Partnerships are important

I'm on the verge of starting a new partnership. It's informal but probably lucrative.

I discovered a quickie wedding officiant. I suggested we worked together - they do the ceremony and I do the photography. Normally my cheapest rate is $300 for 2 hours and a CD. Since a quickie wedding is $50 and over in half an hour I dropped that rate to $100 with the CD and made myself available at very short notice as long as I get paid in cash.

I figure a lot of quickie weddings are worth more than a dozen or so full-price weddings spread throughout the year and a lot less work.

Oh I know I should just shut up, but really... can you cover your fixed and variable costs, including studio, equipment and transportation and the time to burn a CD (geez--a lot of value to the bride there!) for $100 a pop?

Really... is this a business? A retirement gig where you have the camera already and don't care about the $$ side of things? Or are you planning on shooting 50 of these a week?!

Of course, if you can do this and I'm crazy then more power to you. Seriously. The more competition there is at the shoot and burn level the less I have to worry about you guys

When there's a gap between bookings, it's a handy fill-in. The Reverand is local and tries to get people to have their ceremonies in the local park. In terms of driving etc, it's about 3 miles if that. The ceremonies last about 30 minutes with no reception. I figure it'll be a max of a couple of dozen images. Do a quick post-process - sharpen, saturate, correct any exposure errors, maybe play with the levels if the sky is burnt out and burn to disk. That's pretty much my $300, 2-hour package but redesigned for a 30 minute package. The people that go for quickie weddings don't have a lot of cash so why not use otherwise unproductive down time to get some money. In terms of actual costs... Maybe $2 for fuel and $1 for a CD plus electricity, the paper and ink the bills and receipts are on - maybe 20 cents. Then the occasional favour for the Reverand to keep her sweet and I walk away after maybe 90 minutes with $100 in my pocket of which probably $80 - $90 is pure profit.

Rhys Sage said:

I'm on the verge of starting a new partnership. It's informal but probably lucrative.

I discovered a quickie wedding officiant. I suggested we worked together - they do the ceremony and I do the photography. Normally my cheapest rate is $300 for 2 hours and a CD. Since a quickie wedding is $50 and over in half an hour I dropped that rate to $100 with the CD and made myself available at very short notice as long as I get paid in cash.

I figure a lot of quickie weddings are worth more than a dozen or so full-price weddings spread throughout the year and a lot less work.

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Hi Rhys,

You can earn more than that doing model shoots TFP or $350. Book 5 girls for the afternoon. Simply photograph them for 40 minutes, with a paid makeup artist, post all your good pictures on line, they choose 10 (just ~3 for TFP) 8x10 prints in any combination and get 30 jpgs (~15 jpg TFP) for their website portfolio. Give them a price list for more 8x10 prints or post cards and an extra photoshopping, dropping them into a beach scene or B&W versions. Voila you have an income. Don't bother with CD's unless you are testing your camera or lighting!

For quickie weddings, they want fast service which cost more not less. You are not a street corner whore! Again no wedding shoot an just take 1 hr. There is time to prepare and deal with your pictures. $300 for a wedding is hardly covering any costs. If you feel privileged to do that, then perhaps. But it doesn't make sense otherwise. Also you are taking bread off some other photographer's table for no real gain to yourself. Cameras are out of date in 18 months. Computers take space, electricity, hard drives, software and more and you have to count that. Even the storage place for you strobes is a cost! As you get better you raise your prices.

To do it right, give them a package of 5 immediate prints and a small book to follow for $400. Then a price list for anything else.

Otherwise, driving a cab might be more fun!

Asher

Business Model

In order to understand your business model, if all the leads go one way, then all that source of business would dry up if you don't have the reverend's buy in. What would be a better way to market it would be as a package from both of you that includes the photography as well. What would keep the Rev from referring it to another photographer who would do it for less?

