Iminent threat to democracy averted - Whew!

At the urging of our governor, who actually described the matter as emergency legislation, the Texas Legislature has passed a bill that requires everyone who votes in an election in Texas to show a state or federal government-issued photographic identification instrument (even if they have in hand their voter registration certificate). (A student ID card, even from a State institution, will not suffice.)

The measure is meant to preclude people not registered to vote from fraudulently casting a vote in another's place, even if they have gone to the trouble of stealing that person's certificate.

Now don't y'all laugh, now, ya hear - there was in fact once a case of an alleged such occurrence. (Nobody seems to be able to reconstruct it, exactly.)

Carla and I are betting that if we present our passports at the next election, the election clerk won't recognize what they are.

I'm proud to be an American Citizen, and its very handy to live in Texas.

Best regards,

Doug

Doug Kerr said:

At the urging of our governor, who actually described the matter as emergency legislation, the Texas Legislature has passed a bill that requires everyone who votes in an election in Texas to show a state or federal government-issued photographic identification instrument (even if they have in hand their voter registration certificate). (A student ID card, even from a State institution, will not suffice.)

The measure is meant to preclude people not registered to vote from fraudulently casting a vote in another's place, even if they have gone to the trouble of stealing that person's certificate.

Now don't y'all laugh, now, ya hear - there was in fact once a case of an alleged such occurrence. (Nobody seems to be able to reconstruct it, exactly.)

Carla and I are betting that if we present our passports at the next election, the election clerk won't recognize what they are.

I'm proud to be an American Citizen, and its very handy to live in Texas.

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

Isn't it simpler to say "No students, blacks, hispanics, Muslims or Catholics can vote?" Furthermore, let me share with you that anyone who lives with their parents after returning from college or believes Christopher Columbus was at best, delusional that he "discovered America", obviously cannot be trusted to vote either!

Folk that even sat next to someone who wanted to amend the US Constitution to enable Arnold Schwarzeneggerr to be able to run for President, obviously should be exempt from these restrictions too as they have vision!

Asher

Doug Kerr said:

Carla and I are betting that if we present our passports at the next election, the election clerk won't recognize what they are.

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This is puzzling. Why wouldn't they recognize your passports?

BTW: I have had to present official i.d. at all French elections for as long as I have been voting, and my parents did the same before me. A passport was always recognized.

Jerome Marot said:

This is puzzling. Why wouldn't they recognize your passports?

BTW: I have had to present official i.d. at all French elections for as long as I have been voting, and my parents did the same before me. A passport was always recognized.

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Jerome, I asked about this.

Hamza, my grandson, born and bred in Texas. Sits tall and straight in his saddle.

A passport has many pages. Some with foreign writings. Takes time to read.

The Great State of Texas needs a simple document. Easily to figure out who is who.

If a male wearing wearing skirts came to vote carrying a passport, claiming he/she was a Texan..

what would you do?


p.s thats why I space my sentences too! To avoid confusion.

Jerome Marot said:

This is puzzling. Why wouldn't they recognize your passports?

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Hi Jerome,

As hard as it is to understand for most Europeans, many Americans do not have a passport since they never traveled outside their country. Even inside Europe (since the Schengen Agreement), the need for a passport is no longer there, an official identity card (or drivers licence in case of local affairs) often suffices.

Cheers,
Bart

You're all missing the point. Just how much money will it cost to get one of these ID's? I'll bet they'll make some nice cash off this. The emergency is probably the fact that the pot's a bit empty

IT's always a bit puzzling for us French, that abroad, no-one wants an ID. But we got used to it....
I don't have a passport, and even if I have a driving licence, some French don't. But they all have an ID, it's part of the law. It's mandatory. Of course it cost money. But on the other hand, they don't sell paper shredders in France, nor you got adverts for "credit confidential" or identity thief protection programs. It doesn't solve all the problems (since French still pay a lot with their checks books, it definitely doesn't).

In here (GB) if you're not a student, don't own a passport, and can't afford to have a driving exam, what do you do? You can't even buy alcohol
At least I can buy some with my French Identity card, It has always worked.

But that's really a cultural thing, in France. It so normal, that if someone decided to make the ID out-of-law, people would get on strike ...


