Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I ordered this book of the Journey of a Photographic Vision and wonder if anyone else has read it.
Asher
Asher
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Who has read, "Within the Frame?" by David duChemin?
- Thread starter Asher Kelman
- Start date
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Erik,
David is indeed a accomplished photographer and he likes people. This 37 year old calls himself a humanist. His works span pictures of people all over the world. He's got three books in a series. "Within the Frame is the first and already published and well-received. His second book, "Visionmongers" is coming out about now and then the third book is in preparation. Then he'll have a rest!
Asher
Bart_van_der_Wolf
pro member
Hi Asher,
My copy arrived today. I haven't read it yet ;-)
Leafing through the book and reading bits and pieces of it leaves an impression that its a good book for self reflection. David talks to you as if you just met him in a personal encounter. He explains how he views certain aspects of (in particular) travel photography, and gives lots of tips on how to get your vison across. He uses his photgraphs to illustrate what he's talking about, and the quality of the photos ranges from reasonable to excellent (there are very many photos, at least one on every two pages). The emphasis is on what he tells, the photos are a bonus. He doesn't dictate how to do stuff, he just explains why he does it in a certain manner, and it all sounds very logical (when you think about it).
I'll have to read it cover to cover to know if I can really learn something from it, but it does cover a lot of aspects so its a nice resume about what a photographer needs to consider in order to develop and express his vision in an image.
Cheers,
Bart
P.S. There's a quote from Scott Kelby on the back cover that seems to sum it all up nicely:
Scott Kelby said:
Bart_van_der_Wolf
pro member
Bart_van_der_Wolf
pro member
Hi Erik,
It depends on where you buy it, but for example:
http://www.amazon.com/Within-Frame-Journey-Photographic-Vision/dp/0321605020
Cheers,
Bart
Ken Tanaka
pro member
I do not own it but have looked through it. I think it's potentially a constructive study guide that can help many amateurs / camera owners get beyond rote and cliché compositions. To the extent that that might help folks actually think more richly about their use of a camera, and heighten their visual awareness, it's potentially more useful than the usual photo self-help book.
.................
I got this in a e-mail from David....First he asked me to set the record straight on his last name its all one word its duChemin...(I sent him a link to this thread)
I should of told him it was Ashers thread lol now he thinks i screwed up his name....
Secondly he let me know and i'll quote from the e-mail >>>>>>>> I don’t know if you know this but I’ve got 3 eBooks out right now that you might benefit from – you can find them all here - http://www.pixelatedimage.com/store and if you use this code: 3fer20 you can save 20% when you buy all three. Feel free to share that code with your forum if you like.
I think i will have nothing but praise for him in case he's checking this thread lol.....
His work really is amazing and certainly blows mine away!!! What a nice guy though you were very right Asher....I should of invited him to join the forum but he's probably too busy....And i've been writing on the forum walls with crayon again,would'nt want him to see that....Sorry Asher...(Rachel gave me the crayons)
Anywayyyyyy.......So he got to see all the nice comments.... =)
I got this in a e-mail from David....First he asked me to set the record straight on his last name its all one word its duChemin...(I sent him a link to this thread)
I should of told him it was Ashers thread lol now he thinks i screwed up his name....
Secondly he let me know and i'll quote from the e-mail >>>>>>>> I don’t know if you know this but I’ve got 3 eBooks out right now that you might benefit from – you can find them all here - http://www.pixelatedimage.com/store and if you use this code: 3fer20 you can save 20% when you buy all three. Feel free to share that code with your forum if you like.
I think i will have nothing but praise for him in case he's checking this thread lol.....
His work really is amazing and certainly blows mine away!!! What a nice guy though you were very right Asher....I should of invited him to join the forum but he's probably too busy....And i've been writing on the forum walls with crayon again,would'nt want him to see that....Sorry Asher...(Rachel gave me the crayons)
Anywayyyyyy.......So he got to see all the nice comments.... =)
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Well I get that from his website:
In that "DavidduChemin" is all one word, LOL!
At some time past, it had to have evolved from David + duChemin and the latter descended from "du Chemin". If, somehow all this evolution had not occurred, we'd have three less books and a lot less photographs to think about!
