OPF ISSUE: "Still Photo" as an Incubator a for OPF! Benefits & Hazards.

[Tim Armes]

I've collected all the relevant posts on this topic from various threads. THe new forum Still Photo has attracted a good response with new posts and vibrant discussions. Still the surprise arrival of the forum has caused some concern. So I have assembled all the opinions and worries. All the individual ideas have been received for our balancing of our way forward. I've had extensive conversations with most of those who had questions and as of now we have excellent support for this new forum as a test bed for new ideas. Sometimes a post has simply been deleted when it was repeated in whole by some response . Asher

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

This new Still Photo forum is intended to take the idea behind "Small Sensor Cameras" one step further. Not only is it brand agnostic, it is also format agnostic. The core of the forum will be the pictures we're making, or that we want to make, using whatever cameras and lenses might suit that purpose. In order to freely discuss photography here, I needed to throw the net that wide. So any picture, any camera, any lens, etc. can and may be discussed here.

Hi,

I'm completely confused by the purpose of this forum. There are already lots of fora here devoted to discussing images. We have forums for still life, portraits, sport, etc. We also have gear related forums.

Now we have a forum for discussing any image or any piece of gear whatsoever. What we lose is OPF's orthagonality - that is, we no long know where to post.

I feel that a clearer statement of distinction is needed. It should be clear as to when this forum is the approriate one to use; suggesting that practially anything goes is non-sensical to my mind.

A forum for discussing the RR articles is fine - a new forum for discussing all-and-sundry is, in my opinion, a very strange decision.

Tim

[Tim Ashley]

Originally Posted by Tim Armes

Hi,

I'm completely confused by the purpose of this forum. There are already lots of fora here devoted to discussing images. We have forums for still life, portraits, sport, etc. We also have gear related forums.

Now we have a forum for discussing any image or any piece of gear whatsoever. What we lose is OPF's orthagonality - that is, we no long know where to post.

I feel that a clearer statement of distinction is needed. It should be clear as to when this forum is the approriate one to use; suggesting that practially anything goes is non-sensical to my mind.

A forum for discussing the RR articles is fine - a new forum for discussing all-and-sundry is, in my opinion, a very strange decision.

Tim

As a newbie here and yet to earn my stripes, I humbly disagree: in the past four years I have moved from the Kodak SLRn forum to the Leica M8 forum to various large format, Sigma, Ricoh and Canon fora. I have often gained new friends along the way but have also often lost old ones who have made different choices of gear.

I have been barked out of various gear fora for posting images; asked to post post-processing or printing questions elsewhere and generally 'rounded up and pointed in the 'right' direction'.

What I personally would like, and I know a lot of other people agree, is less of the 'orthagonal'. For me ( and Tim I really really do respect your POV) what would be great would be one forum in which we could discuss any and every camera, lens, emulsion, scanner, printer, paper, software. One place into which we might attempt the impossible task of herding too many cats but in which we might find the benefits of a viewpoint which can develop without being constantly split by the prism of sensible organisation.

A place to discuss the photo; how it is seen, captured, processed and presented and, more importantly, what it means and achieves.

That's what I had hoped from Still Photo but I am seeing a lot of varying mileages already.

Respectfully yours

Tim

[Asher Kelman]

Tim Armes in questioning an apparent unstructured discussion and Tim Ashley looking at integration of more "parts" of the process are paradoxically both correct.

The purpose of "Still Photo" is to act as a welcoming place for arriving RR members as long as they wish to arrive and need this space. This is where they acknowledge their own kinship, so to speak and express their thoughts on RR issues that they wonder about or that they just want to discuss.

Meanwhile they will wander to other parts of OPF, participate and start new threads anywhere appropriate. When any thread gains traction and is obviously supposed to be say in "Street Photography, Photojournalism and Documentary Forum" or Portrait, for example, the thread will be moved their. So this is a way is the incubator for a thread that people are not sure where it will be and I will eventually relocate it as it becomes defined.

Now in Layback Café we can have any discussion too and even post pictures that are just for fun and no other purpose or a joke! Still, someone might post how to fix something or any other weird topic. What we do is move things! We also split threads, either just lop of a daughter topic that needs to stand on its own to clear the way fro the original subject to be continued or else duplicated as needed to start the new thread.