Just an Edit: For all the people wishing to go abroad from any country in the European Union, you can validate your driving licence with an "internationnal driving permit" that might be free (or little) of charge. This is a driving licence that is writen in many languages (arabic, english, spanish, german, chinese and so on) that enables you to drive cars everywhere EXCEPT in the United States. It is also an acceptable proof of ID for tourists in most parts of the world.

Here is attached the link to the Wikipedia article:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D-mM5G9mBE
Although the list of countries accepting the document is dramatically different of the ones written on my permit.

Hi, Sandrine,

I fully believe that in the US the should be a national identity card, which would identify the person and indicate their citizenship (or immigration) status.

Movements to do this are always resisted, invoking images (mostly from movies) of totalitarian regimes. ("Ihre Papiere, bitte.")

Of course, we have to have that for security and other reasons, so rather than doing it straight on, we have laws that require states to enhance the information on driver licenses so they can sort of do the same thing, without being the hated "identity card".

Best regards,

Doug

It's easy for you when you can have a driving licence at 16 after passing an exam with no mandatory driving courses (AFAIK 25 hours at least for France) in front of an automated machine, that cost $25 (Circulation regulation exam plus a driving in real life exam for the French that cost us around $1500 including the courses, I don't even count if you fail the exam). The ID is cheaper, it's free (paid for the tax-payers money of course)

PS: I must add to this that it's useless since French are not reputed for their peaceful driving

fahim mohammed said:

If a male wearing wearing skirts came to vote carrying a passport, claiming he/she was a Texan..

what would you do?

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Offer him a T-bone steak? (Isn't that what they do in Texas?)

(Stereotype, I know...)

fahim mohammed said:

p.s thats why I space my sentences too! To avoid confusion.

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Well, I am not quite sure about that confusion part. A skirt, you said?

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

As hard as it is to understand for most Europeans, many Americans do not have a passport since they never traveled outside their country.

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I know that. It does still not explain why an official employee checking for voting documents would not be informed about how the official documents look, does it?

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

Even inside Europe (since the Schengen Agreement), the need for a passport is no longer there, an official identity card (or drivers licence in case of local affairs) often suffices.

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You are Dutch, aren't you? The Netherlands do not have i.d. cards. In countries which have i.d. cards, e.g. France or Germany, those could be used within the EU for a long time before Schengen. As a consequence, there are plenty of French citizens who do not have a passport (probably a bit less than US citizens, but not necessarily much less). I did not need one before I was 23 or so.

Sandrine Bascouert said:

But they all have an ID, it's part of the law. It's mandatory. Of course it cost money.

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Actually, it has been free (paid by your taxes) for the last 20 years or so. I just had mine renewed, did not cost anything.

Sandrine Bascouert said:

But on the other hand, they don't sell paper shredders in France.

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Of course they do.

Sandrine Bascouert said:

For all the people wishing to go abroad from any country in the European Union, you can validate your driving licence with an "internationnal driving permit" that might be free (or little) of charge. This is a driving licence that is writen in many languages (arabic, english, spanish, german, chinese and so on) that enables you to drive cars everywhere EXCEPT in the United States. It is also an acceptable proof of ID for tourists in most parts of the world.

Click to expand...

Not at all. You can drive with an EU permit in the US (been there, done that). You do not need an international driving license in the EU and it is never a proof of i.d. The international driving license is only valid together with your national driving license, which may or may not be accepted as a proof of i.d. (that depends on the country).

Now if all you want is buying booze, maybe the international driving license will be accepted by the seller, who just wants an excuse to assume that you are over drinking age. But that is another story.

Pilgrim, say it ain't happening!

Hi, Jerome,

Jerome Marot said:

It does still not explain why an official employee checking for voting documents would not be informed about how the official documents look, does it?

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And I may have been too harsh on our friends, the election clerks (Carla is often one).

We'll be interested to see just how the "training" plays out at the next election.

Best regards,

Doug

Doug Kerr said:

And I may have been too harsh on our friends, the election clerks (Carla is often one).

We'll be interested to see just how the "training" plays out at the next election.

Click to expand...

I am confident that, should Carla be an election clerk, the US passport will be recognized as an official document.

@Jérome
I wasn't accurate on my statement, sorry...