Kathy Rappaport said:

In order to understand your business model, if all the leads go one way, then all that source of business would dry up if you don't have the reverend's buy in. What would be a better way to market it would be as a package from both of you that includes the photography as well. What would keep the Rev from referring it to another photographer who would do it for less?

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Give him a cut!

Asher Kelman said:

Give him a cut!

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That's the plan

10% referral fee

Sure I end up making after costs about $80 but it's $80 more than I had before.

Rhys Sage said:

That's the plan

10% referral fee

Sure I end up making after costs about $80 but it's $80 more than I had before.

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LOL!! so now you're at $80 gross take-away for "90 minutes" work--*and* you haven't factored anything for your equipment or workflow time or space yet! I die with this stuff, really....

Not only that, but Kathy actually says "what if he gets someone cheaper?!!!" You guys are killing me here!!

Anyway, whatever floats your boat. If you think this is viable, then I'm no-one to tell you otherwise.

Now the serious question: what happens to your lucrative partnership when you have a real wedding on the same day and time as the advertised partnership hours?

James Roberts said:

LOL!! so now you're at $80 gross take-away for "90 minutes" work--*and* you haven't factored anything for your equipment or workflow time or space yet! I die with this stuff, really....

Not only that, but Kathy actually says "what if he gets someone cheaper?!!!" You guys are killing me here!!

Anyway, whatever floats your boat. If you think this is viable, then I'm no-one to tell you otherwise.

Now the serious question: what happens to your lucrative partnership when you have a real wedding on the same day and time as the advertised partnership hours?

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It's going to be more of an informal partnership and we will be in touch. This is a quickie - short-notice thingy. If I have a big wedding coming, I can say so. I book big stuff in advance. Quickie stuff can be at very short notice.

Rhys Sage said:

It's going to be more of an informal partnership and we will be in touch. This is a quickie - short-notice thingy. If I have a big wedding coming, I can say so. I book big stuff in advance. Quickie stuff can be at very short notice.

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Rhys,

What's needed is to take you out drinking so we can get you out of this delusion of price structure! You cannot be seriously contemplating doing what your propose and calling it business. You didn't comment on my two suggestions, but I was dead serious and thought out carefully what I wrote. Now some parameters might not be quite right, straight out of the gate, but the two ideas will at least put you on the right track to actually earning money.

Think of business as like stamping your foot to startle people. You cannot do that in slow motion.

Asher

Rhys,

Here's a question I should have posed before. Are you confident that you can produce the professional pictures the couple hopes for and would expect. If you say yes, then everything I've said applies. If you market yourself as worth on $85 net, then that's how people will respond to you. That would hardly cover replacing batteries, CF cards and gas!

Are you are a casual photographer or is wedding photography how you earn a living? Either way, you are not better or worse, but at least, it might help us get our orientation. Excuse me if I seem in your face, I really don't intend to be abrasive. I do sometimes misread clues, I admit. So bear with me and let us know where you are coming from.

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Rhys,

Here's a question I should have posed before. Are you confident that you can produce the professional pictures the couple hopes for and would expect. If you say yes, then everything I've said applies. If you market yourself as worth on $85 net, then that's how people will respond to you. That would hardly cover replacing batteries, CF cards and gas!

Are you are a casual photographer or is wedding photography how you earn a living? Either way, you are not better or worse, but at least, it might help us get our orientation. Excuse me if I seem in your face, I really don't intend to be abrasive. I do sometimes misread clues, I admit. So bear with me and let us know where you are coming from.

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I'm essentially building my portfolio and charging lower than normal prices with the aim of building them up when I get more people booking me. I started my photography business last year and thus far, I've not had many serious enquiries. This is mostly why I put a TV advert campaign out - to drive more people toward my website and into booking me. At the moment, I don't care how little the income is as long as there is income!

But if you only have budget work to show and quicky weddings in your portfolio, that is what you will attract.

Kathy Rappaport said:

But if you only have budget work to show and quicky weddings in your portfolio, that is what you will attract.