Asher
fahim mohammed
Well-known member
I have read David's book. I did not know of him before this purchase. I came to know about this thru
ken Rockwell's site. I try to learn from whatever source.
Any book, music, painting, photograph and such like if it resonates with its respective audience; is a good
offering. For me David's book is one of the best I have perused. Is it or will it be good for you, only you
can decide.
as Bart mentions, David book is like a personal encounter. I learnt that the subject and subject matter
are two different things. I might have known them in a vague sense, but he put it into words and illustrates them with his photographs.
Some have commented here about the book's usefulness for ' amateurs ' or beginners whatever that might mean. I have seen atrocious photographs by so called ' experts ' and pseudo intellects that
do not hold a candle to David's thoughts and illustrations.
I disagree with David on the issue of payment for photographs to the people ( subjects ). I believe sincerely that if one makes or expects to make money selling those photographs than it is only fair and decent that the photographer compensate the subject ( non-model ) with an appropriate monetary amount. A simple print from a poloroid printer is a stingy man's way.
That David does most of his book's photograph's in the so called under developed world to me reflects
the legal barriers that exist in the developed countries and where such encounters would not be tolerated. . It would appear to be comparatively easy to 'hunt' in the poorer countries. As such he is not the only one. Mccurry's famous Afghan girl picture is an example. I wonder how much she was paid!
All these considerations aside, I would recommend David's book to anyone who wants to be a better
photographer and is trying to find his/her photographic vision. Experienced or not, everyone could benefit from this book since only fools and bigots have mastered it all.
ken Rockwell's site. I try to learn from whatever source.
Any book, music, painting, photograph and such like if it resonates with its respective audience; is a good
offering. For me David's book is one of the best I have perused. Is it or will it be good for you, only you
can decide.
as Bart mentions, David book is like a personal encounter. I learnt that the subject and subject matter
are two different things. I might have known them in a vague sense, but he put it into words and illustrates them with his photographs.
Some have commented here about the book's usefulness for ' amateurs ' or beginners whatever that might mean. I have seen atrocious photographs by so called ' experts ' and pseudo intellects that
do not hold a candle to David's thoughts and illustrations.
I disagree with David on the issue of payment for photographs to the people ( subjects ). I believe sincerely that if one makes or expects to make money selling those photographs than it is only fair and decent that the photographer compensate the subject ( non-model ) with an appropriate monetary amount. A simple print from a poloroid printer is a stingy man's way.
That David does most of his book's photograph's in the so called under developed world to me reflects
the legal barriers that exist in the developed countries and where such encounters would not be tolerated. . It would appear to be comparatively easy to 'hunt' in the poorer countries. As such he is not the only one. Mccurry's famous Afghan girl picture is an example. I wonder how much she was paid!
All these considerations aside, I would recommend David's book to anyone who wants to be a better
photographer and is trying to find his/her photographic vision. Experienced or not, everyone could benefit from this book since only fools and bigots have mastered it all.
............
Fahim....In Davids defense....If i had to stop everyone that i took pictures of when out in public and try to get contact information from them i would get a LOT less done....General model rate varies but about $75.00 a hour is reasonable...So then a frame or two taken in a matter of minutes and who knows if it will get you anything and whats fair for a few minutes of time??....
I'm just saying....Contacting the subject can be hard if not impossible. There are a lot of variables....I understand your point but its not always practicle....I have a book project i'm working on....If i had to contact everyone i have shot and compensate them some amount so on and so fourth i would just shelf it...I would'nt even bother....In fact a number of books would never get published if as you were saying was followed....And we would not have magazines like National Geographic......
Fahim....In Davids defense....If i had to stop everyone that i took pictures of when out in public and try to get contact information from them i would get a LOT less done....General model rate varies but about $75.00 a hour is reasonable...So then a frame or two taken in a matter of minutes and who knows if it will get you anything and whats fair for a few minutes of time??....
