Challenge: the Bird picture as art!

Don Cohen · Dec 28, 2006

Hi Steve,

To my eye, both of these clearly fall into the "art" category, definitely going beyond the mere display of a bird's features. Love both of them.

Steve Fines said:
First is a double breasted cormorant silohouetted against a sunset sky.

Given the dark body of the cormorant, it's hard for me to tell for sure if it's wearing its "double breasted" suit!

))

Seriously, though, I made the same exact mistake when posting a cormorant image at another nature photography forum, calling it 'double-breasted' rather than 'double-crested'!!!

Winston Rockwell · Dec 28, 2006

Ivan Garcia said:
Chapeau!!!

i don't believe i've ever heard the French word for "hat" used as a congratulatory expression...

i agree, however, these are wonderful photos, and definitely fall into the category of "art" in my mind... well done, Steve!

nicolas claris · Dec 28, 2006

Hi Winston
I can assure you that "chapeau" is one of the French expression to applaud for something execptionnal.
Translation could be 'hat down" like a salute…
In this particular case, chapeau is really the right term to use!

Winston Rockwell · Dec 28, 2006

you mean, sort of like "my hat's off to you"? in that case it makes sense...

nicolas claris · Dec 28, 2006

Winston Rockwell said:
you mean, sort of like "my hat's off to you"? in that case it makes sense...

I think you're correct!

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/take_one%27s_hat_off

Angela Weil · Dec 28, 2006

Birds....

Steve,
both images are executed in the perfectionism I would expect of a wildlife expert such as you. Surly, there is a market for this type of pictures.
However, they are too sweet for my taste. I'm not above that - certainly not and I'm clearly no expert in this field at all - but I do struggle with that issue, since I love to do pictures of animals and I keep fighting against this sugary thing - or against the 'this is the perfect shot of this particular species thing' that fills up pages after pages of photo sites.
Of your pictures, I prefer the fox and the polar bear, because they are straight but extremely good images. The polar bear even more so, because there is some hint of personality - the bear is alive.
The two birds don't show that - they are perfect but somehow only their decorative quality is what's left of them.
My sister in law (an illustrator, specializing in naturalistic drawings of animals) does that a lot for clients without leaving her desk and we discuss that issue a lot.

Please don't misunderstand: I'm new here, I don't know most of the participants, don't want to step on any ones toes but I'm seriously interested in this topic. What turns a picture of an animal into art?

Nick Brandt's images of African wildlife just commanded up to 15.000 Euro a print at the Paris photo-show this fall. Because they are so decorative, as one comment read in an art magazine in Germany (http://www.nickbrandt.com/). He and Frans Lanting (http://www.lanting.com/) are the best wildlife photographers that I know of - not because they make money, but because they get to the bottom of things. Or Yann Arthus Bertrand (http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com), less wildlife but a lot of animal - look for the portraits of farm animals and their owners.

Angela

Ivan Garcia · Dec 29, 2006

Hi Angela
Although a very good analysis of the pictures, this thread was created to find out what separates a bird picture, from art, and when does that picture become Art.
Steve has (IMHO) achieved that aim.
I agree, the only thing left on Steve’s bird, is the decorative value of the animal, devoid of all personality, but, isn’t art’s purpose decoration?
I love most of the pictures in this thread, however none of them were good enough to hung on a gallery wall, they are more suited to wildlife magazines, Steve’s pictures changed that; not only worthy of a place in any gallery, I would, without hesitation, hung that pelican in a very prominent part of my house.
Once again
“Bravo” Steve

Marian Howell · Dec 29, 2006

Ivan Garcia said:
Although a very good analysis of the pictures, this thread was created to find out what separates a bird picture, from art, and when does that picture become Art.
Steve has (IMHO) achieved that aim.

Click to expand...

i agree that steve's 2 submissions have crossed totally into art! quite the beautiful images! they are *definately* not "just bird pictures" ))

I agree, the only thing left on Steve’s bird, is the decorative value of the animal, devoid of all personality, but, isn’t art’s purpose decoration?

