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Modeling Wiki : The Conquest Of Ego & Alter Ego In Perfromance Modelling V1.0

John Kok

New member


Dear Friends



I have just completed an advanced guide on the relation between ego and performance portrait modelling.

In my guide we talk about the more abstract aspect of modelling dealing with an intrinsic Factor X which may not directly be quantified but it can be shown through some methods of testing.

In conciser words, Factor X is a measure of effective communication to others the information of “WHO YOU ARE” expressed though photo or any other mediums of expression.



Effectively speaking, there are two strategies when it comes to the development of factor X

1 ) Create An Alter Ego ( Quick )

2 ) Self Identification & Acceptance ( Long Term )



The Identification And Conquest Of Alter Ego & True Ego In Performance Modelling is elaborated in detail with the aid of illustrations at http://famecherry.com/models/conquest-of-ego/



In my effort to better understand the human condition, I have spent 12 months gathering raw data in a standardized scientific manner. The creation of this guide is one of the practical applications based on the analytical results from the data that I have collected. Although I would admit that my work is still in its infancy, I hope that my guide would be helpful for you.

Should you have any feedback on my work please let me know, it would mean a lot to me and it will aid countless models and photographers who have an interest in portraiture.

Thank you very much
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Oh hello there John.
Welcome back..

May, 19, 2011 I had responded to your thread here

Are you folks involved in a modelling agency, teaching institution or what?
I do find your essay interesting, a little heavy reading for me though.

But as a personal opinion, I believe that modelling ( men and women ) and being one self are mutually exclusive. I also believe that such expectations are self contradictory. Modelling is done for a purpose. The model as such is playing a part. They are paid not be their self. The photographer's responsibility lies in making sure that the shoot is per the client's requests and serves the clients purpose. Just my opinion.

For what are your models modelling for?

Anyways, thanks for sharing.

p.s I think you missed my post in your thread I have referred.

Regards.
 

John Kok

New member
Oh hello there John.
Welcome back..

May, 19, 2011 I had responded to your thread here

Are you folks involved in a modelling agency, teaching institution or what?
I do find your essay interesting, a little heavy reading for me though.

But as a personal opinion, I believe that modelling ( men and women ) and being one self are mutually exclusive. I also believe that such expectations are self contradictory. Modelling is done for a purpose. The model as such is playing a part. They are paid not be their self. The photographer's responsibility lies in making sure that the shoot is per the client's requests and serves the clients purpose. Just my opinion.

For what are your models modelling for?

Anyways, thanks for sharing.

p.s I think you missed my post in your thread I have referred.

Regards.


Hello Fahim



My research is mainly for intellectual purposes

Well, nowadays there are a growing number of photographers who mainly take up photography as a hobby so when we consider photography as a hobby then it ultimately translates into artmaking or self gratification =P

We hire a lot of models on a regular basis so I am in an opportune position to be able to observe certain patterns in successful models of which i feel should be emulated and preserved

Hence this article =)



As for what the models are modelling for, the answer can be as long or as short as you can imagine =P
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
But the site you link to advertises paraphernalia. Besides other sundry wares.
If it would be your personal website fine; but to be honest I feel you are driving traffic to a commercial
site.

I take photos. No models or modelling. Maybe you could find the ' self ' or the ' x ' factor and how I approach it.

Just one person's way to get the ' X ' and ' Y ' zen.

Thanks for sharing the images.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Jon, I don't know where you got your research info from but I fear most of it might have come from tabloid magazines. There is little here which has any sort of standing in current neuroscience and behavioral science studies. This is popular rubbish and would make a good read on page 3 of Pop Scene or some such.
Cheers
Tom
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Not "Piffle", therefore purpose needed!

John,

I'm taking this on face value and not, at the moment, considering that the posts are merely devices to pull traffic to your website. Assuming that, here's my critique!