So we are perhaps like the beavers, constantly at work visible and invisible restructuring OPF to make logical and consistent.

The main thing here is to allow RR members to come to that's so hospitable that the will then get to work in the rest of OPF as just as everyone else.

I hope that makes sense.

Asher

[Cem_Usakligil]

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

...The purpose of "Still Photo" is to act as a welcoming place for arriving RR members as long as they wish to arrive and need this space. This is where they acknowledge their own kinship, so to speak and express their thoughts on RR issues that they wonder about or that they just want to discuss.

Meanwhile they will wander to other parts of OPF, participate and start new threads anywhere appropriate. When any thread gains traction and is obviously supposed to be say in "Street Photography, Photojournalism and Documentary Forum" or Portrait, for example, the thread will be moved their. So this is a way is the incubator for a thread that people are not sure where it will be and I will eventually relocate it as it becomes defined.

Now in Layback Café we can have any discussion too and even post pictures that are just for fun and no other purpose or a joke! Still, someone might post how to fix something or any other weird topic. What we do is move things! We also split threads, either just lop of a daughter topic that needs to stand on its own to clear the way fro the original subject to be continued or else duplicated as needed to start the new thread.

So we are perhaps like the beavers, constantly at work visible and invisible restructuring OPF to make logical and consistent.

The main thing here is to allow RR members to come to that's so hospitable that the will then get to work in the rest of OPF as just as everyone else.

I hope that makes sense...

Hi Asher,

Assuming I understand you correctly, it might indeed make sense. However, allow me to be blunt and summarize what I've understood so far:

1) "Still Photo" is an area within OPF wherein different rules apply in order to make it fulfill its purpose of existence. It is mainly there for the RR members. If other OPF'ers go in there, they should behave according to the rules of conduct and standards set by Sean. PS: I know that you'll disagree with this statement but let's face it. How else can the "Still Photo" achieve it's objective?

2) The rest of OPF is still what it is. If RR members venture out there, they must follow the rules and standards set by Asher.

[Asher Kelman]

Originally Posted by Cem Usakligil

Hi Asher,

Assuming I understand you correctly, it might indeed make sense. However, allow me to be blunt and summarize what I've understood so far:

1) "Still Photo" is an area within OPF wherein different rules apply in order to make it fulfill its purpose of existence. It is mainly there for the RR members. If other OPF'ers go in there, they should behave according to the rules of conduct and standards set by Sean. PS: I know that you'll disagree with this statement but let's face it. How else can the "Still Photo" achieve it's objective?

2) The rest of OPF is still what it is. If RR members venture out there, they must follow the rules and standards set by Asher.

Is this a correct summary?

Cem,

Not at all! All forums have the same rules. However some threads may start in one forum and end up being moved. I have enough skill to both nurture and be able to see when a topic belongs in a more appropriate place. We do that now with Layback Cafe and all other places here.

Originally Posted by Cem Usakligil

If so, then how do you see these two forum integrating in the long run? ..................


Both evolve into something better and bigger than their individual parts...................

My hopes are on the last one, needless to say. Now how do we achieve it?

Cem you have hit the nail on the head. Each time we incorporate another style or purpose of photography then we want to accommodate these peculiarities. For the Medium Format growth, we added ongoing diaries of the principal backs. That was an 18 month ongoing effort on both sides of the Atlantic to make a reality. Now we are seeing the fruit of this with the Synar H6 threads, video's of use of the camera and a sense of all the lenses that are available and what the camera might offer that's unique and what it cannot do.

Here with our hospitality to RR, we have opened up an easy and comfortable path and entrance hall for RR photographers their profile is impressive:

Originally Posted by Sean Reid

...."several thousand people, some famous photographers and some not. Some are professional photographers and some are serious amateurs. Some run major camera and lens companies and some have been written about in major texts on the history of photography. Some head the photo departments of leading newspapers and some own prestigious galleries. Some have influenced large format photography in ways that most can only dream of."

So we are fortunate to have such talented photographers to OPF and that's great. For them, we are open, have depth and breadth and an easy to follow structure that invites exploration. We are open to new ideas and love to discuss everything.

