Beach in winter

[Cem_Usakligil]

Here is an opportunistic and cliche shot of mine, which I have doubted a lot whether I should show it or not. Opportunistic because I was out on a shoot with Bart and he has kindly let me borrow his shiny new Lee 10x ND filter so that I could take the shot. Normally, long exposure photography is not my thing and I don't own the required ND filters either. Cliche, because most of the long exposure shots on the internet show similar scenes to this one. So should this be binned by the virtue of that? Or does it have its own merits, especially in the area of composition and nice pastel colors? I would like to have your thoughts on this pls.

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[Tom Robbins]

Hi Cem, I'm glad you posted this one. It is very enjoyable for its gentle colors—silver sky, aqua sea, warm sand—as you suggest.

I have never tried long exposure photography, but have long pondered doing so. The areas I typically haunt usually do not afford the circumstances that benefit from long exposures. However, it is certainly possible that a situation exists for which no one has thought to give it a try. So, your photo brings attention to a technique often overlooked, and is certainly appreciated for that reason as well.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Here is an opportunistic and cliche shot of mine, which I have doubted a lot whether I should show it or not. Opportunistic because I was out on a shoot with Bart and he has kindly let me borrow his shiny new Lee 10x ND filter so that I could take the shot. Normally, long exposure photography is not my thing and I don't own the required ND filters either. Cliche, because most of the long exposure shots on the internet show similar scenes to this one. So should this be binned by the virtue of that? Or does it have its own merits, especially in the area of composition and nice pastel colors? I would like to have your thoughts on this pls.

​

Cem,

This is one exceptional picture. It has water in delicate translucent sheets like layers of silk over the thighs of a woman. The 5 wooden remnants of some peer structure or landing, provide place for the eye to stop and then we ask about what went before, This has conflict and destruction but is also tranquility and timeless ness. I think this picture is highly commendable!

I could not give a whit for what anyone thinks is cliche, just whether or not, when I close my eyes this kiss seems real, and it does. I'd love to see the other pictures you say are to be dismissed too because of an extended exposure like this!

I you can call this shot opportunistic because you shot it with someone else's filter, than a shot from a car with someone else driving would have to be disqualified too, "LOL. In fact everything would have to be disqualified because of some equally dependency!

Cem, the only problem I see with this child of yours is getting siblings worthy of standing with it!

Asher

 

[Andrew Stannard]

This is a wonderful shot Cem, no need for you to wonder if it is clichéd or not - it can stand on its own. The muted colours bring a nice sense of calm to the scene helped, of course, by the long exposure.

Have recently purchased a Lee 10x myself, so will n doubt be paying a visit to the local beach soon!


Regards,
Andrew.

 

[Jerome Marot]

It needs to be heavily cropped to work for me. I like the pastel colors and the foam around the wood posts, but the sand is alien to the picture in my opinion.

 

[Asher Kelman]

It needs to be heavily cropped to work for me. I like the pastel colors and the foam around the wood posts, but the sand is alien to the picture in my opinion.

Jerome,

Given the color of the sand, it would be fairly easy to remove. Just as a matter of art ideas, would you consider replacing the sand with something and if so what?

Asher

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi Cem, I'm glad you posted this one. It is very enjoyable for its gentle colors—silver sky, aqua sea, warm sand—as you suggest.

I have never tried long exposure photography, but have long pondered doing so. The areas I typically haunt usually do not afford the circumstances that benefit from long exposures. However, it is certainly possible that a situation exists for which no one has thought to give it a try. So, your photo brings attention to a technique often overlooked, and is certainly appreciated for that reason as well.

Thanks a lot Tom, appreciated.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Cem,

This is one exceptional picture. It has water in delicate translucent sheets like layers of silk over the thighs of a woman. The 5 wooden remnants of some peer structure or landing, provide place for the eye to stop and then we ask about what went before, This has conflict and destruction but is also tranquility and timeless ness. I think this picture is highly commendable!

I could not give a whit for what anyone thinks is cliche, just whether or not, when I close my eyes this kiss seems real, and it does. I'd love to see the other pictures you say are to be dismissed too because of an extended exposure like this!

I you can call this shot opportunistic because you shot it with someone else's filter, than a shot from a car with someone else driving would have to be disqualified too, "LOL. In fact everything would have to be disqualified because of some equally dependency!