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It doesn't have to look like a cheap Uncle Bob snapshot.

Hi, Rhys,

Kathy is not only a portrait and wedding photographer, (some PR and boudoir thrown in) but she is also a very experienced tax and business plan consultant. So if she gives advice, that's the perspective I'd look at. She's, like me a pragmatic optimist, but I'd say somewhat more grounded. It's very difficult to escape a public concept that you create for yourself.

I would offer that you might consider starting my photographing models dressed up as brides. visit a small local wedding gown store and offer to photograph girls in the dresses for them. It could be the customers, their models or else you bring the models. Just join model Mayhem. Announce a call for models of the size the wedding dresses are and then similarly get a make up artist. She is the most important person. Maybe the store will pay for that. you do need the store to accept that makeup may get on the inside of the top of the dress. That happens.

This kind of approach removes pressure on you and protects you from too much exposure. You might practice your lighting set up with a single borrowed dress and a guy in a Tux standing in for the groom. When you have nailed the dress, gown and veil as well as a set of pearls, not blowing them out or having a shiny face, you have gotten half way. Now extend that and still get the black tux beautifully drawn, (not just one level of blackness) to match the detail in the gown and veil.

At that point you can collaborate with the wedding gown store.

I'd try to work with a second photographer, as once you get any sort of decent jobs, it's very hard work to cover a full wedding, which is where the money is.

I hope this is of some help to you!

Asher

No, it doesn't need to be Uncle Bob quality. But big money brides want to see the whole enchilada and it really does show in the images that the dress isn't Vera Wang and the shoes Jimmy Choos and the venue was a public park. Where's the church, the limo and Dom?

Asher, thanks for the kind words. Yes, I've been a business consultant for many years. You have to have a brand and keep it consistent. you can do the budget thing if you keep it all separate and you have the goods to show the higher end brides. Be careful not to get pigeonholed. Use a different company name.

Kathy Rappaport said:

No, it doesn't need to be Uncle Bob quality. But big money brides want to see the whole enchilada and it really does show in the images that the dress isn't Vera Wang and the shoes Jimmy Choos and the venue was a public park. Where's the church, the limo and Dom?

Asher, thanks for the kind words. Yes, I've been a business consultant for many years. You have to have a brand and keep it consistent. you can do the budget thing if you keep it all separate and you have the goods to show the higher end brides. Be careful not to get pigeonholed. Use a different company name.

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My point though is it's money coming in. I'm not going to turn up my nose at money coming in. I'm not going to start doing 8-hour weddings for $1 although with the right marketing and charges distributed around for everything else, that could work for some.

I have one wedding on my online portfolio. I just need to add a few more. Also some portrait shots. I looked at one wedding photographer's website and saw spectacular photos but of just one couple (which is a critiscism I can level at my own website). In the instance of the other photographer, I know her work and know darned well she never took those photos!

I'm not afraid of being pigeonholed. I can always break out of a pigeonhole, even if it means spending a massive $250 on a new company name and new corporate identity.

Question

Folks: How much do good photographers charge for a wedding nowadays? Does digitalization make them cheaper? I've shot four weddings: two for free (friends) and two for money. I charged $1200, which covered the cost of color printing and my own film, batteries, dark room time for black and white, etc. I didn't leave me a huge profit.


D

doug anderson said:

Folks: How much do good photographers charge for a wedding nowadays? Does digitalization make them cheaper? I've shot four weddings: two for free (friends) and two for money. I charged $1200, which covered the cost of color printing and my own film, batteries, dark room time for black and white, etc. I didn't leave me a huge profit.


D

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I can tell you the costs of digital...

Prints at 10x8 cost about $2 each if you have them done online. Then add postage but that's not very much if you get a shed load of prints done each time.

Film cost - zero. You can reuse the memory cards many times over. On a single 4GB card you can get 500 8mp photos, shot in RAW.

Gear depreciation... If you can offset gear against tax then you can write it off in a single year.

