The current best carry everywhere camera?

You DO realize that those "Panasonic" images are 3D solid geometry digital models NOT a real camera prototype, don't you Leonardo?

It would be nice to see micro four-thirds turn in to something but I wouldn't bet on it any time soon, if at all.

Isn't the Lumix DMC-G1 "something?"

Nill

In response to the title of this thread:

I have yet to see any camera beat the fuji GA645ZI Medium format point and shoot. It is a 120 and 220 film camera. It has every thing as auto if needed. It imprints shooting data on the film outside of the frame area. It auto detects film type (ISO and 120/220). It has a auto winder. It has auto exposure as well as aperture priority and manual. It has passive as well as active focus (it will focus in total darkness!). It has a motorized zoom lens. It has a popup flash and a hot shoe for external flash.

I may have missed a few features but you get the idea!

Nill Toulme said:

Isn't the Lumix DMC-G1 "something?"

Nill

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Yes, Nill, that camera exists.

But the heart of the issue I posed in the last part of my note is whether or not the small consortium involved with micro four-thirds will really produce anything really new with it. The four-thirds stuff so far has been entirely undistinguished in both performance and design. Neither Panasonic nor Olympus have track records of developing innovative or distinctive digital photo products. If this more compact sensor design carries on this trdition who will really consider it "something"?

I think that Four Thirds is innovative and distinctive, MICRO Four Thirds is innovative and distinctive, and it exists as a standard G1 is innovative and distinctive.

I think that, contrary to what you stated, Olympus has a history of innovative thinking, just remember the PEN half frame system, the OM miniaturization of the SLR and the first 2 an 4 MP digital cameras.

Japanese companies think in long term strategies, so this cameras are coming and the fact that the G1 is out there proves that all the components are there ready.

Panasonic is not a small company and the LUMIX brand has come from zero to having one of the strongest following in the compact market. I have had several Olympus and a LUMIX and I think that they are very good brands.

If they produce any of those models it will be absolutely innovative and distinctive, they will have a large sensor compared to cameras their size, interchangeable compact lenses and live view capabilities. Also it will be an open system with many companies possibly contributing lenses like it is in Four Thirds.

A similar system can be emulated by Nikon or Canon with full size 35mm sensor or even with larger ones like Medium Format with the advantages of live view, reduced body and lenses size and improved quality due to non-retro focus design in the optic.

The only thing stopping all of this from happening is technology performance, and PANASONIC and Oly are proving that they have this technology and that it works ...

Ken Tanaka said:

Yes, Nill, that camera exists.

But the heart of the issue I posed in the last part of my note is whether or not the small consortium involved with micro four-thirds will really produce anything really new with it. The four-thirds stuff so far has been entirely undistinguished in both performance and design. Neither Panasonic nor Olympus have track records of developing innovative or distinctive digital photo products. If this more compact sensor design carries on this trdition who will really consider it "something"?

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Depends who you ask .. and time will tell if micro Four Thirds will become a succes in sales and in appreciation as an alternative for the more serious photographer.

In micro Four Thirds, the dslr without the mirror asssembly but with electronic viewfinder, it is possible to create significantly smaller camera's with interchangeable lenses. The first one on the market is rather large, the Panasonic G1, but the image quality seems to be outperforming the Olympus E-3. Discussion in the Olympus/Panasonic corner is if all camera's in micro Four Thirds and (full) Four Thirds will share the same sensor. And we don't know so far.

The Olympus camera Leonardo put up is a mock up of something that may be expected at comming PMA. And this, back to the subject of the tread, could be a higly portable, take anywhere camera. Slim, unobtrusive with a bright(ish) 25mm (or 50mm in 35mm equivalent) f1.7 lens. With a 5x larger sensor surface area then a G10. Or a DP-1 with interchangeable lenses, etc. Innovative products for sure .. but also in the Oly/Panny camp a lot of user-request remain for a true small rangefinder, a digital Pen-F..

And as far as the:

entirely undistinguished in both performance and design. Neither Panasonic nor Olympus have track records of developing innovative or distinctive digital photo products

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There are not a few Olympus firsts out there (the supersonic wave filter cleaning the sensor took over three years before the others jumped on the bandwagon) and remember the amont of credit Olympus and Panasonic received for their innovative camera designs respective Olympus E-300 and Lumix L-1 ..

Martin

Last spring, in preparation for a specific event, I was looking for a small, light camera that offered higher performance than my Canon G9 and greater flexibility than my Leica M8. Olympus had just announced the (four-thirds) E-420, "the world's smallest, lightest DSLR". It seemed like my wish was granted. So despite not having any Oly products I grabbed an E-420 and a few lenses (including that cute 25mm pancake lens).