Cem, the only problem I see with this child of yours is getting siblings worthy of standing with it!

Asher

Hi Asher, thanks for your considerate comments. I have actually some siblings from a shoot last year:

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[Cem_Usakligil]

This is a wonderful shot Cem, no need for you to wonder if it is clichéd or not - it can stand on its own. The muted colours bring a nice sense of calm to the scene helped, of course, by the long exposure.

Have recently purchased a Lee 10x myself, so will n doubt be paying a visit to the local beach soon!


Regards,
Andrew.

Thanks Andrew. Please let us show the results when you have the chance.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

It needs to be heavily cropped to work for me. I like the pastel colors and the foam around the wood posts, but the sand is alien to the picture in my opinion.

Thanks Jerome, I will think about it. My initial feeling about the sand is not the same as yours but this may change as time passes.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Cem,

Share with us, if you might, the math of the filter ND x10. What could one accomplish with a 4x ND under these identical conditions in shutter speed? Since there's some blur, would it matter if we passed the point of resolving diffraction and used, say f16 or f22?

BTW, I never shoot water with a slow shutter speed and this circumstance seems highly profitable. Milky rivers, OTOH and soft waterfalls are not my style.

Asher

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Cem,

Share with us, if you might, the math of the filter ND x10. What could one accomplish with a 4x ND under these identical conditions in shutter speed? Since there's some blur, would it matter if we passed the point of resolving diffraction and used, say f16 or f22?

BTW, I never shoot water with a slow shutter speed and this circumstance seems highly profitable. Milky rivers, OTOH and soft waterfalls are not my style.

Asher

For example, in this particular case, the correct exposure without the filter was ISO 100, f8, 1/30 second.

By adding a x10 ND filter, the shutter speed has then become:
1/30>1/15>1/8>1/4>1/2>1/1>2>4>8>15>30 sec.
(ps: you can also use the formula: new shutter speed in seconds = old shutter speed in seconds x 1024. In this case, 1/30 is 0.0333 seconds x 1024 = 34.1 seconds)

If you had a 4x ND filter instead, the shutter speed would be:
1/30>1/15>1/8>1/4>1/2 sec.

As you can see, the blurring caused by a shutter speed of 1/2 second would not be comparable to the blurring caused by a shutter speed 30 seconds.

However, you could push the aperture to f22 from f8. This would give you a shutter speed of 4 seconds. Still, this is not in the same ball park as the 30 sec. And you would have to apply deconvolution sharpening to compensate for the diffraction caused.

BTW, milky rivers and soft waterfalls are not my style either. That is one of the reasons I am so hesitant about these pictures.

 

[Jerome Marot]

Jerome,

Given the color of the sand, it would be fairly easy to remove. Just as a matter of art ideas, would you consider replacing the sand with something and if so what?

Asher

I had not considered replacingthe sand, just cropping out. But now that you ask, I tried to desaturate it a bit and I find the result quite pleasing.

 

[Asher Kelman]

.........

As you can see, the blurring caused by a shutter speed of 1/2 second would not be comparable to the blurring caused by a shutter speed 30 seconds.

Thanks, Cem, that's the basic stuff I needed to know from the lighting of the scene. So then 10 X is very convenient. The other value of 30 seconds is that people running by would vanish.

However, you could push the aperture to f22 from f8. This would give you a shutter speed of 4 seconds. Still, this is not in the same ball park as the 30 sec. And you would have to apply deconvolution sharpening to compensate for the diffraction caused.

Bart often references new ideas on deconvolution. If there's good software then it's worth doing. One could use f22 and underexpose one stop.

So now I see how very valuable the 10X filters really is!

Asher

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

And here's my take on the same location, similar technique, a few minutes earlier:

I tried to achieve a combination of activity through composition, and dream like tranquility due to motion blur. I haven't decided yet on the buoy in the background, whether to keep it, or (re)move it. I tend to keeping it as shot.

Cheers,
Bart

 

[Asher Kelman]

And here's my take on the same location, similar technique, a few minutes earlier:

I tried to achieve a combination of activity through composition, and dream like tranquility due to motion blur. I haven't decided yet on the buoy in the background, whether to keep it, or (re)move it. I tend to keeping it as shot.

Cheers,
Bart

Bart,

The small differences in your work from Cem's reveal the sometimes extreme consequences of minute changes in form and content.