Click to expand...

i disagree strongly here ivan. earlier in the thread we talked about the image evoking a response in the viewer, and for me that means far more than decoration! that is part of it, to be sure, but i find myself looking in that pelican's eye and to the cormorant's arched neck, and they suggest emotions to me. the fact that you would hang these in your home suggests these birds are *not* devoid of personality to you either i do see what angela is reacting to as far as they're being "too sweet" for her - for my personal taste they are "too pretty", especially the pelican because it floats in the background, rather like an illustration and not a photo. i would hang your lovely duck photo on my wall instead ) but that is just my personal preference!
however, for me, both yours and steve's photos are art, and that's what makes this thread (and art) so fascinating and thought-provoking.

Ivan Garcia · Dec 29, 2006

Marian Howell said:
. (snip) i would hang your lovely duck photo on my wall instead ) but that is just my personal preference! (snip)

Hi Marian
What a sweet thing to say, I am flattered...
If you were my daughter I will be asking you, what is it that you want?

No seriously, I am truly touched that you would choose my Duck over Steve’s wonderful pelican.
Now, when is your birthday? flowers will be on the way

Ray West · Dec 30, 2006

Chicken Headed Lilly

Best Wishes,

Ray

ps - in case you need to know, the cs2 screen shot is here http://www.yertiz.com/images/Clipboard01.jpg (head copied, then rotated/distorted to sort of line up with petals, stamen copied into top layer, bit of brush work, saved as tif, colour balance. resized and jpeg in Irfanview.)

Steve Fines · Dec 31, 2006

Ray - now that is a bird as art! I didn't get it at first - gave me a chuckle when I did.

Ivan - thanks for the positive comments.

Marian & Angela - these are "pretty" photos of birds. Maybe better suited for postcards. However, at the same time, esp. with the pelican, I was so happy to be able to isolate it with the background colors and foreground fog (which is just out of focus dirt btw - not ps work)

Art certainly is in the eye of the beholder.

Fun comments to read - makes for a pleasant discussion.

Andreas Kanon · Jan 7, 2007

I saw this dipper sleeping on the ice while i was driving home.
So i went home and got my camera and drove back.
The light was very low so i laid myself flat on the ice and managed to scoop up enough snow so i could lay down my camera and set it on self timer.

The top layer of the ice was so see through that the dipper seems to float in midair which i didn't see until i came home.

Asher Kelman · Jan 7, 2007

Hi Andreas,

You are enterprising! Are those the colors you got?

Do you have a picture with a beak on the birds head?

Also how does the bird sleep standing up?

Asher

Andreas Kanon · Jan 7, 2007

Yes those are the colors due to the low light and snow.
The Dipper can on occasion sleep in sessions of a few seconds and then wake up and then fall back asleep.
Much like a very quick powernap.

Angela Weil · Jan 7, 2007

Birds...

Andreas, I like this one very much. Particularily, how he his almost hovering over the ice. Nice shot.
Greetings
Angela

Steve Fines · Jan 8, 2007

Hello,

Andreas - I like the colors, hovering and light. Really wish we could see an eye, beak or part of the face.

Good story to go with the shot.

Joel Slack · Jan 8, 2007

I imagine the bird facing away from the photographer, looking off into the distance, lost in whatever thoughts birds think while standing on ice in the cold twilight.

Marian Howell · Jan 8, 2007

great shot!! i love the tonality of it...although having the beak in the silhouette would make it more identifiable. this definately creates an emotional response in the viewer though, and is not a "species" shot

nice work and thought to get the shot!

Andreas Kanon · Feb 13, 2007

Seems my cleaning on the website messed up some of my linked photos, sorry about that.

Here is the Dipper photo i had previously posted.

Ring Billed Gulls in morning sun

Male Bearded Tit in silhouette.

Asher Kelman · Feb 14, 2007

Hi Andreas,

Your nature pictures on your gallery are photorealistic and Audubon would have thrown away all his crayons had he chanced on them!

Here, you have taken a new road. You are using interesting toning of the images. The usbjects and compositions are very informal and you are experimenting with post processing tachnics.

Now could you say something about your chopice of tones and do the 3 pictures here represent some unity or it just so happens that when you chose the iamges from all your work, these happen to be the tones they are?

I ask this since you obviously have moved away from total realism. However, you have no explanations beyond the titles, ie other than taxonomy. So we do not know about the ideas you have for these images as artist photos. I say that, since it appears to me that art is your intent, not just taxonomy.