Running costs - electricity, office, stationary, marketing/advertising, insurance, transport.

CDs are about 50c, DVDs about $1.

Computers - if you keep the thing offline all the time then you don't need to replace it every two years because the updates won't slow it nor will the increasing complexity of the antivirus as you don't need either.

If you shoot and burn then you can shoot for a very low cost and for little to no hassle as you don't have to do a proof book or anything like that. If I could find somewhere that would give me a ton of 10% off printing coupons, I'd dole those out with a CD.

The days of film being higher resolution than digital are almost over - even at the low end of the spectrum. I cannot imagine printing to 20x30 with 35mm film unless it was Kodachrome 25 or Agfapan 25.

Essentially, once you own a 6mp dSLR then you don't really need to upgrade it. I use 8mp and look at the new 15mp and 24mp cameras with amusement. Most people only want a 10x8 print so 24mp is overkill.

doug anderson said:

Folks: How much do good photographers charge for a wedding nowadays? Does digitalization make them cheaper? I've shot four weddings: two for free (friends) and two for money. I charged $1200, which covered the cost of color printing and my own film, batteries, dark room time for black and white, etc. I didn't leave me a huge profit.


D

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The really good ones (not the most expensive ones) gross between $5,000 and $10,000 per wedding once the final albums are delivered (and none of them shoot and burn to my knowledge).

This varies across geographies, of course, but not by as much as you might think. It's slightly higher in the US than here in Canada, but the good ones do indeed make that much.

Why? Well, I've figured out my fixed and variable costs to show up to a normal wedding are about $1500 CAN. So, just like Doug, $1200 US isn't going to leave me any profit at all, if I'm honest about it being a business.

Digital is no less expensive than film per album if a fine print is the final output. However, the cost per shot is very much less, so I can deliver better / different kinds of albums now than I could with film.

Proper colour correction of digital costs more than film, since most labs are terrible at it and "out of the camera" is generally quite horrible in print, regardless of camera. Of course, you have to know what a good print is supposed to look like

The most expensive wedding photographers in the US, if you can believe their own press and price lists, are upwards of $20 - $50K per wedding, but you have to remember there are people who spend hundreds of thousands, if not millions, on weddings.

Rhys Sage said:

{snipped}
Essentially, once you own a 6mp dSLR then you don't really need to upgrade it. I use 8mp and look at the new 15mp and 24mp cameras with amusement. Most people only want a 10x8 print so 24mp is overkill.

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You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but then I look often look at 6mp group shots printed at 8 * 10 with amusement (and revulsion), especially compared with MF film print from the "old" days.

The amount of detail per face is ridiculously low for a good print, and the cheaper lenses just make this worse.

Digital resolution also goes out the window as you stop down due to diffraction limits at the sensor (well, and the glass), so your 16mp camera ends up with 2MP of data. Now, about that group shot with 100 people...

Hang on, 6mp is 2,000 pixels by 3,000. The optimum quality for prints is 300dpi which gives us 7.5"x10". Given that most (99.9%) people can't resolve more than 150 dpi this means a 6mp camera can do a very nice print of 16x20. I contend therefore that 6mp is fine. I use 8mp and print to 20x30 with no problems.

Now, regarding what I see as protectionism...

How are the $500 shoot and burn people, the $250 shoot and burn people, the $100 shoot and burn people affecting your business?

Somebody with enough money to pay for a $50,000 photographer is not going to say "ooh. I can get this guy for $100". They're going to be looking at a price range.

Similarly, most people will look at photography and say "how much is this guy or that guy". They'll take a list of who charges what and will work out how much they want to pay and what they can get for their money. They'll work out a price range and will buy on the higher end of that range. I'm muscling in on the bargain basement stuff but intend to work my way up.

Stupidly a lot of people will look at online portfolios and believe that's all the photographer does or will believe what's in the online portfolio was actually taken by the photographer. My wife and I believed our wedding photographer's online portfolio was their own work. Our wedding pictures proved otherwise.