Bart, I find the zig-zag of the lines of posts so engaging. The extra complexity differentiates your work from Cem's and the disturbance and complete stop of motion by the tiny red buoy, make this a different experience altogether. That tiny fleck of a picture element is a complete surprise when one discovers it. It's is as shocking to me as the voice of Darth Vader, in Star Wars, "You can't kill me, ... I'm your father! That new piece of information makes one rewind the movie and alter the significance of much that has gone before that point. Same with this picture. That buoy is such a surprise when one finally discovers it, that one has to start all over again. But it does not speak clearly like Dart Vader. Instead, we're perplexed and we just restart scanning the soft images of the layered waters and go over the image meaning, again and again without resolution.

This way of constructing a composition might have special value for us. We'd have to see more. I'd find this picture a great deal more demanding to repeat in some way. This would be some impressive exercise to be able to come up with as many siblings as Cem has, (with his simpler and even cleaner), slow shutter speed pictures.

Asher

 

[Andy brown]

Hi Cem, I really like it and I don't find it cliche.

I'm all for some movement of water, especially the ocean.
Any way you can convey its moods, tides or power should be utilised.

I love this one of yours, great composition.
It would be a brave man to all it cliche.

​

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi Cem, I really like it and I don't find it cliche.

I'm all for some movement of water, especially the ocean.
Any way you can convey its moods, tides or power should be utilised.

I love this one of yours, great composition.
It would be a brave man to all it cliche.

Thanks a lot Andy. I have printed that picture at a size of 60x90 cm, on AluDibond backplate with acrylic glass on top. It looks gorgeous, even if I say so myself.

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Bart,

The small differences in your work from Cem's reveal the sometimes extreme consequences of minute changes in form and content.

Hi Asher,

Yes, that's why we posted the images in the same thread.

Bart, I find the zig-zag of the lines of posts so engaging. The extra complexity differentiates your work from Cem's and the disturbance and complete stop of motion by the tiny red buoy, make this a different experience altogether.

I think we both got what we set out to achieve, I went for a mix of compositional/suggested action and dream-like atmosphere, and I suppose Cem went for the same atmosphere with a bit more symmetry which enhances any asymmetry. The front legs of my tripod were submerged some of the time, it was incoming tide, so the sand plays a smaller role, and the distant buoy gains importance for the distance clues.

That tiny fleck of a picture element is a complete surprise when one discovers it. It's is as shocking to me as the voice of Darth Vader, in Star Wars, "You can't kill me, ... I'm your father! That new piece of information makes one rewind the movie and alter the significance of much that has gone before that point. Same with this picture. That buoy is such a surprise when one finally discovers it, that one has to start all over again. But it does not speak clearly like Dart Vader. Instead, we're perplexed and we just restart scanning the soft images of the layered waters and go over the image meaning, again and again without resolution.

This way of constructing a composition might have special value for us. We'd have to see more. I'd find this picture a great deal more demanding to repeat in some way. This would be some impressive exercise to be able to come up with as many siblings as Cem has, (with his simpler and even cleaner), slow shutter speed pictures.

Thanks for your analysis.

Cheers,
Bart

 

[Jerome Marot]

I haven't decided yet on the buoy in the background, whether to keep it, or (re)move it.

Keep it. Definitely. As Asher says, the element is essential, the whole composition leads the eye to it.

 

[Tracy Lebenzon]

Gorgeous work! I have GOT to get some ND filters!

Are NT filters sold in sets or ?? Any recommended manufacturers??

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Gorgeous work! I have GOT to get some ND filters!

Are NT filters sold in sets or ?? Any recommended manufacturers??

Hi Tracy,

These latest images were shot with a special filter from Lee, called "the Big Stopper", a 10 stop ND glass filter for use in their filter holder system. They are hard to get, due to low production volumes and high demand.

One of the special characteristics of that filter is that it has a more even spectral absorption from near-UV to IR wavelength. That's due to a metallic coating, unlike the dyes used in other filters which are transparent to IR light and which will desaturate all colors thus producing a more muddy brownish image tone. This Lee filter leaves a cool color temperature, so in Raw conversion one needs to dial in a much higher color temperature, and perhaps a bit of Magenta tint, but the color tonality is then quite good.