We hope to make everyone welcome, enjoy being here and get real benefit to their own needs in photography. Above all we want to open horizons to different ways of seeing things.

So can we do it? That's my responsibility to make it work and I am confident I have your support. We'll see evolution and will keep it going as long as it is useful and people get a benefit. Simple as that!

Right now I'm happy.

Asher

[Cem_Usakligil]

Originally Posted by Maggie Osterberg

..Maybe I should shut up, since it seems that my posts and photos are an interruption and unwelcome in this thread.

Hi Maggie,

Who said so? Let me assure you that this is absolutely not true. Like Scott, haven't I also shown you my cats' pictures? Would I do that if I thought you were unwelcome and an interruption? Even Ray joined in with his dog's picture!

Please do not take this discussion personally. We are all trying to find our ways around here. The small discussion I have just had with Asher is not a knock-down-drag-out fight over forum standards. It is just an exchange of ideas and an exploration of how we should evolve. Maybe you are right in saying that it does not belong in this particular thread. I apologise for that. I'll kindly ask Asher to move those parts into another thread.

Please bear with us, we are very glad to have you (all) on board.

[Ron Morse]

Still Photo Here ReidReviews.com subscribers are especially welcomed. So although Still Photo is not connected to the Reid Reviews site, the feeling is, we hope, sustained. We'll explore the process and tools in photography as a visual art, but the focus is on the picture we want to make, more than the tools. Any picture, camera, lens or genre might be involved. This is meant to be a haven for serious photographers, professional or amateur, where people communicate respectfully. Some of the topics may arise from articles on Reid Reviews while many others will not. However this is open to all.

I did not see this before I posted. Had I seen it I would not have posted.

[Asher Kelman]

Ron,

Sorry you have that impression! Let me reread the syntax carefully and I'll write to you by PM!
Of course this part of OPF is absolutely yours too!

Asher

[John_Nevill]

Being open about it, I have to agree with Tim Armes.

I feel the new forum is becoming a catch all with an RR banner which will ultimately dilute posts elsewhere. Examples of discussion duplication are already appearing.

By all mean use the new forum to bring in new membership and discuss RR content, but let us not loose sight of the other fora.

[Asher Kelman]

Originally Posted by John_Nevill

Being open about it, I have to agree with Tim Armes.

I feel the new forum is becoming a catch all with an RR banner which will ultimately dilute posts elsewhere. Examples of discussion duplication are already appearing.

By all mean use the new forum to bring in new membership and discuss RR content, but let us not loose sight of the other fora.

Hi John,

This will join it's brethren in the thread where it belongs! Briefly, OPF has never had an open incubator idea before. When any thread gets traction, the appropriate moderator simply moves it to the forum as one would expect. So this is really the best of both worlds. This is a work in progress. We'll learn from it.

Asher

Give opinions and suggestions by PM.

When threads are moved, a forwarding notice will be left in the first post!

[Asher Kelman]

Thanks everyone for the open attitude in letting us know your honest impressions. To newly arrived forum members, it may be confusing as to the apparent "all over the place opinions" on having something new and strange.

In OPF we welcome discussion. Although we run the forum we do like feedback so we can keep on track and do a better job.

Only remember to put questions of "How the forum works" in so as not to interrupt a perfectly lively discussion elsewhere for your pressing comment. I have taken the time to fully explore all the feedback privately depth and have great encouragement, advice and some novel ideas from everyone here. We'll set up a new system for dealing with your questions on OPF structure and function. All the resolved discussions will be summarized in FAQ. Meanwhile we'll store all the arguments that led to that summary but not delete anything. So "OPF look at Feel" should function as center for ideas and problems. That way we constantly are open to new ideas or corrections but it at no loss to the continuity of threads. Like a service center, when a ticket is resolved, we'll incorporated anything worthwhile and that topic is closed but summarized for reference. The actual threads are stored.

The "Still Photo Forum" is an evolving work in progress. Use it freely to discuss any photographic subject. This is for everyone. It's already working and it's a freeform way of getting topics going. But moderators will be taking them to the correct place in OPF as the topics mature.

Thanks for you support in this experiment. Feel free to PM me on any new ideas.

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

We've hear the worries. These are not pushed aside.

Right now any good experiences to note?

New members and longer time OPFrs, what do you think now?