James Roberts said:

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but then I look often look at 6mp group shots printed at 8 * 10 with amusement (and revulsion), especially compared with MF film print from the "old" days.

The amount of detail per face is ridiculously low for a good print, and the cheaper lenses just make this worse.

Digital resolution also goes out the window as you stop down due to diffraction limits at the sensor (well, and the glass), so your 16mp camera ends up with 2MP of data. Now, about that group shot with 100 people...

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Great points, James.

Your opinion is based on outstanding experience and not theory. Sharing this is generous.

Rhys,

I’m not a professional wedding photographer. So follow James first.

I still can give solid leads to achieving your objectives to join the ranks of pros who deliver what’s needed and earn a good living doing so. Weddings are perhaps the most stressful for any way of earning a living as hopes and dreams are on the line and everyone is nervous, excited and you still have to perform under stress and with things going wrong.

My advice to the photographer intending to make weddings part of his/her professional life, is to work assisting an established pro. This is like brain surgery. However, because there is no regulation for standards for photography, no careful apprenticeship is required. So there's nothing I know to prevent 6MP DSLR owners from doing weddings as a kindness. Well people have very different financial resources, so there is a market for the weekend warriors who just do what they can.

Still I'd strongly recommend spending time and effort to master some principles.

A 6MP camera is perfectly fine for a portrait printed at 8x10 if the entire face uses the 6MP. However, the aperture probably shouldn't be small, such as f8 or f11. Why? Because the pixel pitch is tiny and that really defines and reveals the small aperture-distortion of the waveform of light the way the focus of any point is delivered past the metal aperture blades. This is just physics. Now let's go further. We must think of pixels per detail one needs to define. As soon as one devotes that 6MP to a group of people or to a brides dress and veil, one is challenged to really write sufficient detail into an image file.

Fortunately for the weekend warrior, many brides and their mothers have no idea about photography and seeing the pictures and smiles, they will treasure your prints anyway. However, that doesn't let us off the hook. That's where professionalism and ethics come in. We should be using the best technique.

So what to do? I'd suggest getting a film camera, a Hasselblad or other MF film camera that can be rented for the weekend for group shots. Professional Film labs do know how to process film perfectly well. There is no block to doing this as one can rent the equipment and be comfortable with it well before using it on a real wedding. A 1DsII is also good. But remember that 16MP is not a lot for a large group. The reception casual shots can easily be covered with a 6MP DSLR, as these are not required to be high resolution.

Cover the important bridal and group shots with both MF film and your 6MP digital. Even just 20 good formal MF film pictures will provide a major improvement in what can be delivered. Anyway, one needs at least two cameras.

You have only one life on this planet. Don't waste that precious time doing things at the lowest acceptable level. You will be thrilled by aiming higher. I'm very serious about people doing weddings since there are dreams and magic to deliver and get into a book for memories. O.K., you might manage that, but you need to be realistic about what you get for that.

Any idea of being happy with $88 is really not serious, unless one just wants to donate one's time to poor people. Think of yourself then as a small electronics storeowner who wants to sell his 60" monitors for $88 because he got them cheap. That's an exceptional kindness however, it's not business. If you want to just be kind to people then that's a fine gesture. However, it has nothing to do with earning a living and being a wedding photographer.

I have taken a plane up to Northern California to do help in a wedding but paid for all my own expenses as this came from my heart and getting money would degrade my own generosity. Separate acts of charity from earning a living! Think of $2000 being just about the floor for your weddings.

Asher

Hi all
this thread reminds me quite the same discussion that happened about a year ago, it was initiated by Gary Yelland…

It seems that here always be someone ready to shoot one's foot while breaking prices for the sake of competition… this is the best way to kill us all… unacceptable!

so… A good read or reread…

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3151…

Reading through all the responses, both I and my friends (who run their own businesses) are baffled about the stiff opposition there is to my business ideas. They run businesses in the real world and agree that the traditional way to get customers is to lure the first hundred or so with low prices and then get one's name established.