Cem's earlier shots were probably with a B+W 10 stop filter, which apparently has the IR transparency issue. With such longer exposures, and the Bayer CFA dye filters also transparent for IR, the desaturation builds up and is harder to remove by postprocessing.

Cheers,
Bart

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi Bart,

...Yes, that's why we posted the images in the same thread.

I think we both got what we set out to achieve, I went for a mix of compositional/suggested action and dream-like atmosphere, and I suppose Cem went for the same atmosphere with a bit more symmetry which enhances any asymmetry. The front legs of my tripod were submerged some of the time, it was incoming tide, so the sand plays a smaller role, and the distant buoy gains importance for the distance clues.

I agree with the others, that buoy should stay. I like the zigzag of the poles in your composition. As you said I went for another angle also because the tide was higher. The second set of poles were mostly submerged, only the tip of one of them is still visible in my picture.

Anyway, it was a pleasure shooting with you again and thanks for letting me have a go at the Lee Big Stopper.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

...Cem's earlier shots were probably with a B+W 10 stop filter, which apparently has the IR transparency issue. With such longer exposures, and the Bayer CFA dye filters also transparent for IR, the desaturation builds up and is harder to remove by postprocessing..

Absolutely true. My pictures from last year were much "warmer". Almost any color was drained from them, they looked like sepia tinted B&W prints. So it took some creative PP to bring them back to life again. Working with the Lee file was in comparison a walk in the park.

 

[Tracy Lebenzon]

Hi Tracy,

These latest images were shot with a special filter from Lee, called "the Big Stopper", a 10 stop ND glass filter for use in their filter holder system. They are hard to get, due to low production volumes and high demand.

One of the special characteristics of that filter is that it has a more even spectral absorption from near-UV to IR wavelength. That's due to a metallic coating, unlike the dyes used in other filters which are transparent to IR light and which will desaturate all colors thus producing a more muddy brownish image tone. This Lee filter leaves a cool color temperature, so in Raw conversion one needs to dial in a much higher color temperature, and perhaps a bit of Magenta tint, but the color tonality is then quite good.

Cem's earlier shots were probably with a B+W 10 stop filter, which apparently has the IR transparency issue. With such longer exposures, and the Bayer CFA dye filters also transparent for IR, the desaturation builds up and is harder to remove by postprocessing.

Cheers,
Bart

Thanks to you and Cem for the info!

You’re right those are difficult to find. After Mr. Google only found vendors with “on back order” listed, I called 2 big box stores and neither had any idea when they would have stock, nor was willing to place an order, so I called the vendor and the person i need to talk with was out. Hopefully he'll call back and i'll find out where to order one and the related parts. Hopefully I can at least get in line for one.

I've seen the results of a few others who said they used (and mentioned) this filter with results that were nothing short of spectacular, as are the cases above. I don't buy a lot of gear but am looking foreword to this addition to the tool kit.

Thanks also for the tip about the shift in color balance and how it differs from other, similar filters. The video on Lee’s web site made a similar advisory comment about the CB.

Also re the buoy, in an otherwise beautifully soft composition, the buoy stands out like a pimple on the center of someone’s nose. My eyes go straight to it and can’t escape. Were it mine, I’d soften the buoy for starters and maybe play with moving it around the composition a bit...but i'm not sure the position is really at issue. You’ve probably already done this, but just sayin’ …

 

[Mark Hampton]

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Cem,

try as i might i cannot find winter in this image

i think you are playing with titles again !

can you me a crop of just winter please !

ta

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Cem,

try as i might i cannot find winter in this image

i think you are playing with titles again !

can you me a crop of just winter please !

ta

Right you are. The winter was hiding somewhere in here:

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[Mark Hampton]

Right you are. The winter was hiding somewhere in here:

​

Cem,

thanks for clearing that up

i like winter - is the horizon squint ?

cheers

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

...i like winter - is the horizon squint ?

I guess so. My lens was completely blinded by this 10x stop filter, it had to squint real hard to see anything.

 

[Mark Hampton]

I guess so. My lens was completely blinded by this 10x stop filter, it had to squint real hard to see anything.

Cem,

why did you not just wait till night - its dark then - with a high powered light on a boat you could have done it without the lens squinting!

you dutchies - you kill old people, cant wait for night fall and use x10 filters from the usa. must be all the drugs in the water over there.

cheers