IMG_14111.jpg
[/url]​


I like it, it''s fun! With just this, and no title, I'd say the picture's from the cranking up of a shoot and getting the lights right and not some serious end product for a client. It does show that you know how to use a camera and get a good-looking woman to visit your studio and be your model! John, her pose is empty! She does appear to be posing holding the sword for you but has not adopted any role that we might believe! Her face is blank! Is she holding it at a position where she wants the wall painted white perhaps or where she'd like you to shoot from? We've no clues! That face should tell us something! Women in sports or action have expressions that imply effort and concentration. Beyond that, I have no idea if it's any good, because, unlike untitled "Piffle" it does need a declared purpose for us to fathom whether or not it's effective!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I have just completed an advanced guide on the relation between ego and performance portrait modelling.

In my guide we talk about the more abstract aspect of modelling dealing with an intrinsic Factor X which may not directly be quantified but it can be shown through some methods of testing.

In conciser words, Factor X is a measure of effective communication to others the information of “WHO YOU ARE” expressed though photo or any other mediums of expression.

Effectively speaking, there are two strategies when it comes to the development of factor X

1 ) Create An Alter Ego ( Quick )

2 ) Self Identification & Acceptance ( Long Term )



The Identification And Conquest Of Alter Ego & True Ego In Performance Modelling is elaborated in detail with the aid of illustrations at http://famecherry.com/models/conquest-of-ego/



In my effort to better understand the human condition, I have spent 12 months gathering raw data in a standardized scientific manner. The creation of this guide is one of the practical applications based on the analytical results from the data that I have collected. Although I would admit that my work is still in its infancy ........................

John,

As both a trained scientist and an experienced specialist physician, let me tell you that all this "ego", "super-ego" and and "Y factor" terms are nonsensical! You are not dealing with neurotic Jewish women in 19th and early 20th Century Vienna or later New York, LOL! There's more reality in dinosaurs and dodo birds, as we have thousands of their genuine bones on show in museums around the world! Ego and superego are now merely the surviving literary, humanistic and cultural pseudoscientific debris left over from Freud's intensive investigation, (showing "talking medicine works"), but his mechanistic inferences have proven to be largely fallacious! As to psychoanalysis it's admittedly quite helpful in some neurotic illnesses, but no better than the empathetic attention of any nurse, social worker or other responsible human being able listen and to invest time, patience and acceptance in that troubled person so they can, at times, reset, their own emotions and idiosyncratic behaviors.

Doubtless, you've a lot to share for both photographers, (wishing to acquire confidence, techniques and skills) and models, (who need to gets useful hints to start out or improve their portfolios). However, presenting your offerings as "scientific" in the manner you have shared right now, is at the very least, both disingenuous and delusional. I'd remove all references to ego, superego and X or Y factors and use common terms with no pretense. Your work, on the face of it, seems good enough and why not have a go of it!

Asher
 

John Kok

New member
fahim mohammed : In gentle honesty, your traffic is irrelevant to our operations.

feel free to hit up Alexa next time before u make such a serious accusation on anyone else again ya

I share what i know out of generosity and an interest to to learn, you may take part in it or not, ultimately its your freedom, u have nothing i dont already have except your point of view



Tom : I disagree but thanks =)



Asher : Yes, this is the reply I am waiting for, thank you !!! =)

I have just one question

Based on your experience and knowledge, is it possible for us to determine the direction or alter our personality to how we want ourselves to be ?


But yes I am a trained scientist also, just a not very experienced one yet =P
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Asher : Yes, this is the reply I am waiting for, thank you !!! =)

I have just one question

Based on your experience and knowledge, is it possible for us to determine the direction or alter our personality to how we want ourselves to be ?

John,

Personality is a complex outcome of genetic, epigenetic and environmental factors. By the time of surge of hormones in the teens and the entrance to adulthood, personality has mostly been defined for the past decade or so of a person's life! That part can't be changed readily. However, one can learn to do things, by rote repetition in the army, (like scream while charging and bayoneting a dummy, for months on end until one can kill another person), but one's core toolbox and tuning reactions are not changed and the brain gets psychologically wounded in the process! So apart from training in charm school, pretending to be patient and the like, learning to negotiate different social situations, we merely hide or disguise our responses to situations and opportunities, according to the social rules in force and one's conscience. Still, for all this overlay of new behaviors, one's core personality does not change!