Quite frankly, I don't think much of the opposition. Are you all really scared that somebody advertising a top price of $1200 for an 8 hour wedding with 20 x 8"x10" prints and 20x 5" x 7" prints thrown in together with a vCD and a CD of images is going to bankrupt people charging $2,500, $5,000 etc especially when they're in different states? We're talking about entirely different markets here. Not just different countries and different states but also different markets.

The people willing to spend $200,000 on their daughter's 16th birthday party is not going to hire a photographer charging less than $5,000 - $10,000.

The people buying $50 weddings from the local freelance Vicar are not going to spend $500+ on 30 minutes of wedding photography. They're either going to do the job themselves with a friend who has a zoom compact or aren't going to bother. I'm trying to muscle in, in every market with low prices to get known.

People realise prices rise. So my prices will rise - in line with demand.

Certainly $80 profit from a 30 minute wedding is not very much. On the other hand, how much do you get from a portrait session? If you charge $500 for a portrait, people are going to head straight over to Walmart or Olan Mills and pay $15 instead.

Then there's always Bella - they charge $3,000 to the client and pay the photographer $500. They get plenty photographers working for them!

I am not a wedding photographer.

But, Rhys, your business plan logic seems terribly flawed. You're not selling addictive drugs. You're not even selling to repeatable customers (yes, I know about the divorce rate). So low-balling your way into popularity seems very much like a formula for remaining in the crap bin.

Consider this. Bride A tells Bride B that you did her wedding for some owner-has-brain-damage low price. What price do think Bride B will expect? And Bride C? And if you don't give Bride B the same low-ball price there will be no Bride C because Bride B will not refer Bride C to you.

I wonder if you have a good grasp on your market.

an example

One of my business management clients is a wedding photographer. He'd been a commercial photographer and had another business venture which was sold and went back to photography discovering he loved doing weddings. He had a family to support so he started up with some Craigslist bookings to keep afloat. Mind you he's top notch. In Los Angeles, a decent Craigslist shooter might get $1000-$1500 at most for a shoot and burn.

Now he has a lot of portfolio material. He actually was averaging about $2500 - 3000 after print and album sales from the Craigslist brides and starts an advertising campaign for higher end weddings. But the portfolio work actually is excellent but not showing the Ritz Carlton/High End type venues with designer gowns and Tiffany jewelery. He had a very hard time transitioning out of the low end market because of the images he was showing - even though they were perfect and creative and extraordinarily well done.
There is a snob factor in the market. People want a bargain, but, when it comes to the high end market, if you cannot show a high end result in your portfolio, you cannot command the pricing and the transition to get there is very expensive in positioning yourself to get there. Once you have a reputation for low end work, you will suffer climbing up to get there. I have seen this multiple times from multiple photographers.

Rhys Sage said:

Reading through all the responses, both I and my friends (who run their own businesses) are baffled about the stiff opposition there is to my business ideas. They run businesses in the real world and agree that the traditional way to get customers is to lure the first hundred or so with low prices and then get one's name established.

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Rhys, you've been given some sound advice. When you aim low, you'll shoot low!
When you establish your name based on low prices, that's exactly what you've establshed; a death trap for profitable growth, a budget reputation.

Quite frankly, I don't think much of the opposition. Are you all really scared that somebody advertising a top price of $1200 for an 8 hour wedding with 20 x 8"x10" prints and 20x 5" x 7" prints thrown in together with a vCD and a CD of images is going to bankrupt people charging $2,500, $5,000 etc especially when they're in different states? We're talking about entirely different markets here. Not just different countries and different states but also different markets.

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I hope you don't take offence, you've been given good advice, but you're not getting it!