As for shredders: People here buy them for their household needs to destroy cards slips, invoices, papers with names and addresses. I doubt people in France care about destroying evidences because people fear less identity thieves, for good reasons. Companies, shops, etc buy shredders, of course.

ID are free, I said that in my other post (I am old enough to have had to pay for it though) but if you lose it, you have to pay for the renewal, fair enough.

What I said about a proof of identity in the case of the IDP is that not only for booze, but for other purposes as well. Officials tend to accept it as a proof of identity (for a tourist). It happened to me with the police here in UK, it happened with my sister in Bulgaria when there were mere borders. It's not legal per se, just very convenient. The convenience being that it's translated...And honestly, in my case, the constable couldn't care less about my French driving licence or my ID, but the IDP was OK, he recognized it (I wasn't fined at the end, thank you )


On my IDP, it is written that it has no purpose on the US... Not my proper EU driving licence, (because that I don't know, I don't do right side driving )

Sandrine,

If one does not travel outside a very limited number of countries, those that have the relevant mutual agreements amongst themselves, one might not need a passport. Various documents might be tendered in lieu of a passport.

One who has traveled extensively since the age of 15 years, I have had and needed a valid passport to travel to various countries in various continents.

Of course, if one considers the US or EU to be the world, traveling within them might/or might not
require a passport. Again it depends on the agreements between the countries concerned.

Try to visit the People's Republic of China without a passport if you are a citizen of the USA or EU or
anywhere else ( except PRC itself ). Each and every foreign citizen entering the PRC needs a valid passport ( children could be included in a parent's passport ) issued by the relevant authorities in his/her country of citizenship. No exceptions.
And rightfully so.

Please do realize that a passport is not a source document. It is a derivative product.

I have driven ( car ) extensively in Europe including the EU. I need an international driving license, in addition to my national driving license. Needless to say my national driving license contains all relevant information in Arabic.

I have been there and done that. Maybe more than most. And so has my wife. International travel, the both of us know about.

p.s In my vocabulary, 'International' means more than the USA or EU. Some people have a very myopic
understanding of the word ' International '.

I might add that if one pays their required taxes and gets a service, included therein, that is not free.
Free, to me, is what I have in my country. Education, Health, Housing provided. Without deduction of any monies from my salary. The only thing deducted was my contribution to my pension, equally matched by my employer; which I receive now; monthly.

What I was just saying was some kind of piece of advice that I happened to learn sometimes the hard way... No I haven't been the international traveler that you all are, all of you. I haven't been there, I haven't done that. And god, I wish I could. My longest trip so far was to take the plane to land in that country, so it's 1 hour and a half flight when the weather's not nice, or 12 hours driving in my car with all my meagre belongings in the boot, like a "traveler".


And for those who may ask: countries I'd wish to visit are (in no particular order)

-Iran
-United States
-Chile
-Russia
-India
-Japan
-Iceland
-Italy
-Finland
-Mexico
-Sri Lanka
-Latvia
-Serbia and Slovenia

Jerome Marot said:

You are Dutch, aren't you? The Netherlands do not have i.d. cards.

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Yes, I'm Dutch.

FWIW, everybody in the Netherlands from the age of 14 has to show a valid proof of identity when a police officer or other official asks for it. When travelig outside the country one is required to have a valid travel document. All children need their own travel document.

We can choose between a passport and a Dutch identity card. The Dutch identity card is a valid travel document within the European Union.

Cheers,
Bart

Sandrine, I am sorry I referenced you. That was a mistake on my part.
I read about passports and International Driving Permits etc.

It was in response to those collective posts that I was responding to.

Out of your ' want ' to visit countries, I have not visited 7 of them
Out of these 7 I would like to visit only 3. Chile, India, Russia.

My apologies for any misunderstanding or grief I might have caused.

Regards.

No, don't worry...It's those days
I feel more horribly jealous than angry.

Hey! that what retirement is for.... Traveling!
and I can't even think about all the photos I'll make when I'll be there.
Maybe when I'll be retired, there will be no photos anymore, or maybe no retirement anymore.
#

And for the moment Google earth is my friend.

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

We can choose between a passport and a Dutch identity card. The Dutch identity card is a valid travel document within the European Union.

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I stand corrected. I thought there was no i.d. card in the NL (it does not exist in all countries).