As has been suggested above, act is if they had a different persona in order to satisfy the demands of the job. So they can tease, act demur, reserved, innocent, embarrassed, angry, lost, be playful, coquettish, distant or arrogant all at your request! However, this is just a skill pf pretense and disguise, which all humans have, but which they have developed as an art form and as an accepted means of earning a living! As a photographer, best get an experienced model and explain what you want and need for the shoot. If necessary, be prepared to show what you want either from a picture, a drawing or act it out. If you can't do this, then you can't really use the models to their fullest extent.

I hope this might help you modify your course, so you are able to offer something of value and not depend on use of supposed or claimed "science" to back up your approach. That's not at all necessary and also could make you appear dishonest, uneducated or both. I'd work out first exactly what it that you know that's really unique and worth being transferred to others. See if you can make it really simple, first by listing all the photography skills that need to be covered for both model and photographer. After that, check out what books are already available and what's for free online.

What's your goal in this? To improve your own pictures, get satisfaction at teaching or just to have something to sell to would be "masters of modeling"? Perhaps if you shared what was the goal of the picture with the "lady holding the sword", we could suggest where your efforts should be directed at this stage. That would be a great starting point!


But yes I am a trained scientist also, just a not very experienced one yet =P

What kind of science are you trained in and what kind of data are you using in this project on models? If you realized the answer would be foolish, we don't have to address that further, just focus on what exactly your motivations are and whether you yourself would like help in your own work.

Asher
 

John Kok

New member
John,

Personality is a complex outcome of genetic, epigenetic and environmental factors. By the time of surge of hormones in the teens and the entrance to adulthood, personality has mostly been defined for the past decade or so of a person's life! That part can't be changed readily. However, one can learn to do things, by rote repetition in the army, (like scream while charging and bayoneting a dummy, for months on end until one can kill another person), but one's core toolbox and tuning reactions are not changed and the brain gets psychologically wounded in the process! So apart from training in charm school, pretending to be patient and the like, learning to negotiate different social situations, we merely hide or disguise our responses to situations and opportunities, according to the social rules in force and one's conscience. Still, for all this overlay of new behaviors, one's core personality does not change!

As has been suggested above, act is if they had a different persona in order to satisfy the demands of the job. So they can tease, act demur, reserved, innocent, embarrassed, angry, lost, be playful, coquettish, distant or arrogant all at your request! However, this is just a skill pf pretense and disguise, which all humans have, but which they have developed as an art form and as an accepted means of earning a living! As a photographer, best get an experienced model and explain what you want and need for the shoot. If necessary, be prepared to show what you want either from a picture, a drawing or act it out. If you can't do this, then you can't really use the models to their fullest extent.

I hope this might help you modify your course, so you are able to offer something of value and not depend on use of supposed or claimed "science" to back up your approach. That's not at all necessary and also could make you appear dishonest, uneducated or both. I'd work out first exactly what it that you know that's really unique and worth being transferred to others. See if you can make it really simple, first by listing all the photography skills that need to be covered for both model and photographer. After that, check out what books are already available and what's for free online.

What's your goal in this? To improve your own pictures, get satisfaction at teaching or just to have something to sell to would be "masters of modeling"? Perhaps if you shared what was the goal of the picture with the "lady holding the sword", we could suggest where your efforts should be directed at this stage. That would be a great starting point!




What kind of science are you trained in and what kind of data are you using in this project on models? If you realized the answer would be foolish, we don't have to address that further, just focus on what exactly your motivations are and whether you yourself would like help in your own work.