I'm just saying....Contacting the subject can be hard if not impossible. There are a lot of variables....I understand your point but its not always practicle....I have a book project i'm working on....If i had to contact everyone i have shot and compensate them some amount so on and so fourth i would just shelf it...I would'nt even bother....In fact a number of books would never get published if as you were saying was followed....And we would not have magazines like National Geographic......
Ken Tanaka
pro member
Meaning me.
By "amateurs or beginners" I mean just that: amateurs and beginners.
Your observation of candle-holders notwithstanding, the vast majority of camera owners land solidly in ruts. Browse Flicker for confirmation. Youngsters taking social snaps of their lives. Upon mating and breeding they then take snaps of their kids. Perhaps later, or along the way, they snap their travels. But their cameras' lenses see little else before being stored or sold. They also see very few variations in these genres, regardless in gear investment. Same subjects, same framings.
That's all fine. Just fine. But cameras offer far broader and richer possibilities to their owners, whether or not they're interested in exploring them.
So my point was simplythat this is a book that can help jostle "amateurs and beginners" out of those common ruts. Specifically, I wrote:
Ken Tanaka said:
That's what I wrote, but I didn't intend to be a "pseudo-intellectual".
fahim mohammed
Well-known member
Erik, I am told that David does a lot of work with World Vision. Admirable work. There are many ways to share your earnings with those that participated in your earnings.
To raise the consciousness of the world at large of the plight and misery of the unfortunate, if done sincerely and humbly, is also a form of payback to those that participated in ones undertaking.
However, something being impractical is not a justification for depriving weaker people of the fair compensation due them. I doubt, in the developed world , one could publish a photograph of a recognizable person for commercial gain without the subject either getting paid, model release forms signed and or waiving their rights to compensation in writing.
Regards.
To raise the consciousness of the world at large of the plight and misery of the unfortunate, if done sincerely and humbly, is also a form of payback to those that participated in ones undertaking.
However, something being impractical is not a justification for depriving weaker people of the fair compensation due them. I doubt, in the developed world , one could publish a photograph of a recognizable person for commercial gain without the subject either getting paid, model release forms signed and or waiving their rights to compensation in writing.
Regards.
...............
Well Fahim one example is anything in public is just that and not needing a release...If i shot a woman on the street and published that image in a book i do not need her signature...
Personally...I worked with a model,Jordan for 3 years...I built a series of limited edition images based on her native back ground called her Heritage series...The images are insanely popular...I could of given her like $20.00 per print sale which would add up to a lot over time...I didnt...Instead I am giving her 75% of the print sale....So you wont be calling me stingy any time soon....And generally a model is paid a flat rate NOT a percentage at all...
But again....There are a lot of variables....I take it you have a lot of exp. in selling prints and dealing with people and models like this?
And i will add in that as theres no emotion to this its not ment in a abrasive kind of way. I hope you know this Fahim....
Some people have no interest in the comphensation aspect...They would be very happy just to have THEIR image published...
Well Fahim one example is anything in public is just that and not needing a release...If i shot a woman on the street and published that image in a book i do not need her signature...
Personally...I worked with a model,Jordan for 3 years...I built a series of limited edition images based on her native back ground called her Heritage series...The images are insanely popular...I could of given her like $20.00 per print sale which would add up to a lot over time...I didnt...Instead I am giving her 75% of the print sale....So you wont be calling me stingy any time soon....And generally a model is paid a flat rate NOT a percentage at all...
But again....There are a lot of variables....I take it you have a lot of exp. in selling prints and dealing with people and models like this?
And i will add in that as theres no emotion to this its not ment in a abrasive kind of way. I hope you know this Fahim....
Some people have no interest in the comphensation aspect...They would be very happy just to have THEIR image published...
Mike Shimwell
New member
Erik, I think Fahim's point here is that Davd's pictures are of weaker, and oftern disenfranchised, people. Making money from such pictures, wthout being willing to share some of that starts to feel a bit like exploitation/ Now, we don't really know very much about David's personal approach, apart from his statement that he doesn't pay models. he may give back in other ways, but Fahim's point is that we should give back in these circumstances.
Photography on the street in the developed world does feel a bit different - there is no right to privacy in a public place and most of us don't make significant income from it. If there were a right to privacy it would be abused by more than few I imagine.