True to its claims, the Oly E-420 was the smallest dslr I had ever seen. I casually shot with it for a couple of weeks to get the hang of an Oly. It had a very nice feel and some interesting control navigation features. But when the event arrived the camera completely failed to keep pace with the relatively modest action. Shot-to-shot cycle times in RAW mode were so horrible that I soon bagged the E-420 and used my Canon G9 (which doesn't exactly have terrific shot-to-shot times either) for the rest of the coverage. What about the E-420's image quality? Yawn...about the same as my Canon G9, frankly, making allowances for format differences. The (Panasonic) usual noisy darks above ISO 200.

So, body aside, if the E-420's imaging represents a sampling of what Oly and Panny have in mind for the four-thirds system (macro, micro, or nano) I don't see much future for it. I would very much like to see "micro four-thirds", or whatever, spawn a new camera format. But given the nearly complete implosion of the world's capital markets I don't see (a) the liberally available capital to develop and market such consumer electronics, and (b) consumers' interest or ability to buy into such products any time soon. By the time things improve I suspect Canon and Nikon will be at the ready with at least one new camera system.

"The first one on the market is rather large, the Panasonic G1, but the image quality seems to be outperforming the Olympus E-3"

I think that the size reduction is "important" even with the G1

IQ may improve since non-retro focus optics are cleaner and leaner than "regular" lens prescription.

Elimination of reflex mechanism will eventually happen since it is a complex bulky mechanical machinery full of moving parts as opposed to a solid state electronic viewfinder.

In time it may also be cheaper to manufacture, so people will buy something that is cheaper smaller regardless of the state of the world bank system's health..

Ken Tanaka said:

<...> But given the nearly complete implosion of the world's capital markets I don't see (a) the liberally available capital to develop and market such consumer electronics, and (b) consumers' interest or ability to buy into such products any time soon. By the time things improve I suspect Canon and Nikon will be at the ready with at least one new camera system.

Click to expand...

Pursuant to my earlier remarks, this statement is in today's Wall Street Journal:

"TOKYO -- Canon Inc. reported a 21% drop in net profit for the third quarter and lowered its profit outlook for the full year, revealing its deep pessimism about a stronger yen and the mounting problems from the global economic turmoil.

Tokyo-based Canon, which makes a wide range of precision electronics equipment, reported net profit of 83.04 billion yen ($877.8 million) in the quarter, compared with 105.30 billion yen a year earlier.

The company lowered its outlook for the full year to 375 billion yen, about 20% below the 500 billion yen profit it called for in its outlook in July. The revised figure represents a 23% decline from the previous year.

It is also slowing new investment by slashing its capital outlays outlook by 5% for the full fiscal year.

The news came after electronics and entertainment giant Sony Corp. last week gouged nearly 40% off its earnings outlook for the fiscal year through March, amid the yen's rapid rise."

So if Canon's in this position you can bet that Panasonic is, too.

If you are a subscriber you can read the full announcement at: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122512892009572649.html

Still the best?

I've a question on behalf of someone who wants a tiny camera with magnificant image quality so he can ease both his back and his sensibilities with one fell swoop. I naturally thought of this thread, even though it's been inactive for such a long time.

So, would the Sony w300 still be the best candidate for him at this time? Has the Ricoh GRD3 improved enough on the GRD2 that it would edge the Sony out? How about the D-lux 4 or Sigma DP1/2? Any of the more stylish Sonys?

He appreciates primes but could be happy with a moderate zoom. He'd like some lowlight capability, but seldom uses flash at all. He's got a Panasonic LC1 and loves it but would like something approaching its capabilities in something close to a third of its bulk and weight. He's used to RAW but has begun to try jpegs with the LC1 in order to speed up its shot to shot time and likes a few of them, so is open to a good jpeg only camera like this one.

That's about all I can think of. Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers,

Thomas Turnbull

Canon S90 should be considered.

Nill

Still the best?

Thanks, Nill — I'd forgotten about that one and will mention it. RAW and the zoom range should be plusses for him.

Thanks, too, for your surprisingly swift response!

Cheers,

Thomas

Nill Toulme said:

Canon S90 should be considered.

Nill

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I'd also give the Canon s90 good points. Its slim but big enough for adult male hands and has a first class pedigree from the s-and G- series of digicams that have shared the same sensors and electronics. My lost S-70 was a perfect street camera until it just stopped working. I upgrade to a G10 and shortly will go to the S-90 or to the G-11 to have the benefit of flash shoe and therefore control of banks of Canon speedlights, if I so desire. However, the S-90 is likely the best bet as I've never seen anyone actually use the flash shoe of the G10!

Asher

Supporters of s90 are in good company...KR thinks it is the best thing since the 'full raw' m7!

Regards.