Asher

Andreas Kanon · Feb 14, 2007

Thanks Asher,

The reason for picking the color tones I think is just my personal taste I guess.
Dark tones and morning gold tones just hits an artistic nerve with me

The Dipper was taken with
Nikon D70
Sigma 120-300 f2.8
Sigma 2x teleconverter
ISO640
f5.6
+2/3EV
1/30

Full frame and no editing, basically straight out of the camera.

The Ring Billed Gulls in morning light.
Canon 1DMark2N
Canon EF600l f4 IS
Canon 1.4 Teleconverter
ISO500
f11
1/800

Cropped for composition and increased contrast by 11 in PS, that is it.

The Male Bearded Tit in silhouette.
Nikon D70
Sigma 120-300 f2.8
Sigma 2x teleconverter
ISO640
f6.3
1/800

Cropped slightly for composition and increased contrast slightly.

So I do very little post processing to my photos and do more work with trying to find the light conditions that I want for my artistic photos.

Hope that answers your question Asher.

Asher Kelman · Feb 14, 2007

Maybe the picture might be posted as one JPG with the 3 images placed in a composite Pano so the three colors would work off each other. Scrolling down, the color change breaks the mood for me as an artist mood.

Just a thought.

I wan't concerned with the photographic details so mkuch as your thoughts about your pictures.

Thanks again for sharing. I must once more commend you on your wonderful real life and detailed birsing pictures on your website. That was a thrill.

Asher

Asher Kelman · Feb 14, 2007

Let me say again, I realy am impressed with all your bird pictures on your own website. Anyone who loves birds and who enjoys great pictures should visit!

Asher

Georg R. Baumann · Apr 20, 2007

The Guardian

This title was on my mind when I saw the picture a thome.

Dawid Loubser · May 1, 2007

Wow, there are some impressive images posted here. I am not a bird photographer, but let me contribute

Kwikstert

A small Cape Wagtail at dawn. Why I posted this image, was because of the intimacy: I spent a lot of time watching this small bird forage next to a dam, letting him come closer and closer to me. I wanted to capture him in his fluffy innocence, whilst (through as much detail as my equipment allowed to me to) exposing his true self, flaws and all - similar to how we would want to take advantage of the flaws an wrinkles in an characterful old person. I may have gone a bit extreme in terms of shallow DOF, but I wanted to isolate him, and in the same time create an almost typical bird shot, but yet somewhat different. Because of the light and the intimacy, especially as this is a very small (15cm) bird.

Swiftly Framed

This one of three swifts. It would take extraordinary circumstances to see this is "art" methinks, but such circumstances probably exist... maybe.

The first on takes me back to a special solitary moment with another small life form that we share our city with, and that's actually all that matters to me... Since a common definition of art is some external object that causes an emotional response within us, I might classify that first one as "internal art".

Arun Gaur · Feb 1, 2010

Marian
First one. Very nice surroundings.
Arun Gaur
http://tripolia-indianlandscapeimages.com

Rachel Foster · Feb 1, 2010

I missed this thread before. I have posted this image before but I think it bears another viewing for the message.

Rachel Ann Foster: Heron

Asher Kelman · Feb 1, 2010

Rachel Foster said:
I missed this thread before. I have posted this image before but I think it bears another viewing for the message.

Rachel Ann Foster: Heron

The message, Rachel is inherent in all pictures of nature. It's very cruel and we're a small part of it. Have you seen what this will do to a bunny rabbit or pigeons in the park? This is actually a dinosaur, beautiful as it may be, one of the most voracious hunters of the wild. The fact that it generally swallows its prey whole and looks sleek and handsome does not really change it's status.

The fishing line? One of the hazards of man, the hunter, like Heron the hunter. This is not a matter of morality, rather it's one of getting out of our delusional bubble. We are really just like the heron, but on a far bigger scale and are in fact dangerous to the entire planet! I don't think that the heron is as delusional about it's place in the order of things!

Asher

Rachel Foster · Feb 1, 2010

True, but exercising care is always a good thing, I think. I suspect that might have been the result of carelessness rather than "collateral damage."

Challenge: the Bird picture as art!

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