Asher



Something happened which allowed me to successfully alter the course of my personality

Since then I have been obsessively interested in what i have experienced and I have decided to spend my life researching this, to understand it further and perhaps design systematic ways to replicate it

Photography to me is a data gathering tool to help me achieve my goals, in all my photographs i only record information which is of interest for me

I have decided to devote a great portion of my life for this, just that i am worried if one lifetime is enough

But everyone knows what a stubborn ass i am so maybe i have a chance after all =P
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
fahim mohammed : In gentle honesty, your traffic is irrelevant to our operations.

feel free to hit up Alexa next time before u make such a serious accusation on anyone else again ya

I share what i know out of generosity and an interest to to learn, you may take part in it or not, ultimately its your freedom, u have nothing i dont already have except your point of view....

.....

Then please do not link to a commercial site. It is not an accusation, serious or otherwise. Just a fact.
And who the piffle is Alexa? Someone I Know? I generally don't forget people I meet and neither do they!!
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
John Kok:

I know for sure you wanted me to visit the commercial
Site for which you provided a link. Unless all your writing was in jest.

Regards.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Something happened which allowed me to successfully alter the course of my personality

"Saul of Tarsus " moments don't count for much in this discussion! You claimed "science" was behind your work and I told you why this seems a foolish stance. Still, you haven't shared any so-called data and "methods", never mind those that might be deemed, "scientific". Still, I'm patient since it could be that if you do change by being open, then you might learn something of the matter and have work to share with others. :)

Since then I have been obsessively interested in what i have experienced and I have decided to spend my life researching this, to understand it further and perhaps design systematic ways to replicate it

Photography to me is a data gathering tool to help me achieve my goals, in all my photographs i only record information which is of interest for me

I have decided to devote a great portion of my life for this, just that i am worried if one lifetime is enough

Well so far you've not addressed any of my questions so it seems like I'm just talking to the wind!

But everyone knows what a stubborn ass i am so maybe i have a chance after all =P

Well that stubbornness in not communicating could lead you to being one of the rarest photographers we ever come across: those why get allowed in the front door and welcomed and then end up getting banned! I've written to you privately for responses to my questions. This website is for folks who are open to communication and exchange. You are presenting a one-way discourse and make us feel that you are convinced you have some messianic quality message for successful posing for photography. Frankly, from your one picture of the lady with the sword, I'd doubt that capability! You'd benefit from declaring your goals for that picture, so folk here can know what on earth your pictures might be for; and then listening a little to feedback and being open!

As a fixed-minded fellow, (with what appear like delusions of holding some key to competence and success), your work might be better seen as just huckstering. We don't want to turn you away, but to be here, you have to be willing to contribute and you do that by responding to the free exchange we offer. So far, you have done the opposite!

So OPF being kind, you have one more chance to demonstrate that you are able to participate in this community.

Asher
 

John Kok

New member
Asher : Sorry for causing you the trouble, after interacting with you I know you are a good person

I have sent you a private message


haha yeah you are right, after rereading i do realize i am a lil bit one sided too, wait a sec lemme go thru ur questions
 

John Kok

New member
What's your goal in this? To improve your own pictures, get satisfaction at teaching or just to have something to sell to would be "masters of modeling"?

Its more of a personal goal than anything but its more towards the intellectual side


Perhaps if you shared what was the goal of the picture with the "lady holding the sword", we could suggest where your efforts should be directed at this stage. That would be a great starting point!

The picture captured the moment which tells something about the character the model is playing during the shoot, all the photos captured are little moments of the shoot of which after combined all these little moments will become a full fledged character

This is the data gathering method i used for the data gathering phase of my work

I know my method works better in video so currently i am working on video now too
 

John Kok

New member
What kind of science are you trained in and what kind of data are you using in this project on models? If you realized the answer would be foolish, we don't have to address that further, just focus on what exactly your motivations are and whether you yourself would like help in your own work.

as u suggested, I prefer not to address this further haha
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
John,

Your can continue to post own pictures for comment, if you are serious about reaching some goal for your photography and receiving feedback, not anything that feeds into your modeling projects. So, please don't post any further references or links to this modeling wiki or the related sites, as it's all so far beyond the interest of OPF. Inferences, schemata or discussions to enabling folk to master secrets of photography or modeling are not appropriate for your posting here.

Otherwise, great pictures are welcome, as long as the TOS are followed.

Asher
 
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