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  #1  
Old April 6th, 2007, 01:39 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Default Lies and Sensor Cleaning! Myth and wishful thinking exposed!

Well, the orther shoe had to drop!

I never really believed in sensor cleaning by the camera by having the chip wiggle itself clean! Well an interesting study has at least made me laugh a while!

Our friends at PixInfo have examined 4 chip self cleaning systems from Canon Eos-400D, Sony Alpha DSLR-A100, Olympus E-300 and the great new Pentax K10D and I quote

Dust removal conclusion
Here is our ranking according to effectiveness:

Olympus: good

Canon: poor (we are disappointed)

Pentax and Sony: useless (we are very disappointed)

If you are looking for a camera, have the dust removal as an expectation only at the end of your list. If sensor cleaning / dust removal is a must, the choices are limited to Olympus and Panasonic cameras.
We guess that theoretically it is possible to get better results with Canon cameras when the CMOS sensor is not charged, but Canon must find a way to discharge the sensor first (if this is is the problem). If the system is so unreliable, the EOS-ICS is not much more than a good marketing name.
In case of Sony, Pentax and Samsung cameras, the dust removal function should be considered as almost non-existent.
The final conclusion: keep your air blower handy, it is still your best tool against dust.


Is it hubris that we would come to this?

Amazed and disappointed that having got drunk on a mepapixel race, the marketing departments now piush sensor cleaning that appears, at least in this report, questionable?

Now one can argue that the folk here used the wrong dust! Certainly, the amount of dust used was more than I've ever experienced. Also a lot of crud comes from the inside of the camera not from a testing laboratory! All the parts that move, flake!

Well then there's dust everywhere, So what's new?

Who really thinks that their camera system works?

Asher

Last edited by Asher Kelman; April 6th, 2007 at 03:14 AM.
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  #2  
Old April 6th, 2007, 02:47 AM
Ray West Ray West is offline
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A prime example of the flawed test methods and inept conclusions drawn from the pseudo scientific crap on the www...... It only proves that the testers are ignorant.
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  #3  
Old April 6th, 2007, 04:27 AM
Mike Bailey Mike Bailey is offline
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Hmm, maybe that's why Canon includes the software part of dust removal in their solution? They're quite aware their system doesn't work very well? So much for magic. Technically, one would think it's possible to avoid sensor filter dust and Olympus sounds better at it. We can keep hoping while we also keep the other dust removal tools handy.

Mike
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  #4  
Old April 6th, 2007, 06:27 AM
John Sheehy John Sheehy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Who really thinks that their camera system works?
My 400D was very disappointing until I cleaned all of the grease off the sensor. Since I did that a few months ago, I haven't had any dust that survived a power cycle.

However, I have been warned that the anti-static coating on the 400D can be damaged by Eclipse or other solvents. I don't know how true this is.

I just checked the other day, f/29 against an unfocused white wall at +1 EC; I couldn't find any dust spots.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 08:45 AM
Edward Bussa Edward Bussa is offline
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The link you posted doesn't seem to go anywhere!

(sorry, couldn't resist! =)
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  #6  
Old April 6th, 2007, 10:41 AM
Ken Tanaka Ken Tanaka is offline
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Perhaps the digital camera manufacturers should look outside their immediate realm for a new solution.
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  #7  
Old April 6th, 2007, 11:05 AM
Chuck Fry Chuck Fry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sheehy View Post
However, I have been warned that the anti-static coating on the 400D can be damaged by Eclipse or other solvents. I don't know how true this is.
Apparently Photographic Solutions is now recommending E2 instead of Eclipse for more recent Canon DSLR sensor cleaning. Seems the original Eclipse could remove the tin oxide coating used on these cameras.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 02:47 PM
John Sheehy John Sheehy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Fry View Post
Apparently Photographic Solutions is now recommending E2 instead of Eclipse for more recent Canon DSLR sensor cleaning. Seems the original Eclipse could remove the tin oxide coating used on these cameras.
Thanks. I'll pick up a bottle when B&H reopens.
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  #9  
Old April 7th, 2007, 07:41 PM
Bob Krueger Bob Krueger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Fry View Post
Apparently Photographic Solutions is now recommending E2 instead of Eclipse for more recent Canon DSLR sensor cleaning. Seems the original Eclipse could remove the tin oxide coating used on these cameras.
Which camera bodies do they include in the category "More recent?"
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  #10  
Old April 8th, 2007, 02:21 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Krueger View Post
Which camera bodies do they include in the category "More recent?"
Just look at their camera list and look for the E2 recommended camera bodies. Some of them are not so recent, so it's all more about the composition of the coating elements than about the manufacturing date.

Bart
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  #11  
Old April 8th, 2007, 05:04 AM
Anthony Arkadia Anthony Arkadia is offline
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My concern always was, Were does all the dust and dirt go that it shakes of the sensor? My guess would be it just falls back into the housing, that's great now you get dirt in your VF.
Marketing at it's best i believe, when you really have no more major improvements with actual image quality, add a few more useless buttons and praise them. Send out your forum snakes and let them slither through the forums talking about how wonder full this is going to be, Oh PT Barnum taught the world well.
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  #12  
Old April 8th, 2007, 10:14 AM
Bob Krueger Bob Krueger is offline
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Thanks, Bart! Needless to say, I'm glad to see my 1DMkII on the Eclipse list, since that's what I've been cleaning it with for three years.
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  #13  
Old April 8th, 2007, 04:08 PM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Arkadia View Post
My concern always was, Were does all the dust and dirt go that it shakes of the sensor? My guess would be it just falls back into the housing, that's great now you get dirt in your VF.
All the dust and dirt? Don't know about your shooting environmental conditions, but I don't have much dust landing on the IR/AA-filter sandwich of my 1DsMk2. If part of that dust can be shaken off and caught by the adhesive strips around the sensor, it would be an improvement for me. My only worry would be about the 'fused' type of dirt (e.g. sticky pollen), and my brush not sticking to the strips ...

Besides, the chance of dust finding it's way back from the sensor array chamber to the mirror chamber seems logically smaller than the other way around (with the flapping mirror on the other side of the shutter and the charged sensor array).

Bart
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  #14  
Old April 8th, 2007, 10:32 PM
Paul Bestwick Paul Bestwick is offline
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A few years ago I was really concerned with the dust issue. I could care less now. I use an Artic Butterfly & that is very effective. If I see any dust on the image I Photoshop it. I have never used a liquid........I just know I would screw it up. There will be a perfect solution.......until then, who cares.

Cheers,

Paul
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  #15  
Old April 12th, 2007, 01:41 AM
Ralph Eisenberg Ralph Eisenberg is offline
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I agree with Paul. Visible Dust really offers a very effective, fast and easy to use solution (no affiliation). I used to go in to CPS regularly to have the dust removed from my 1Ds. Since the 1Ds2 has been out and I've been using the Sensor Brushes, it has literally not been necessary for me take my camera in for sensor cleaning. An appreciable saving in time and worry.
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