On a budget, one cannot deliver sustained top quality. Top quality requires talent, care, and attention to detail. It requires commitment and reliability, it also requires equipment (and backup), and studies and learning, and expertise to achieve consistent quality, quality that lasts, quality worth paying for. Even if you want to survive in a budget environment, you'll need to outclass your budget competitors. Lowering one's prices will inevitably lead to lowering everybody's standards of expectation, which will lead to lower prices. It's a deathtrap.

There's nothing wrong with trying to obtain a position in a market, but price alone will not cut it. One has to be much more clever than that, if one wants to survive long term that is.

The people willing to spend $200,000 on their daughter's 16th birthday party is not going to hire a photographer charging less than $5,000 - $10,000.

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So you are willing to be paid $5,000 - $10,000 instead of $200,000 ??? Sounds like a bad business plan. Aim low, and you'll shoot low! And don't think that $5000 can be made, because there will always be somebody somewhere who's willing to do it for $4000, probably with a matching quality level.

People realise prices rise. So my prices will rise - in line with demand.

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No, costs rise, margins shrink, prices drop because of lowered expectations. People will look for lower priced alternatives, unless they want certainty about the level of quality and they are able and willing to pay for it. Guess where they will start looking for quality? They won't look at those with an established budget reputation, they will look for established quality reputations and expect prices to match.

Bart

Rhys,

I'm perplexed by the lack of fit between the well crafted responses to your business plan and your own appreciation of how they answered your needs. The fact that your business friends find the responses "hilarious", implies to me that perhaps we have been discussing two very different concepts of photography, hardly related to one anther.

Just to re-calibrate our discussion, could you let us know if you have ever done a formal wedding photography assignement as an assistant and/or principal photographer? If so how many of each. This is not a put down question. OPF is straightforward. We want to help but with a realistic frame of reference. Is photography your day job, or is this a hobby? There is nothing wrong with any answer, just it allows us to give answers more relevent to your purposes. It could be that you just want to nibble at the edge of photography buisness and for you the fun and anf $850 for 10 shoots a month is indeed ample for your needs.

We have been thinking more of our concept of professional wedding photography, with particularly demanding standards, technique, style and ability to adjust to any contingency. There is no "managing" to do a job, rather nailing it with flair and delight that shows outstanding quality. This is not a snobby description, just the reality for anyone who actually wants to succeeed in this competitive market.

So is it possible we have been discussing two different job descriptions? If your plan is a casual extension of a hobby, then I understand better why we are talking past each other.

Asher

Ok. I have shot weddings, commercial stuff etc. I've done airshows, portraits etc. Currently I'm trying to get my still-life subjects nailed. In fact I've just ordered a couple of lamp holders for use with my brolleys. I did think about a softbox but as I have a white umbrella I figured I'd use that instead. If necessary I can always buy a softbox later.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to get photography working for me in the US. I've been doing a load of computer repairs but I'm so sick of computer repairs and Windows problems that I'm breaking away in a totally different direction. I started my photo business here, last year. Until recently I'd not done any serious advertising. Now though I'm hitting the advertising hard and also working more on my online portfolio. Obviously my physical portfolio contains more images - many of which I can't put online as I don't have releases for a lot of them to be online.

As far as weddings go, you've seen my packages from the straightforward shoot and burn to those with prints as well.

The prices I'm charging aren't the prices that I shall always be charging. They will rise as business picks up. I estimate doubling my prices over the next 12 months, business permitting. After that I'll try to avoid doing a Wispa. (Wispa started at a very low price then the price went up and down until it found its price point. It was laughable because the price went like a yo-yo for months).

In terms of photography - I record the event. I try not to do posed photos unless the Pastor does not allow flash photography during the ceremony. I do try to get the creative stuff in like the rings on the ring cushion, bridesmaid's shoes on a bench, bride looking out through a window and in the mirror etc.

In terms of money - I just need to build up my name around here as a photographer. Thus right now I don't really care about the money. I use low prices as an attraction. I did try offering freebie shoots but got screwed each time so now I don't do anything free.