using different apertures or shutter speeds, accept for exposure) Personally, I like using A/V mode, because I usually care more about what aperture I'm using than what shutter speed I'm using, then use exposure compensation If I need to. But I do keep an eye on the shutter speed, incase it gets to low. But the actual exposure (detail in the shadows and so on) is probably no different than P mode with exposure compensation.

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