Model work in the west is again different, although there are a lot of concerns about exploitation if dig a bit deeper.
Mike
fahim mohammed
Well-known member
No Erik, I have never sold a print in my life. Just as I was not born during the French revolution, but know something about it, so it is with me and knowing a little about model releases etc.
Photographing anything in a public places is subject to different laws depending on the countries concerned and the nature and intended use of the photographs. Some countries allow the use of photographs in public places for example for editorial purposes. The same countries might require some sort of permission/s for using photographs for commercial purposes.
Even public buildings cannot be photographed except for personal use. Commercial use might require
a license. Eiffel Tower at night is one such instance. many European countries do not allow photographing people in a public place as a right.
Photographing children in a public place is fraught with parental, legal and even criminal issues.
Just because some people might feel elated to have their pictures published in no way invalidates my original point.
In the end, I believe one should follow one's conscience in such matters specially if there is no specific law pertaining to such an endeavor. I personally would tend to follow my conscience in such matters
even if my actions were in accordance with the law in the first instance.
Lastly Erik, Jordan certainly would never think of you as stingy.
Regards.
Photographing anything in a public places is subject to different laws depending on the countries concerned and the nature and intended use of the photographs. Some countries allow the use of photographs in public places for example for editorial purposes. The same countries might require some sort of permission/s for using photographs for commercial purposes.
Even public buildings cannot be photographed except for personal use. Commercial use might require
a license. Eiffel Tower at night is one such instance. many European countries do not allow photographing people in a public place as a right.
Photographing children in a public place is fraught with parental, legal and even criminal issues.
Just because some people might feel elated to have their pictures published in no way invalidates my original point.
In the end, I believe one should follow one's conscience in such matters specially if there is no specific law pertaining to such an endeavor. I personally would tend to follow my conscience in such matters
even if my actions were in accordance with the law in the first instance.
Lastly Erik, Jordan certainly would never think of you as stingy.
Regards.
fahim mohammed
Well-known member
....................
Sorry i did want to add just one thing to this...No one here aparently knows David duChemin....No one then knows exactly what he does with his subjects, the full extent of how he handles them or any compensation....Note i said the Full extent.....Unless you have direct access to his bank statements and know his work and what he does with all his money and time and efforts anything said here is purely speculation..We should praise him for what we do know to be fact and thats that he works hard to help and be a contributing factor in the well being of others...
Sorry i did want to add just one thing to this...No one here aparently knows David duChemin....No one then knows exactly what he does with his subjects, the full extent of how he handles them or any compensation....Note i said the Full extent.....Unless you have direct access to his bank statements and know his work and what he does with all his money and time and efforts anything said here is purely speculation..We should praise him for what we do know to be fact and thats that he works hard to help and be a contributing factor in the well being of others...
Bart_van_der_Wolf
pro member
Hi Eric,
In David's book that's the subject of this thread there is a chapter called "On giving and taking". It describes his view on the matter (as one of many other matters in travel photography), and he recognizes that the subject is hotly debated by photographers. He describes how he compensates his subjects for the time away from their tasks. He concludes the chapter with: "Still, it is rare that I pay. I would much sooner give back in other ways", and he describes some of those.
Cheers,
Bart
.........
Bart my names is spelled with a K....Erik....
And yes he describes some of those ways but to what extent and what he does we wont know...All i'm saying is a lot of speculation is cast here....It would be better to give him the benefit of the doubt which is what i prefer to do....
Bart my names is spelled with a K....Erik....
And yes he describes some of those ways but to what extent and what he does we wont know...All i'm saying is a lot of speculation is cast here....It would be better to give him the benefit of the doubt which is what i prefer to do....
Rachel Foster
New member
This book sounds fascinating.
On the question of compensating people one photographs, I do not like shooting people without permission. I posted one of people in silhouette in the distance just today and that's a rarity for me. I'm not saying it is wrong, I just have a quirk about that.
On the question of compensating people one photographs, I do not like shooting people without permission. I posted one of people in silhouette in the distance just today and that's a rarity for me. I'm not saying it is wrong, I just have a quirk about that.